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Everyone's been guilty at some point of something bad. Pots call kettles black in this community on a weekly basis. Each day it's more of the "which one is blacker" routine. Nobody's right when everybody's wrong, eh? And now I hope that song is stuck in your head.
Hey sheister, I hope you are drunk
So he had a lil fun poking you guys over the fact that your track record has sucked since he left. Wah... He also fed you guys acres to grow and dragon gc to use in your war against Emeriti last age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
No, it absolutely makes them less right in that it undermines their claims as to what this is all abt. It also makes you both hypocrites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Our kds had lots of differences last age. Some events was worse then others. You know what i feel about Dorje and my honest opinion is that Dorje is involved in lots of **** whenever he is around in this game, maybe defend the man less and you wont lose the community respect that you always had.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
Lets try to keep this on this age events. It just gets easier because before you know it someone talk about age 50s or 40s.
I am trying my best to not be involved, the forums is all i have to read while i dont play, as much fun as it is having forum action id like to just fade out into nothingness until i some day return to this game.
GL everyone until then...
I'm genuinely confused by what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto_King
I still like cj but he can't be neutral in anything that involves pyro. Too much history there.
I like you more/hate you less now that you retired. Let me know when you're ready to come back, I currently play in a top 200 kd and could get you an invite if you pass the screening process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
No, the truth is unaltered with respect to the party that conveys it. Logic is rather immovable that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious
Q1When it is your turn to get waved on when youre not ready just man up, hand over additional acres and no QQ. Just like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
I can agree with that. Its a rather odd thing to say though considering it has no relevance to anything I've said. Nowhere have I tried to say a truth is untrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
I agree that the truth is the truth regardless of who conveyed it, but certainly when you do the same (or worse) than what you act outraged about it indeed does make you hypocrites, so Felonious is correct. Also there is the problem that much of what your side is claiming simply is not the truth. The pats that were true have already long since been admitted and apologized for with beyond full reparations offered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
To all of the people who support and/or are involved in this aggression towards Emeriti, just realize the precedent that is being made here. This is the first dealbreak that has been made that hasn't been instantly rejected as bad. In other words, a dealbreak has now gone from "never should happen" to "well, it depends."
The conversation that happened in Emeriti's council channel is unacceptable to most rational people, but it is very common in all leadership channels to at least be discussed. The truly ethical people usually squash it before it materializes.
What this dealbreak means for the rest of the kingdoms on this server is that now a dealbreak is open to interpretation. Can we dealbreak now because a kingdom is being a bully and not accepting a CF? Can we dealbreak now because you have a yr 4 CF with a kingdom and another friendly kingdom has a yr 3.9 CF with you, and they notice you as a tactical move to prevent the other kingdom from being farmed? Can we dealbreak because a kingdom is running away? Can we dealbreak now because of a hit made into war? Can we dealbreak because a kingdom stole gold from an ally to fund their current war? The answer to all of those questions AND what Emeriti did is "no."
There should never be any circumstance in utopia where a deal is broken. Period. Final. End of statement. The moment we start opening up things like this to interpretation, all deals made are severely weakened because you never know who the next guy will be that comes along as rationalizes it like flogger has done along with his 8 kingdoms or however many he has as his army.
It's a very bad situation all together and I just want to say shame on everyone that is involved.
Actually Aqua,
Felonious did deny it several times to me. Elements were denied by you as well, then those elements clarified and recanted by you later. "Reparations" have been at the heart of the debate about the AWAR being appropriate but not the debate that Emeriti were wrong. Think of it this way, in a proceeding, we first establish guilt. The second part is where we establish sentence. Emeriti's argument is with sentencing.
The character of pyromaniacs is completely irrelevant with respect to that question or the fact that Emeriti were involved in wrongdoing. The fact that someone else has done worse in the past is not relevant in any way to your own wrongdoing. That is why her comment is completely not bearing on the conversation. Pyromaniacs never hit into someone elses EoWCF or encouraged an ally to do the same. That is the wrong which we are discussing.
Pyromaniacs was actioned by the developers for another action which is unrelated to the topic of this AWAR and as the sentence was established by the developers is beyond our review here. Pyromaniacs stole gold from a former ally last age, which is also unrelated to this AWAR and certainly of a very different character than the offense here. You (ASF) and I briefly debated the relative evils of the admittedly shady play Emeriti did to us last age. In your opinion stealing the gold from an ally was worse but on average balanced the shady play of Emeriti. In my opinion, the shady play of Emeriti last age was worse than the gold stealing and so in no way was any parity met.
However, given that all of these acts are unrelated, no hypocrisy can attach, except with respect to any holier than thou representations, which pyromaniacs has never made. However, others have pretended to be completely without fault and 100% clean. They have been and remain wrong and have yet to admit that they were wrong both in their representations of being 100% clean or their abusive comments to me. Ergo, they should remain silent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
No Godly, the first question is: Given that the "deal" was originated based upon a pattern of deception and a conspiracy to use unethical play, was there a deal in fact at all? If a conspiracy can be used to encourage or force a deal which is then enforceable, what precedent does that set?
Yes. When you agree to a deal, it is a deal. You know how many deals I've forced in utopia just based on the threat of action? I got an EOA CF from Emeriti this round just by threatening to hit their banks. I also forced munk to change his province name.
Now the next time anyone makes a deal, they'll have to consider... hmm is this really a deal? Is something that I've done in previous rounds going to cause them to reneg? Are the circumstances for forcing the deal going to be scrutinized? It's a slippery slope and I'm really uncomfortable with where this is going.
There is no hiding from the fact that Emeriti's tactics with Bour were shady at best but its hardly worse than anything any kingdom has done in the last few ages. It seems to me that this gb/awar was planned long before this event but that is just my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Emeriti were wrong for what they did with Bour
BB shouldn't have deal broken
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones