Sheister vs Sampuan

[s7ark]

one theory claims that FS is deliberately set up for long wars. another says fs wants to force a nw auto win and wastes pyro's time in the process. so which is it?

[yuuume]

We understand the warring tier philosophy just fine. It is flawed. If you think honor is not relevant I guess you haven't been playing the last few ages? The honor crown is far more sought after than the WW crown. And most of the last few ages honor crown has been decided by acres, YOU being one of them. So eat your unlimited waves and tell me you're going to crown.

Are you talking to FATstrat or FS? Are you confusing him for us? Either way, wow, that is some hate.

You'll lose your acres, military, resources, honor, science, and time. If you try to run to another war there is no rule that says they have to stop, so really is it all worth it? I don't think your kd is so short sighted that you look at 1 war at a time and don't look at age goal. Maybe you expected more kindness and sympathy out of Pyro after dragging them around trying to force NW win... I wouldn't have.

Are you all still thinking we were forcing nw win? Please. You've all played uto for so long and talk so much crap on these forums, but you can't look at a war and see it for what it was? There was no dragging for no reason, we were playing to win. There would have been no forced nw win because the nw gap was closing. We shouldn't expect kindness nor sympathy, just common decency.

[StratOcastle]

If I had to guess, and I've only had two wars to compare, I think it was FS moving to learn/mass/raze vs Pyro taunting that created the bad situation. These things weren't quite related, but one thing leads to another. The FS path to victory coincided with the taunting so was seen as greifing more than a strategic tunnel.

To reflect, Pyros war with Green was fairly clean of alternative attack types. Trad march was the exclusive form of combat. Since I have limited experience in this tier it appeared people play nice. Efficient, but nice. I made this assumption on some of the disdain I'd seen pointed at Sparta, who I know war with all attack types. Thus, my impression was that Pyro was angry with the tactics because they read them as classless, in this event.

In the wars I'm in there is generally the chained razed/massed/learned guys at the bottom. Palem was victim to this in TFC and all was taken in stride and barely noticed. I've been run over by Sparta myself with a full array of dismantling attacks. In my travels I've payed attention to who wars all out and try to warn the kingdom I'm in to button up properly. As an individual I battle to stay out of these situations but I love the wars. They are a true test with a high price on failure.

Perhaps we felt the war would be fought with a level of pageantry, without the asterisk on the Green victory. As long as acres were being traded I think things were cool. I can see where talking these things out could be misinterpreted as FW.
I'm suggesting, or asking, is there a silent code in top war regarding learn/mass/raze? I know they occur, but maybe only at the main leverage points?

[MyNameIsMatija]

What code? It's war, anything goes, it's whoring tier that looks to gain land and sees everything else as griefing. Why are people trying to simplify this game to Trade Marching and nothing else? Oh wait, is it because they don't know how to utilize other forms of strategy? That surely can't be it, the mighty Pyro, with experience in both warring in whoring!? I guess even the trolls are right sometimes, Pyro is nothing without CJ.

[jmiedema]

If I had to guess, and I've only had two wars to compare, I think it was FS moving to learn/mass/raze vs Pyro taunting that created the bad situation.

A. Razes in war destroy buildings.. how is that Bad Manners or creating of a bad situation?
B. To my knowledge not a single learn was done after you guys posted about it on what.. day 3? The total amount of books we gains was.. 300k? that is the sum total of about 1/4 of what one of your provinces has. Yea.. some malicious.
C. Yes we did massacres. The only win condition we had for the war could basically be summed up as we had more thieves and wizards than you guys did, AND you guys were feeding your chained attackers/halfers runes to ET our rogues.. so of course we Massacred just enough to make those ET's stop so we could focus on our rogue advantage. Again.. not malicious or bad manners, and wizards train back really quickly now in EoWCF.

I do however agree that Bombdige and co coming on the forums and raising hell for no real reason started this bad situation. i do not see how that is FS's fault. All we were doing was trying to win a war. We in fact chose not to respond all that much when all this crap was started in the first place by Bombdige we actually had an order go out saying "Do not post on forums. Let them think that this war is won and we are only staying in it for science and stuff". Obviously it is to our advantage to not tell you guys we thought we had a chance to win or else you might try harder and be slightly more active. We let our warring do the talking. I don't see how this warrants a Bad Manners b2b spite razefest.

[MyNameIsMatija]

A. Razes in war destroy buildings.. how is that Bad Manners or creating of a bad situation?
B. To my knowledge not a single learn was done after you guys posted about it on what.. day 3? The total amount of books we gains was.. 300k? that is the sum total of about 1/4 of what one of your provinces has. Yea.. some malicious.
C. Yes we did massacres. The only win condition we had for the war could basically be summed up as we had more thieves and wizards than you guys did, AND you guys were feeding your chained attackers/halfers runes to ET our rogues.. so of course we Massacred just enough to make those ET's stop so we could focus on our rogue advantage. Again.. not malicious or bad manners, and wizards train back really quickly now in EoWCF.

