Can we talk about IP blocks?

[Bishop]

Yes it does? What am I missing?

Your proposal doesn't do anything to stop people xlogging.

[Korp]

Rather it encourages people to xlogg.

[Akkadian/Taylor]

this is really really really annoying in war.

[Palem]

Bishop isn't *just* a forum mod, Bishop is THE LAW.
That said, that would also be a more appropriate title for him so he doesn't fall under the same category as a nub like Palem :-)

Can confirm

[kendy]

I am sorry for all my other post in this thread. They were secondary places to play and sarcasm.

I suppose I am the only player with unlimited data on my phone. I can play anytime anywhere. [almost]
I don't understand this thread. I can confirm I am more nub than Palem.

[DavidC]

What are the current suggestions for improvement to the current system?

As JeffT mentioned (I didn't go back very far to read the entire thread) we are very open to accepting suggestions for improvements to the current system.

After reading what I have, I may be able to present some ideas to the team that could potentially provide a solution. Although, one of the main reasons JeffT touched on was the system as it works now is a massive time saver with it's prevention. The amount of legitimate people (and I don't mean to make the legitimate IP-Blocked people feel insignificant) is minor in comparison to the amount of work involved in policing what would inevitably come from opening up the system. We don't have personal experience with this but the current systems in place were discussed at length with the previous owners to give us in depth knowledge of how they work and the degree to which they are effective. Unfortunately, we don't have the man-power to perform this policing, and neither did they which was the basis for the implementation of the current system.


Also, to clarify chadde. You may be misunderstanding what Bishop is saying, you are asking to have your 6 co-workers able to log and interact because you're all separate people and can prove that by having unique home IP addresses and only sharing the work IP during business hours etc. That is all fine. The problem which Bishop is presenting is that there is nothing to stop any one of you (while at work) from logging into all 6 accounts because there's no way to detect who is who while you're at work, and that is the problem. For 9 hours each day any person can log into any number of the accounts that share that IP address undetectable. So, in theory we could whitelist the 6 of you for the reasons you state but how do we deal with determining who is logging the accounts while at work?

[chadde]

What are the current suggestions for improvement to the current system?

As JeffT mentioned (I didn't go back very far to read the entire thread) we are very open to accepting suggestions for improvements to the current system.

After reading what I have, I may be able to present some ideas to the team that could potentially provide a solution. Although, one of the main reasons JeffT touched on was the system as it works now is a massive time saver with it's prevention. The amount of legitimate people (and I don't mean to make the legitimate IP-Blocked people feel insignificant) is minor in comparison to the amount of work involved in policing what would inevitably come from opening up the system. We don't have personal experience with this but the current systems in place were discussed at length with the previous owners to give us in depth knowledge of how they work and the degree to which they are effective. Unfortunately, we don't have the man-power to perform this policing, and neither did they which was the basis for the implementation of the current system.


Also, to clarify chadde. You may be misunderstanding what Bishop is saying, you are asking to have your 6 co-workers able to log and interact because you're all separate people and can prove that by having unique home IP addresses and only sharing the work IP during business hours etc. That is all fine. The problem which Bishop is presenting is that there is nothing to stop any one of you (while at work) from logging into all 6 accounts because there's no way to detect who is who while you're at work, and that is the problem. For 9 hours each day any person can log into any number of the accounts that share that IP address undetectable. So, in theory we could whitelist the 6 of you for the reasons you state but how do we deal with determining who is logging the accounts while at work?

1. Man power is plentyful within the community. Create a couple of github repos and encourage people to code and create pull requests.

2. If the 6 co-workers have been established as different people, does it really matter if one of them does an attack for another, maybe to help the new recruit get started? I would argue that that's acceptable. And really, what's the difference between one making two attacks and the two of them attacking separately but sitting at each other's desk helping out while they do it? And if you do want more granular control, just compare devices and browsers as well. If the two people that have been proven to be different people attack from two separate devices, isn't that enough? Who is going to recruit themselves 6 times and run around borrowing co-workers computers to do a wave? Seriously?

Edit: Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has just been recruited and never played before. We want new people to join, right? The blocking only properly affects elite players who are committed enough to actually play several provs from separate IPs, and we all know it doesn't really stop anyone determined enough. But it does stop a lot of recruiting. It's a matter of weighing the good against the bad. If lifting the block meant doubling the player base, isn't it worth a few multi assholes? I would like to think most of us play this game honourably and with good intentions. #QueCommentsAboutMeBeingNaive

[Squee311]

2. If the 6 co-workers have been established as different people, does it really matter if one of them does an attack for another, maybe to help the new recruit get started? I would argue that that's acceptable. And really, what's the difference between one making two attacks and the two of them attacking separately but sitting at each other's desk helping out while they do it? And if you do want more granular control, just compare devices and browsers as well. If the two people that have been proven to be different people attack from two separate devices, isn't that enough? Who is going to recruit themselves 6 times and run around borrowing co-workers computers to do a wave? Seriously?

It does because others have to pay for sitting creds...

[chadde]

It does because others have to pay for sitting creds...

So make people pay to get on the whitelist after they've been determined to be different people by the algorithm. Most of us good, honest players would.

[Squee311]

So make people pay to get on the whitelist after they've been determined to be different people by the algorithm. Most of us good, honest players would.

sounds more pay to win than sitting creds.

[chadde]

sounds more pay to win than sitting creds.

How is it pay to win if you have been determined to be different people?

1. Algorithm concludes the players are unique
2. Players are presented with the choice of IP block or pay to get on the whitelist
3. They pay, algorithm keeps watching over them to make sure nothing in their pattern changes
4. Money for Utopia - more players in Utopia

[Squee311]

you could literally make that determination... its a free license to x log w/o a sitter set. Oh jimmy isnt here atm but we are white listed guess i can just army in/out him.

It open abused as opposed to having to set a sitter and be locked out of your province.

[chadde]

you could literally make that determination... its a free license to x log w/o a sitter set. Oh jimmy isnt here atm but we are white listed guess i can just army in/out him.

It open abused as opposed to having to set a sitter and be locked out of your province.

ok, then how about this... if two of the 6 hypothetical provs do log on from work they get blocked. But after work, once they get home and are on different IPs, the block is lifted? This is still after being determined to be different players. Is there a problem with that? This is solution suggestion no. 43 btw :) Would be great if someone else had a suggestion instead of just negative feedback.

[octobrev]

1. Man power is plentyful within the community. Create a couple of github repos and encourage people to code and create pull requests.

I am a huge fan of this idea! We will need access to all of the privileged information to start building algorithms though: emails, passwords, logs of everything every player does every tick, etc.

[chadde]

I am a huge fan of this idea! We will need access to all of the privileged information to start building algorithms though: emails, passwords, logs of everything every player does every tick, etc.

That's not how app development works, but thanks for trying.