Some fite is for honor: Foxicorn's unifrogs vs FEYR TALES

Lol. I wonder how long you guys are gonna grudge about this. Let's just be frank and have it out. How many ages should I expect to be jumped by ED? I don't really care about what happened or what is happening; neither side is ever going to agree or relent. I'm just wondering how long I'm gonna have to see/suffer the lot of you like terribad ex-bfs. If this is going to be a regular thing, you're going to have to make it fun. All this grudging and bad feelings, is that really how 50 players in a dying game should live?

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Originally Posted by Tedurur

Just like last age then when Francis said he would raze into any eventual future war ED were in? No, you cant retal until meter is at 147pts and then just say "Oh, no we changed our mind, hostile is over": Hostile is over when both KDs have had enough. But Im sure that we can come to some agreement if you give us an incentive. Just sending ingame CF when both of us are at (nearly) maxed meter is not enough to claim "Hostile is over".

As for the whining about "Oh, poor us we had so and so much fewer troops" Well, you are sitting at 5 wpa raw and 5 tpa raw on your core. If you expect to have the same number of military as a same sized (in both land and nw) KD on top of those ratios then Im not sure what to tell you. When hostilities started we had the same land and same nw (with what you had in training). You tried once gain to out explore us by coming out of eowcf a little early. If you drop out before you consider yourselves fully trained thats not really our problem now is it? You tried to do what you usually do, outgrow and then try to force war. It didnt work this time since we learned from our misstake last age.

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i dont know where do you get that we are crying over anything? even my post that you have quoted clearly states that you did a good job, and gained well on the situation.. we perfectly know how uto works - sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.. we have no bitterness over that, and admit we had a poor position and agreed to give you a free wave on top of what you had already gained but you want to keep fighting until we die, or what?

this is not how it works, and this is not how we or anybody treat other kds.. even against you, you always had the option to give free wave and cf last age which was strictly refused by parth, and this age you got a cf in return of less than a full wave.. hypocrisy?

Tbh you only got yourselves to blame for this. When parth asked Francis for a cf last age he declined, demanded 750hp/day spent in hostile and threatened to oow hit us if we tried to engage another kd. At this time you were already up a few k honor and at least 20k acres. I think parth even said, "lets cf now and not turn this into a grudge next age"...

What comes around goes around...

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Originally Posted by citadela01

Honor request was never anything we would insisted on, it was pretty much reaction to your refusal to negotiate.

Now if we are answering questions, let me ask you one.
Why do you insist on spining story about our exploring tm's as reason you refused to war? It is not truth and you know it. We explored elves few days later with foresight to prepare for conflicts that would come after you. You were allrdy ****ed up at that point.
Only thing that did change during those 30 hours between both KD's leaving fort and you refusing to war for the first time is your 2 big wh's loosing tons of troops and land.
So why the lies than ?

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It actually is the truth, it's been covered last age and Ted covered it again some in this thread.

ED had no war targets and were too big, but Parth won't land drop because it goes against his "Ye Olde Code of Utopia". Everyone else we'd msged for a war had declined it, leaving us with one KD to fight (where we'd not just get farmed out for honour even if we won) and long term if we beat FS then we'd still be in ****ty position.

I don't have IRC installed so don't keep logs, you guys keep going back to hitting our Elves, yet in our priv chan there was quite a bit of "no idea why they're trying to hit down Elves" as you couldn't put them low enough to be of use to your hits. Long and short of it, FS keeps bringing up their "tactical genius" over hostile while ED (IIRC) seemed to think you did terrible at the time.

As Ted mentioned, the part where ED ****ed up last age, was when we saw you exploring then the decision was made to not also explore or match sizes on provs, as we already had no-one to war at large size and if we'd beaten FS we'd have been in an even worse postion (large and targetless).

Decision was to advised we'd not war if you grew, FS ignored that and grew more, then sent threats about how they'd have war regardless. Looking at options, if ED refused to war then only thing FS could do would be land drop ED a bit and then presumably move on hence why would ED offer up an "easy" CF giving FS what they want when their course of action to "punish" ED would long term help ED?

So EDs big being "outplayed" last age, was to not set off on an exploration race with no idea when/if FS would actually push button & then probably not thinking FS would drag hostile for 2 weeks out of spite.

That's how I remember things atleast, also as a side note to someones later post about how long things go on. Well ED vs. Strippers was 2-3 real years ago & I'd still spank them about if they existed. :)

Ummm spanking strippers, now that is money well spent!! :)

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Originally Posted by zmasternr1

Tbh you only got yourselves to blame for this. When parth asked Francis for a cf last age he declined, demanded 750hp/day spent in hostile and threatened to oow hit us if we tried to engage another kd. At this time you were already up a few k honor and at least 20k acres. I think parth even said, "lets cf now and not turn this into a grudge next age"...

What comes around goes around...

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this convo happened like 10th day of the conflict last age, and we didnt have such demands on the beginning - neither in the end, as we have cfed shortly after this.. i had clearly stated that giving a free wave in exchange for a cf is a common practice, yet parth strictly refused to give anything for free.. taking a line out of hundreds of pages worth of irc/ingame/forum talks and saying 'francis demanded this' has no worth..

