Undead sucks. But a slight boost makes 40% of the server pick it.
Undead sucks. But a slight boost makes 40% of the server pick it.
Without a kd mate to feed you solds it's not always possible to do anything just by yourself, hence a decent kd is required as well, plus a good kingdom there'll be somebody paying attention for you when you need to sleep and to call you when you're needed.Originally Posted by nameisis
The whole idea IS that they should burn themselves out so yes, but it needs to be balanced so it doesn't happen too fast.
Avian as suggested is unbalanced IF you can handle the attacktime, not so much if you can't. Adding ambush immunity without adding another near crippling penalty is a horrible horrible idea.
Avian already caters to the active players, the boost they need shouldn't be one that capitalizes on an ability that's already required. It should be something more general in nature.
You create something that is unplayable to nearly all players but ridiculously broken for those who can, that's a downright stupid idea.
Why do you think Godly is gonna play Avian with the suggested changes? ;)
Considering he will bend the rules into pretzels to get an advantage and even outright break them sometimes it shouldn't be hard to guess...
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I'd play Avian next age if I were playing.
Hello,
i have a question regarding the proposed changes
Human
+ 20% Offensive Military Efficiency
Every 3 acres generates 1 book of science
- 20% battle gains
Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet
Elite: 6/3, 750, 5.75NW
Orc
+30% Attack Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking
-20% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Reflect Magic, Clear Sight
Elite: 7/1, 750gc, 6NW
One has - 20% battle gain and the other +30% attack gains.
- These 2 terms used here are one and the same? And if not, does the -20% gain covers for all type of attacks?
Last edited by marinzo; 25-08-2015 at 10:39.
Yes. All attacks. (Trad, learn, mass, etc). But I don't think it affects honor gained from the attacks.
gains mods, in the past, have not been coded to impact massacre or raze.
But they should be topsy....
I just need to say, I do hate ToG being only merchants. I guess its needed, but I don't like it.
I disagree with how much people say avian is still not a viable attacker. That extra general... with warrior would be pretty brutal. I think I personally would still pair it with sage but that is because sage remains OP.
To be clear, I will say it AGAIN. If mystic only gives +50% channel science, then sage bonus should not be stronger than 25%. If you want sages to have 40, then mystic needs a buff (and rogue). Also that would be some other buffs to the other personalities. I think it is easier to nerf sage to 25-30%, but thats just me I guess.
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
Mystics and rogues have buffs...
The ops for one is massive (MS and AW and Prop)
The +mana/stealth is also huge.
For a warring kd -- mystic and rogues easily top sage. Easily.
You see...all sage gets is the +40%. That's it. Granted, that's to all sciences...but that's building space of 15%-20% libraries
The bonuses on mystic and rogue include 10-15% build space from guilds and tds...they also gain mana/stealth which isn't something buildings can do, they also gain ops which isn't something buildings can do, and they still get the higher science bonus than save for their specific specialty.
No...their sci bonuses don't "need" to increase...
Drop their guilds/tds bonuses and yeah boost that science. Drop their mana/stealth and boost it even more.
That said, I think each personality should have their respective sci buff that outclasses sage.
Like merch +75% income science.
Tactician +50% tools science
Cleric +100% food science
War hero +50% pop science
Warrior +50% mil science
Something Along those lines would keep sage with a specialty of versatility, but not allowing them to ever outclass a personality specifically on their main role.
Last edited by smercjd; 25-08-2015 at 15:56.
I kind of like that idea of science benefits for every different personality.
I think War Hero needs something more... They have a lot of interesting little side benefits.. but they are missing that one ability that actually makes them useable.
I come from a warring kingdom that usually ends in the top 10 honour.. and we tank dragons quite often. You would think War Hero would be a great personality for us.. but no it is still just unusable because the benefits from other personalities give instant use and instant reward. I think that War Hero needs to get the +1 offense spec. That way it synergizes with the spec to leet conversion well. Still not sure that would make War Hero Viable.. but it would be a good direction.
