The bottom is hot

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Originally Posted by zaza945

We've talked to many kds/leaders, they all agree, you guys deal broke. You are either delusional, slow, or lying if you really think what you did wasn't a deal break.

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Im sorry did the UTO supreme court meet when I wasnt looking and issue an official ruling? or was it you talking with your friends and them deciding they dont like it when we hit you unexpectedly.

Diplo in UTO has two pillars

1) good faith. This is what keeps ppl from double hostile or breaking cf while in negotiations or other such things despite them not being explicitly written into war deals. This is an important part of UTO diplo but is treated by the community as secondary to pillar number two.

2) technical agreements based on conventional contract laws. This means that ppl must adhere to agreements as written and treat the carrying out and/or alterations of those agreements in a similar fashion as real life contracts. IE one party can not unilaterally change a written agreement with out the consent of the other party.

Dicks broke the good faith CF while we negotiated, then they failed to adhere to the technical agreement as written. If this is a popularity contest then sure dicks win. If this is about deal breaking then they are wrong, there was no deal. If we throw out the global convention of contractual law that one party can not alter a deal with out the consent of the other party then UTO diplo is meaningless. Your sacred CF deals really would just be a buddy club where you can apply or break rules as you please.

like I said, you wanna GB go for it. But dont pretend this is a deal break when your trying to take EOA CF under conditions we never offered or agreed to. GB bc you dont like us is ok. Lying about it is just dumb though.

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Originally Posted by beans

If yall like divinity that's fine. But a deal to be accepted by a certain date is not a deal at all if taken after that date with out renegotiation. Everything from legal contracts to grocery store coupons work that way, no way it works any different in UTO.

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If you want to use loopholes, sure. Otherwise you wouldn't fall over a single tick were nothing happened.

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Originally Posted by beans

We had a blank cf put in place so kds could both negotiate in good faith, they broke it and waved. They took a blank cf after waving us because the deal for EOA CF expired. If we supposedly have to write big diplo contracts to be able to war deal with out getting a cf broken and waved then they have to renegotiate for EOA CF if they take a CF after the deal offered expired.

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Just as I told Heaven, blank cf getting broken perhaps doesn't deserve an award but its certainly not illegal. Not everyone leaves their ingame CFs intact. Its a mistake on your end.

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Originally Posted by protector

If you want to use loopholes, sure. Otherwise you wouldn't fall over a single tick were nothing happened.

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""loop·hole
ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/Submit
noun
1.
an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules. """

Nothing at all ambiguous about #2 on a 3 point list saying specifically NO LATER THAN THE 7TH. Assuming we all can count to 8 then we all should be able to tell whether or not 8th is later then the 7th.

here is another excerpt of a definition for you: legal contract- "The basic elements of a contract are mutual assent, consideration, capacity, and legality." You see the part in there about mutual assent? that is how **** works in the real world. One party is not allowed to alter the terms of a contract with out mutual assent.

When dicks broke cf and waved us we asked why they would break a cf and wave during negotiations we were told that we didnt specify terms and have to diplo better if we want to avoid getting waved. Well guess what, they aint as good as diplo as they thought. If they had taken the CF by the 7th I guarantee you 100% we would not have touched them all age (we would have waited till next age). But they treated us like assholes AND clearly did not meet one of the very few conditions we gave them for our EOA CF offer so we are free to wave them with out it being a deal break. If other kds want to jump in thats fine, although if they are breaking EOA CFs to do it then that is on them... Us breaking a cf that was accepted after our offer expired is no excuse for others to break valid eoa cfs.

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Originally Posted by beans

You cant unilaterally decide that any cf is eoa cf no matter if you meet our conditions or not. We offered a deal and you didn't meat the terms, if you wanted a different terms you needed to get our consent.

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Clearly Divinity was under the impression that they had an EOA CF with you guys. You obviously knew they believed that.
In this case, why not inform them that they are mistaken so that they can renegotiate?
Exploiting loopholes in contracts that go against the spirit of the contract is one of the lowest things you can do, whether it be in Utopia or in real life. Using that sort of behaviour to justify your actions is like saying "I didn't mean to kill him, I just wanted him to never walk again".