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Originally Posted by silverfox

It actually is the truth, it's been covered last age and Ted covered it again some in this thread.

ED had no war targets and were too big, but Parth won't land drop because it goes against his "Ye Olde Code of Utopia". Everyone else we'd msged for a war had declined it, leaving us with one KD to fight (where we'd not just get farmed out for honour even if we won) and long term if we beat FS then we'd still be in ****ty position.

I don't have IRC installed so don't keep logs, you guys keep going back to hitting our Elves, yet in our priv chan there was quite a bit of "no idea why they're trying to hit down Elves" as you couldn't put them low enough to be of use to your hits. Long and short of it, FS keeps bringing up their "tactical genius" over hostile while ED (IIRC) seemed to think you did terrible at the time.

As Ted mentioned, the part where ED ****ed up last age, was when we saw you exploring then the decision was made to not also explore or match sizes on provs, as we already had no-one to war at large size and if we'd beaten FS we'd have been in an even worse postion (large and targetless).

Decision was to advised we'd not war if you grew, FS ignored that and grew more, then sent threats about how they'd have war regardless. Looking at options, if ED refused to war then only thing FS could do would be land drop ED a bit and then presumably move on hence why would ED offer up an "easy" CF giving FS what they want when their course of action to "punish" ED would long term help ED?

So EDs big being "outplayed" last age, was to not set off on an exploration race with no idea when/if FS would actually push button & then probably not thinking FS would drag hostile for 2 weeks out of spite.

That's how I remember things atleast, also as a side note to someones later post about how long things go on. Well ED vs. Strippers was 2-3 real years ago & I'd still spank them about if they existed. :)

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i dont understand how can you lie so much, but feel free to ask zauper as a neutral party (he is even favored to ed) and he will confirm that none of our elves had any exploration even when we had given button and a while more.. he has analyzed every piece of logs available and apologized to me in the end for hinting on fs exploration based on his misunderstanding of the dates..

as for the diplomacy - i dont think you really understand the concept.. when kd A engages on kd B and is willing to cf in return of the commonly accepted amount, yet kd B refuses to give anything and tries to escape, kd A has all the rights to take their prize by force.. when kd A engages on kd B and kd A refuses to make any reasonable cf terms and tries to enforce kd B for complete annihilation, kd B has no chances left to close the relations but to abandon the fight..

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Originally Posted by silverfox

It actually is the truth, it's been covered last age and Ted covered it again some in this thread.

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Well ive given you benefit of the doubt, and sadly you didnt delivered.

You steward (you ? gurch? helluva?)refused war first time 30hs after both kds left fort, we explored our elves 4-5 days after leaving fort when we allready had significant advantage.
This has been proven and confirmed via munks site by Francis and Zauper.

Oh well ... sadly as usual trying to talk sense on internet forums proves fruitless ... buy I will preserve and fight on the just fight.
Not here tho, iam done trying here

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

this convo happened like 10th day of the conflict last age, and we didnt have such demands on the beginning - neither in the end, as we have cfed shortly after this.. i had clearly stated that giving a free wave in exchange for a cf is a common practice, yet parth strictly refused to give anything for free.. taking a line out of hundreds of pages worth of irc/ingame/forum talks and saying 'francis demanded this' has no worth..

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Lies, stupidity and nonsense. We did not recieve any other offer. Thats like us saying "Last night we would have CF'ed you for free, but you didnt ask at the time". This reasoning only shows what an idiot you are.
"Taking one line"....jesus, you are not a bright one. I took the line with the offer, not just any line. We got ONE offer from francis, its summed up in one line, it does hold some importance, yes.

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

as for the diplomacy - i dont think you really understand the concept.. when kd A engages on kd B and is willing to cf in return of the commonly accepted amount, yet kd B refuses to give anything and tries to escape, kd A has all the rights to take their prize by force.. when kd A engages on kd B and kd A refuses to make any reasonable cf terms and tries to enforce kd B for complete annihilation, kd B has no chances left to close the relations but to abandon the fight..

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No, you guys has a much wider understanding of diplo. A few more messages like this and we will give a free wave for cf.

Fact is, your kd is retarded for diplo. We tried to approach your ingame monarch last age before hostile started, to make a deal. Got no response, no willingness to agree to anything.
Had he done some diplomacy at this point, nothing would have happened. He could have said "we wont war you unless we ourgrow you first. The reason we're same size now is just so we can lure you to be interested, but we wont war at such terms" and we would have responded "oh? Thats just retarded. But we wont war on your terms so lets just cf before we start" and everything would have been resolved.

To my knowledge, Parth approached FS multiple times asking for a cf. The "750hp/day spent in hostile" was like the first reply with a real offer we got and it might have been 10 days into the conflict. I dunno.

If my memory doesn't betray me all other cf requests were either answered with "declare and we move away after", "lets fight it out" or dead silence...