What if War hero's were able to have the ability: "May use peasants for offensive attacks and Dragon Killing, peasants used this way are treated as a 1/1 soldier (2/2 if halfer, and aggression affects them)" and "All peasants used this way die in combat"
That would be a very cool and neat ability. So basically it allows a War Hero to protect their armies somewhat from overpopulating by releasing peasants in a combat role (via attack or even dragon).
It would have to be balanced in a way that isn't OP. But realistically War Hero needs something that makes them a little overpowered or else they wont be chosen, because almost every other personality has a ridiculously overpowered ability in it. We just dont think of it as OP because we are so used to seeing them used, like Rogue/Mystic/Sage.. they have some really OP abilities and spells and ops in there, but we are just like.. well it is the typical mage personality so it is OK, or it is the typical rogue personality so it is OK.
So yes, these peasants can be used to boost an attack, or to slay dragon. It helps to reduce overpop damage. It has neat interactions with Halfling racials and Aggression.
I think it would be neat (but maybe too overpowered) but since your peasants all die in battle, perhaps they die first (before off specs/leets etc) or somehow protect against losses to your other troops (maybe not 100% protection, but maybe every 2 peasants used in combat protect 1 offensive spec or elite unit from dying).
It sounds powerful, so can be tweaked, but dont forget, it also can really really hurt your economy, so there is a balance. Yes peasants come back automatically every tick, but it hurts your income.. it leaves room for an enemy to put chastity on you and essentially nullify your use of 1 of your personality traits. So there are Pro's and Cons to it.. like every good personality should have.
I think it encourages eventful strategies, and I think neat little interactions that players can explore are what makes the game interesting.
Last edited by jmiedema; 25-08-2015 at 17:46.
I could not disagree with you more. Sages having higher mod wpa than most mystics I have seen even in the top is disgusting..... (not me, I know what I am doing, but the number of top 10 KD's last age with mystics lower in mod wpa than core sages was truly shocking). The same is true with mod tpa. If you think sages need something to balance a drop in their 40% down to 25%, fine, then give them double libs bonus (kinda like what Rogues have now.... Thats fair right?
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
The War Hero
+100% Honor Effects
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon effects
Immune to Greed
+50% War Science
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites
Um, that is because the Mystics is not researching their science into Channeling. I am playing a Rogue and I have higher WPA than some other mystics.
Just give the +1 ospec to War Hero, as someone suggested.
Avian is only for that top whoring KD. Best example in recent time is the age that Pyro Crowned. Most thought Avian was going to be awesome, but Pyro won with weak dwarf/sage (sage was 30% and dwarf was 25% BE) + weak Orc (25% gains) tacts/ and one Avian and two UD Tacts.
And CR won b2b2b with Elf WH + Halfer Rogues + Orc clerics against 3 Avian cores.
I would only recommend the #1 whoring/randoming KD to go Avian since the whole idea behind Avians is to be land fat and there can only be one KD that is the biggest. I suppose Godly thinks his KD is better than Emeriti /BB's.
For the warring tier, Orcs is probably still the best pure attacker.
SAGE is only strong for whoring KDs because of the way CFs are set up to allow them to pump with very few military. And the way CFs are set up is directly related to the # of KDs competing for land crown. Less competitors for that crown directly translate to more time spent pumping.
For warring tier, SAGE KDs need a snowball effect from winning early wars. If you KD isn't so confident about winning early wars, best go with another personality.
sigh.
No it is because "science begets science"
No one invests in only one thing. A sage will always be knocking on the mystic's door because when they invest in the top three, they are able to boost their rate and then invest heavier in the bottom three until they are investing as heavily or more heavily than mystics/rogues in the bottom three. 40% is too strong. If you don't understand that, then whatever......
It does not really matter that much to me, if sages are the way they are, then thats what we will end up playing again and everyone will call us bullies again, etc etc.
/me shrugs.
**edit**
Do this experiment.....
Consider a mystic investing at (likely) active science under whatever you think the optimal investment is. Now, take sage, invest its opening 40k books into 15K alchemy, 15K pop, 10K tools. Then set that sage to intensive. Run the sim one week with the sage investing evenly between the top three and the bottom three. Then tell me where their science is and then tell me, sage is not overpowered. ....
Last edited by Sheister; 26-08-2015 at 00:07.
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
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