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Originally Posted by Child

Clearly Divinity was under the impression that they had an EOA CF with you guys. You obviously knew they believed that.
In this case, why not inform them that they are mistaken so that they can renegotiate?
Exploiting loopholes in contracts that go against the spirit of the contract is one of the lowest things you can do, whether it be in Utopia or in real life. Using that sort of behaviour to justify your actions is like saying "I didn't mean to kill him, I just wanted him to never walk again".

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its not a loophole because it was not ambiguous, our terms were clearly stated and they were not met. This was not a contract between two parties amibically working together, they waved two times and told us to offer an EOA CF or they would keep waving us. This deal was more like a hostile take over of a corporation, and we were under no obligation to point out to them the obvious fact that 8 comes after 7.

Funny how you're leaving out the fact divinity approached you <24 hours before you dealbroke to arrange a war.

Here you are saying how you want a war on even terms bla bla bla. You're full of ****. We asked you for war a day before you broke cf and we were negotiating terms. Instead of the "fair" war you're preaching about you decide to break cf.

That coupled with the fact you tried to arrange a fake war earlier just shows what type of kd you are.

Stop trying to spin lies and face the facts. You broke cf because you're too crap to war on even terms against a good kd.

DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!

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Originally Posted by Child

Clearly Divinity was under the impression that they had an EOA CF with you guys. You obviously knew they believed that.
In this case, why not inform them that they are mistaken so that they can renegotiate?
Exploiting loopholes in contracts that go against the spirit of the contract is one of the lowest things you can do, whether it be in Utopia or in real life. Using that sort of behaviour to justify your actions is like saying "I didn't mean to kill him, I just wanted him to never walk again".

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so how can a kd who really believes theyre in a eoacf still keep doing intel even on tms? since that first cf was up, theyve been doing intels all along. whats with the constant checking?

Protector, your comment is hypocracy if you think back on last age, i like how your stance switch to suit friends. Maybe try and stick to what you say no matter if its friends or not.. You know what im talking about so i wont repeat it here, just keep that in mind when you wish to be the "Law, Jury and Judge"...

Rich coming from you Aranfein. :)

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Originally Posted by p0ngkol

so how can a kd who really believes theyre in a eoacf still keep doing intel even on tms? since that first cf was up, theyve been doing intels all along. whats with the constant checking?

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No idea, I'm not part of the KD.

This attitude towards agreements is in part what has created your poor reputation. It's the same issue as you claiming that offering a mintime withdrawal is not a fake war. You're abusing technicalities instead of honouring the spirit of the agreement/laws.
If that's how you want to live your life, fine, but don't expect anyone to think highly of you for it. I certainly don't believe that going against the spirit of an agreement is the right thing to do, legal or not.

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Originally Posted by Smitty87

Funny how you're leaving out the fact divinity approached you <24 hours before you dealbroke to arrange a war.

Here you are saying how you want a war on even terms bla bla bla. You're full of ****. We asked you for war a day before you broke cf and we were negotiating terms. Instead of the "fair" war you're preaching about you decide to break cf.

That coupled with the fact you tried to arrange a fake war earlier just shows what type of kd you are.

Stop trying to spin lies and face the facts. You broke cf because you're too crap to war on even terms against a good kd.

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Not trolling at all when i say this: post logs. as you might have guessed I am not heaven so if you messaged him asking for war I didnt get it (my "leadership" status is as a strategist, I never deal with diplo). If you guys did offer us a fair war deal before we waved you then I seriously regret we didnt take it, all that most of the kd wanted out of the rest of the age was another war. This wouldnt change the facts regarding the CF deal /conditions (ie offering us war doesnt turn a non legitimate eoa CF into a legitimate one) but it is of great interest to me BC this is the first I am hearing of any war offer from you guys. So... if you got logs post them pls. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Smitty87

Stop trying to spin lies and face the facts. You broke cf because you're too crap to war on even terms against a good kd.