I do however agree that Bombdige and co coming on the forums and raising hell for no real reason started this bad situation. i do not see how that is FS's fault. All we were doing was trying to win a war. We in fact chose not to respond all that much when all this crap was started in the first place by Bombdige we actually had an order go out saying "Do not post on forums. Let them think that this war is won and we are only staying in it for science and stuff". Obviously it is to our advantage to not tell you guys we thought we had a chance to win or else you might try harder and be slightly more active. We let our warring do the talking. I don't see how this warrants a Bad Manners b2b spite razefest.

Quoting this post as a summary of common sense that some people seem to lack.

[bombdigie]

Quoting this post as a summary of common sense that some people seem to lack.

You really believe that spin?

The moment my monarch told me they were forcing us to 50% NW them was the moment I began my troll. I was going to make sure that I was going to expose them for the frauds that they are. They conveniently tried to use it to appease the masses and gain favor and support of the upcoming beat down they had coming.

"Too bad there had to be forum drama" - stop posting clowns.

[MyNameIsMatija]

You are simply put wrong, I know what FS is about, they might not be the cleanest bunch of them all but it's not hard for me at all to believe they were trying to win a war. I know nobody there is stupid enough to want to get 50%NWed, what's the point of getting humiliated like that?

EDIT:
Let me add, I was PMing with yume at the time when they started losing and I told her I believe Francis still has tricks up his sleeve and that war was far from over, as proven later, okthxbye.

[Leonidas]

There's nothing wrong at all with FS using their set-up to win the war. They used all its strong points. It's a 100% deserved war-win

It's also a set-up that's pretty terrible out of war. Big T/Ms with no hitters to help retal. There's nothing wrong with Pyro taking advantage of that set-up out of war either. In the ghettoes any kingdom with T/Ms way above hitters gets shat upon daily.

As much as the warring tier would like to isolate the game to a series of wars with breaks in between, the age is still 14 weeks long (or 18 when Bishop gets busy).

[tetley]

Pyro appears to have tagged "Round 2 fight" so I assume they're back at FS?

[bombdigie]

There's nothing wrong at all with FS using their set-up to win the war. They used all its strong points. It's a 100% deserved war-win

It's also a set-up that's pretty terrible out of war. Big T/Ms with no hitters to help retal. There's nothing wrong with Pyro taking advantage of that set-up out of war either. In the ghettoes any kingdom with T/Ms way above hitters gets shat upon daily.

As much as the warring tier would like to isolate the game to a series of wars with breaks in between, the age is still 14 weeks long (or 18 when Bishop gets busy).

Which is exactly why they need to stop crying here, and go to war with us where the stance suits their favor. Instead we get water works.

[s7ark]

why cant this dispute be in one thread? sigh. again, pyro, you complain about the long war and yet come back for more? i am aware warring tier would usually want stats to be in their favor before asking for war, but heck do you really need to be 20k bigger to beat fs? we all witnessed how you couldnt beat them on fair grounds (even after all that talk about fs wont be able to turn it around.. bla bla) but 20k bigger? really?

[Leonidas]

why cant this dispute be in one thread? sigh. again, pyro, you complain about the long war and yet come back for more? i am aware warring tier would usually want stats to be in their favor before asking for war, but heck do you really need to be 20k bigger to beat fs? we all witnessed how you couldnt beat them on fair grounds (even after all that talk about fs wont be able to turn it around.. bla bla) but 20k bigger? really?

But they were on equal terms before the war. Why does the game arbitrarily stop between wars? Why does the reassessment of "fair" competition change? FS chose a path that gave them a war win at the expense of a long-term advantage. Pyro's choosing to use the advantage they were gifted due to FS's strategy.

I don't think FS should be compelled to *war* Pyro again (NW difference probably prevents this), but I don't see why FS should gift a long-term advantage to Pyro and expect to get off scot-free.

[s7ark]

probably because fs and pyro were friendlies and one party didnt expect the other to be bitter about losing? so now you're implying that a war should be expected to last many rounds over a longer period of time?

losers should just be a sport, shake hands, and accept defeat. theres always next age where you can pick a better setup to counter the allegedly long war setup fs seems to be going for all the time.

[Gorash]

You really believe that spin?

The moment my monarch told me they were forcing us to 50% NW them was the moment I began my troll. I was going to make sure that I was going to expose them for the frauds that they are. They conveniently tried to use it to appease the masses and gain favor and support of the upcoming beat down they had coming.

"Too bad there had to be forum drama" - stop posting clowns.

If god himself would give you 2 choices:

1) admit you are wrong in this situation, or any other conflict
2) burn for an eternity in hell

You would go with 2.