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

i dont understand how can you lie so much, but feel free to ask zauper as a neutral party (he is even favored to ed) and he will confirm that none of our elves had any exploration even when we had given button and a while more.. he has analyzed every piece of logs available and apologized to me in the end for hinting on fs exploration based on his misunderstanding of the dates..

as for the diplomacy - i dont think you really understand the concept.. when kd A engages on kd B and is willing to cf in return of the commonly accepted amount, yet kd B refuses to give anything and tries to escape, kd A has all the rights to take their prize by force.. when kd A engages on kd B and kd A refuses to make any reasonable cf terms and tries to enforce kd B for complete annihilation, kd B has no chances left to close the relations but to abandon the fight..

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Who mentioned Elves? FS grew in acres at the start of the conflict, ED saw this plus dragging of hostile and said "thanks but no thanks". If you want to argue to the second that timeline then that's fine, I don't however as it's much easier to just give you the reason then let you just decide on whatever else you think.

Here's the reality, whatever the reasons were and whoever is right or wrong is way past being relevant. You're trying to insult people on not knowing about diplomacy and understanding the concept, yet here you are a few months down the line with your KD getting fisted.

So you tell me who does and doensn't know about diplomacy, is it us or is it you who's trying to assign your own view of how things should be resolved yet you managed to resolve nothing. Also I believe Parth sent you some terms, which are very far from "complete annihilation" and will in the end be what happens anyway. Maybe you should use that diplomatic mind of yours and consider what will be will be, though maybe it's less pride hurting to say "we stopped fighting and they took stuff" than to say "ok we agree".

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Also something which seems to be pretty much over looked when we're talking about what's happening & grudges, FS made enough of their own threats towards ED about future ages and EDs setup gets leaked at start of the age so FS knows where they are, waits till they're in a better position and again try to hostile ED.

If you really think ED would let all of this go, you must be smoking crack.

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Originally Posted by citadela01

Well ive given you benefit of the doubt, and sadly you didnt delivered.

You steward (you ? gurch? helluva?)refused war first time 30hs after both kds left fort, we explored our elves 4-5 days after leaving fort when we allready had significant advantage.
This has been proven and confirmed via munks site by Francis and Zauper.

Oh well ... sadly as usual trying to talk sense on internet forums proves fruitless ... buy I will preserve and fight on the just fight.
Not here tho, iam done trying here

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wtf are you talking about? I didn't refuse war...ever....please show the correspondence? ^ literally made up on the spot. You've had button the entire time. We wanted you to give us button in exchange for a 48hr temp cf but you rejected the button deal and instead decided to explore. With no CF in place, we took it on ourselves to engage you. You had button the entire time and refused to use it.

Please stop making stuff up, I know math is hard, but....

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Originally Posted by zmasternr1

To my knowledge, Parth approached FS multiple times asking for a cf. The "750hp/day spent in hostile" was like the first reply with a real offer we got and it might have been 10 days into the conflict. I dunno.

If my memory doesn't betray me all other cf requests were either answered with "declare and we move away after", "lets fight it out" or dead silence...

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wrong - all offers we have recieved were blank cf's, and after every blank cf offer i have repeated that the cf cant be free, you need to offer a free wave or a number of hits which was always answered by 'we wont give anything for free, either you get it by force in a long hostile and earn a grudge, or you walk away without getting anything'..

750 hp per day was brought up on 2nd week of conflict (should be 10th day or so), but nobody insisted on it and we cfed shortly after..

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Originally Posted by silverfox

Also something which seems to be pretty much over looked when we're talking about what's happening & grudges, FS made enough of their own threats towards ED about future ages and EDs setup gets leaked at start of the age so FS knows where they are, waits till they're in a better position and again try to hostile ED.

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we didnt know your loc, neither cared for it - but would you please tell us what was the terms for cf on this first conflict this age?

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Originally Posted by silverfox

Here's the reality, whatever the reasons were and whoever is right or wrong is way past being relevant. You're trying to insult people on not knowing about diplomacy and understanding the concept, yet here you are a few months down the line with your KD getting fisted.

So you tell me who does and doensn't know about diplomacy, is it us or is it you who's trying to assign your own view of how things should be resolved yet you managed to resolve nothing. Also I believe Parth sent you some terms, which are very far from "complete annihilation" and will in the end be what happens anyway. Maybe you should use that diplomatic mind of yours and consider what will be will be, though maybe it's less pride hurting to say "we stopped fighting and they took stuff" than to say "ok we agree".

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everybody gets fisted at some point, and there is no shame in that.. if you want to hear it again, here it is - gj for taking the right time & position to come after us with highest odds, and gaining over it..

p.s. good luck trying to convince other kds that you are currently in an active hostility..

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

p.s. good luck trying to convince other kds that you are currently in an active hostility..

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funny enough I was just going to post how you guys - without signing a EoACF with us - are claiming you are no longer hostile with us. Yeah because we're just going to sign an in game cf with no agreement and wait to engage another kd and have you hit into our next hostile/war.

Sign an agreement or else it's still on