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dude, you should totally check this out.

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Originally Posted by Persain

We turned them down because an arranged war with them on their terms is a 100% loss for us unless they are just bad/active....if they want to fight we'll gladly do it but we're going to use all the tools the game provides and use our setup to full advantage not just agree to get into a war to be in a war. (Letting them catch up in size and pump before we "start hostile" i'd say is closer to 60-40 for them, but for those that care as to why its 100% win with instant push see me in irc;.... hint setup x beats setup y sometimes with semi evenly matched kds :P)

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fyi, thats from your monarch. so now i wonder how we can war on even terms just like you said when hey you took advantage and waved us while we were in pump builds? and well we were confident in pump build because there was a cf put up supposedly for negotiations. man we somehow had trust even with the constant intels on us.

Personally I despise using semantics and wordplay to twist spirit of agreement. It is one of the worst things practiced in Utopia, sadly it has become standard behavior.
But it DID become standard behavior, its pretty sad to hear KD's are ganging up on on somebody who only practiced same obscene "laws" said KD's use and abuse daily in their dealings.
Once again, personal integrity in Utopia takes a backseat to petty interests.

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Originally Posted by p0ngkol

dude, you should totally check this out.

fyi, thats from your monarch. so now i wonder how we can war on even terms just like you said when hey you took advantage and waved us while we were in pump builds? and well we were confident in pump build because there was a cf put up supposedly for negotiations. man we somehow had trust even with the constant intels on us.

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Read Persians logs.

You wanted instant declare.
You wanted no AW or chaining of TMs/massacres on TMs.
You wanted to wd min time so you got a loss and kds below would war you.

That's a clear fake war.

We wanted:
Hostilities start at xx/Yy.
Anything goes.

I'm not a genius but to me it doesn't sound like you wanted a fair war at all.

facts are you wanted a fake war, you got caught out and waved (into full fort with 0 massacres) as a lesson for trying to arrange one.

And now to top it off you break an eoacf because it's the only chance you'de have to beat us.
Bravo

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Originally Posted by Child

No idea, I'm not part of the KD.

This attitude towards agreements is in part what has created your poor reputation. It's the same issue as you claiming that offering a mintime withdrawal is not a fake war. You're abusing technicalities instead of honouring the spirit of the agreement/laws.
If that's how you want to live your life, fine, but don't expect anyone to think highly of you for it. I certainly don't believe that going against the spirit of an agreement is the right thing to do, legal or not.

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thats rich of you to say coming from a monarch who has little difficulty in upholding war terms.

Good daily morning reading :)

Lol. Is beans heaven/Bart? Did he change name again?

Never had a good impression of bart lol. Comes across to me as a utopia star wannabe who tries too hard in the wrong ways. It was funny how he thought he had a great diplomatic success by being a dickhead in negotiations with me like a few days before eoa last age, and I just decided to be lazy and not wave his kd for a few days for lols but instead cf till eoa (Cause crazies won't have caught cr). Could totally imagine him bluffing himself 'yesss I got a eoa cf because I managed to threaten to hit crazies low def provs etc' lolol.

This will ruffle a few feathers, but Spartans was the kd that got gc aided after most of their wars last age to rebuild asap. Inclusive of drake funds.

Have no province in game atm, but just looking at the logs that pertain posted... if Spartans don't have any other logs other than what persain posted. Oh well.

#obvious

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Originally Posted by p0ngkol

thats rich of you to say coming from a monarch who has little difficulty in upholding war terms.

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If you recall, we were unable to stick to the terms set by a player that then left our KD. We then renegotiated terms that you were happy with and proceeded with the war despite seeing no real chance of winning.
What we could have done is said we were double hostiled and thus the war deal is nullified (it was a clause in there) but we're not like that (since it was our own fault the KD hit us). You were just taking advantage of us having a leader that had no idea how to do diplo.

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Originally Posted by beans

""loop·hole
ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/Submit
noun
1.
an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules. """

Nothing at all ambiguous about #2 on a 3 point list saying specifically NO LATER THAN THE 7TH. Assuming we all can count to 8 then we all should be able to tell whether or not 8th is later then the 7th.

here is another excerpt of a definition for you: legal contract- "The basic elements of a contract are mutual assent, consideration, capacity, and legality." You see the part in there about mutual assent? that is how **** works in the real world. One party is not allowed to alter the terms of a contract with out mutual assent.

When dicks broke cf and waved us we asked why they would break a cf and wave during negotiations we were told that we didnt specify terms and have to diplo better if we want to avoid getting waved. Well guess what, they aint as good as diplo as they thought. If they had taken the CF by the 7th I guarantee you 100% we would not have touched them all age (we would have waited till next age). But they treated us like assholes AND clearly did not meet one of the very few conditions we gave them for our EOA CF offer so we are free to wave them with out it being a deal break. If other kds want to jump in thats fine, although if they are breaking EOA CFs to do it then that is on them... Us breaking a cf that was accepted after our offer expired is no excuse for others to break valid eoa cfs.

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No matter what fancy stuff you copy paste from a dictionary, it doesn't change the fact you're just nitpicking. Looking for an absurd reason to justify your actions. No sane person would make an issue about it.

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Originally Posted by Aranfein

Protector, your comment is hypocracy if you think back on last age, i like how your stance switch to suit friends. Maybe try and stick to what you say no matter if its friends or not.. You know what im talking about so i wont repeat it here, just keep that in mind when you wish to be the "Law, Jury and Judge"...

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protector agrees what they did was wrong, however hes not friends with me anymore than you would be. so hes not changing his opinions to help a friend

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Originally Posted by citadela01

Personally I despise using semantics and wordplay to twist spirit of agreement. It is one of the worst things practiced in Utopia, sadly it has become standard behavior.
But it DID become standard behavior, its pretty sad to hear KD's are ganging up on on somebody who only practiced same obscene "laws" said KD's use and abuse daily in their dealings.
Once again, personal integrity in Utopia takes a backseat to petty interests.

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bart/heave/whatever told multiple kds he never had any intention of agreeing to an eoacf. ANY offer we agree to he was going to keep it worded JUST enough that he could wave as hes doing now. I made it real clear what we were offering he accepted what i said enough that all the top kds agree it was a deal break. (and to be honest even if they thought he outplayed me we'd of asked for help its NOT acceptable to do this the only reason the top here matters at all is we ar the#9 and 10 kds. if we were the # 49 and 50 kds i wouldnt bother asking them at all and just use differnt friends. This is the EXACT reason we have friends to stop this kind of play)

If u dont want to this to be standard behavoir stand up against it. . im sure someone can come up with something we did "wrong" but we always try to make things right. As of the last msg the "best" offer we got was a flat cf and them waring us with better pumped provs on an acre total we cant reach if a couple of days.. Nothing to address their poor form, or repayment for this. Remember what the awar was fought over emeriti cant crown, isn't allowed above XYZ...it put us on opposite sides of the Awar, we saw different perspectives backed differnt kds ours issue was simply no mater what, you dont deal break if u have an issue deal with it out in the open. EXACTLY what im doing with spartans this age. they had an issue back when the eoacf when up they tell us and we'd of beaten them down back then. Now there not many options left.

Whats the deal? We hitting Spartans or what? 25 green?

Might as well. Emirti already deal broke. Everyone else should as well to teach spartans that deal breaking is bad hahaha

What a sad game community

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Originally Posted by Aces

Might as well. Emirti already deal broke. Everyone else should as well to teach spartans that deal breaking is bad hahaha

What a sad game community

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Moral of the story:

Don't break deals

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Originally Posted by Aces

Might as well. Emirti already deal broke. Everyone else should as well to teach spartans that deal breaking is bad hahaha

What a sad game community

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Well looking at the Emeriti paper it looks like Spartans broke the CF. If we are being technical.

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Originally Posted by Chrystal Palace

Whats the deal? We hitting Spartans or what? 25 green?

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Probubly nothing so murderous. Thats a lot harsher than im really want to be. i guess it really depends on how they act though i mean if after a little beating on they dig in harder and actually manage to find friends that COULD be something we have to go to. not really ideal though.

If we were being technical the 7th would be the 7th not the 8th but I think we are past technicalities...

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Originally Posted by Aces

If we were being technical the 7th would be the 7th not the 8th but I think we are past technicalities...

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From what I have seen Spartans argument is relying on that technicality, so obviously we are. So similarly Emeriti did not deal break, they just hit first after the CF was dropped.

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Originally Posted by Persain

protector agrees what they did was wrong, however hes not friends with me anymore than you would be. so hes not changing his opinions to help a friend

bart/heave/whatever told multiple kds he never had any intention of agreeing to an eoacf. ANY offer we agree to he was going to keep it worded JUST enough that he could wave as hes doing now. I made it real clear what we were offering he accepted what i said enough that all the top kds agree it was a deal break. (and to be honest even if they thought he outplayed me we'd of asked for help its NOT acceptable to do this the only reason the top here matters at all is we ar the#9 and 10 kds. if we were the # 49 and 50 kds i wouldnt bother asking them at all and just use differnt friends. This is the EXACT reason we have friends to stop this kind of play)

If u dont want to this to be standard behavoir stand up against it. . im sure someone can come up with something we did "wrong" but we always try to make things right. As of the last msg the "best" offer we got was a flat cf and them waring us with better pumped provs on an acre total we cant reach if a couple of days.. Nothing to address their poor form, or repayment for this. Remember what the awar was fought over emeriti cant crown, isn't allowed above XYZ...it put us on opposite sides of the Awar, we saw different perspectives backed differnt kds ours issue was simply no mater what, you dont deal break if u have an issue deal with it out in the open. EXACTLY what im doing with spartans this age. they had an issue back when the eoacf when up they tell us and we'd of beaten them down back then. Now there not many options left.

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Ok im getting mixed up on the issues here. Most importantly to me is the bit about the war deal offer. We can do better then a flat CF if you really have an interest in war. We'd go even acre war deal with you being able to take back acres from us until our kds are aprox equal and CF for a set time allowing you to pump. I'd even eat a some massacres BC hell why not its EOA and this would be the last war any way.

If you really have an interest in a war deal I can get in touch, I will happily go as far as what makes the war a fair fight but have no interest in giving you guys tons of extra acres over us as some sort of reparations. Yall waved a war kd whos worst crime was being desperate enough for a war that theyd offer to WD just to get a war? fake war my ass, we were not going to get land or honour out of you with how big n pumped you were. It was just going to be a fun war that wed lose. Simple fact is you pissed off a war kd and failed to properly close diplo.

-accusation about never intending to honour EOA CF... Easy accusation to make because your pissed about your failed diplo, but I dont believe bart would do that. We'd have just waited until next age. We werent even going to wave you this age despite your diplo fail except we still could not find a war. Nothing to see here unless you have logs/proof.

-sure we are being nitpicky about the deal, but we dont owe you any good will or favors so why honour a deal that was forced on us with waves and threats of more waves when the deal was not taken upon agreed terms?

-If you want to war deal lets deal, if not thats fine. I see hits coming in from your allies now which is what we expected so we aint gonna cry about it if you decide to GB instead of war.

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Originally Posted by Runefire

From what I have seen Spartans argument is relying on that technicality, so obviously we are. So similarly Emeriti did not deal break, they just hit first after the CF was dropped.

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So they can technicality break a cf and thats fine. But Spartans breaking one on a technicality warrants a gb till the disban? Thanks for proving the point for me. Don't worry everyone. If big kds do it it's totally fine. Sorry small guys. You are screwed

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Originally Posted by Runefire

From what I have seen Spartans argument is relying on that technicality, so obviously we are. So similarly Emeriti did not deal break, they just hit first after the CF was dropped.

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nah emeriti is fine, they gave notice that they were going to wave us which (in our opinion) was a DB. But we've said from the beginning that we were not going to pull in allies so breaking CF with them first makes sense. Only KD we wanted to suffer was Dicks and we dont need an argument about emeriti deal breaks complicating the issue. Telling us they are going to DB isnt a DB IMO so they are fine I'd assume. Doesnt mean we aint gonna hold a grudge about it but were not looking for others to cry foul and jump in.

Also for the record I was against waving dicks this age. Technically we did not have an EOA CF because parts of the deal explicitly stated were not met, but that doesnt mean I think this was an honourable thing to do. They gave us a ****ty deal by breaking a blank cf in the middle of negotiations and waving, but id have prefered to play more honourably then dicks and not less. The one thing that I do like about this whole mess is how self righteous and pissed some of yall get when ppl play the same diplo BS on you that you play on others. Dunno that it makes it worth it (fing hate diplo and broke my one rule by getting involved in it now) but it has been interesting.

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Originally Posted by beans

-If you want to war deal lets deal, if not thats fine. I see hits coming in from your allies now which is what we expected so we aint gonna cry about it if you decide to GB instead of war.

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i made an offer that was both reasonable and justified given the dealbreak and was told no. hits started now though yup, so when and if u still want your kd wants to do diplmacy im online 24/7 when not asleep. The longer it goes the less reasonable the offer will seem though. which is quite sad.

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Originally Posted by Persain

i made an offer that was both reasonable and justified given the dealbreak and was told no. hits started now though yup, so when and if u still want your kd wants to do diplmacy im online 24/7 when not asleep. The longer it goes the less reasonable the offer will seem though. which is quite sad.

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There was no deal to deal break. 8 still > then 7. And if you talking about the deal where you get 7k more acres then us and do 2x the masses then we will pass and just take the GB lol.

beans I feel for you since apparently you are not kept in the loop. Heaven has told me(and I am not in divinity) that you guys asked for a fake war. He used the phrase fake war so there was no mistaking it. I do have the irc log but I prefer not to copy and paste stuff in forums.
The only reason you guys are mad is because your lies and deception have caught up to y'all.
You know like accidentally totally by coincidence bounce waving a TM the same tik another kingdom declares....orrrr starting a dragon into a war demanding eowcf or else...or sending more powerful kingdoms to pressure kingdoms into cfs...or in this case asking for fake war and when that didnt work trying to s...play the wrong kingdom. time to face the music.

Ace that's the kind of kingdom spartans are, just so you know who you are defending here. We have warred and lost to divinity, so I am not posting this as their friend but because I like Utopia and what spartans have been doing is hurting the game.

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Originally Posted by beans

And if you talking about the deal where you get 7k more acres then us and do 2x the masses then we will pass and just take the GB lol.

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you mean were your t/ms eat the same number of hit per t/m we ate, and we get a 4% land advantage and both sides get as long as they need to pump for war. yes, thats SOOO unreasonable. it might be a tad heavy but i also offered "something of equivalent value/fun to the suggested war" and there was no counter other than explore to more acres than have pool for and pump with you guys haveing a land advantage. Perhaps a reasonable offer of acres/science/honor? the last offer i got was

Sender King Dirty Killer the Rogue of Moaning Murderer (Spartans)
Recipient King For Science the Sorcerer of Richard -Dick- Feynman (Divinity)
Subject Re:Yo
While I'm able to take a step back and take a beating, my KD cannot. All I can offer is my own prov. I can delete it if you want or you can rape it, whatever makes you feel good. Point is that at this stage my KD has been in so much boredom that I feel many would just quit if I gave in to it. Half has already stated they either want a fair or just battle it out.

I'm even fine first warring ya'll on even grounds,......
________________
first given your monarchs actions we're NOT okay to war on equal ACRES, equal streatgh maybe, but theres been a ton of wasted time/effort that will probubly need to be addressed first. To that end if your monarch wants to pk thats 1 prov thats not really addressing any real issues. you still end up with a orc warrior v undead merchant core(hint merchants need a kd to be bigger for that setpu to be "Even") and 7v6 t/ms where ours are weaker (13 massacres into our 6 t/ms is 2 per... you'll need to eat 14 massacres before its even)... that even ignores the 5 dwarfs that we'd basically have to gift u as unbrekable +unable to op now that our t/ms are weak.

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

The only reason you guys are mad is because your lies and deception have caught up to y'all.
You know like accidentally totally by coincidence bounce waving a TM the same tik another kingdom declares....orrrr starting a dragon into a war demanding eowcf or else...or sending more powerful kingdoms to pressure kingdoms into cfs...or in this case asking for fake war and when that didnt work trying to s...play the wrong kingdom. time to face the music.

Ace that's the kind of kingdom spartans are, just so you know who you are defending here. We have warred and lost to divinity, so I am not posting this as their friend but because I like Utopia and what spartans have been doing is hurting the game.

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lol. wont be surprised about this.


i'm hoping that divinity and whoever helping divinity doesnt suddenly decide to have a soft heart... dont agree with whatever **** 'fair war' or whatever beans is trying to propose to get out of his hole he created.

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Originally Posted by Persain

you mean were your t/ms eat the same number of hit per t/m we ate, and we get a 4% land advantage and both sides get as long as they need to pump for war. yes, thats SOOO unreasonable. it might be a tad heavy but i also offered "something of equivalent value/fun to the suggested war" and there was no counter other than explore to more acres than have pool for and pump with you guys haveing a land advantage. Perhaps a reasonable offer of acres/science/honor? the last offer i got was

Sender King Dirty Killer the Rogue of Moaning Murderer (Spartans)
Recipient King For Science the Sorcerer of Richard -Dick- Feynman (Divinity)
Subject Re:Yo
While I'm able to take a step back and take a beating, my KD cannot. All I can offer is my own prov. I can delete it if you want or you can rape it, whatever makes you feel good. Point is that at this stage my KD has been in so much boredom that I feel many would just quit if I gave in to it. Half has already stated they either want a fair or just battle it out.

I'm even fine first warring ya'll on even grounds,......
________________
first given your monarchs actions we're NOT okay to war on equal ACRES, equal streatgh maybe, but theres been a ton of wasted time/effort that will probubly need to be addressed first. To that end if your monarch wants to pk thats 1 prov thats not really addressing any real issues. you still end up with a orc warrior v undead merchant core(hint merchants need a kd to be bigger for that setpu to be "Even") and 7v6 t/ms where ours are weaker (13 massacres into our 6 t/ms is 2 per... you'll need to eat 14 massacres before its even)... that even ignores the 5 dwarfs that we'd basically have to gift u as unbrekable +unable to op now that our t/ms are weak.

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ah you want 14 massacres to our 13, that actually is reasonable. I read the deal as being twice as many massacres, IE you wanted 26 massacres. As for land, well im sure we could work something out. Honestly though trying to get a real war out of this is gonna be a huge uphill battle. I think we could do it, if it was me and you talking diplo... Bart's diplo style does not seem to work for you. However, I fking hate diplo and am happy being sucked into this when all I want to be doing is calcing builds and war strats... so If what you really want to do is just GB with emeriti then do that and I aint gonna complain (only complaint is calling us DBers, reading the logs the deal just aint there since you didnt meet an explicitly stated requirement). If you want some one to come to the table to deal I am willing, but not necessarily happy to be cast into the diplo pit lol.

As for stuff about spartan's dealings in past ages. IDK, im new this age. Warred spartan's last age and they were one of the few kds I fought that kept the to the war deal with out a bunch of BS. This age the only diplo I followed was all pretty straightforward. I'm not gonna deny **** from when I wasnt here, I guess it may be relevant to those who want to watch sparta burn. But for me I'm just looking at dealings between dicks and spartans this age.

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Originally Posted by beans

ah

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yup thats what we offered before calling in allies. now that its started bart would have to offer something else. cant really recoup all the losses we've taken anymore :/

so whats going on? emeriti is taking acres is anyone else? is emeriti able to keep spartans under control? whats the diplo situation look like?