The whitelist was an unfair advantage that was highly abusable and extremely inefficient for support to maintain. It was already made clear what you need to do, and couples still have playing options if they wish to continue to play from one IP.
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The whitelist was an unfair advantage that was highly abusable and extremely inefficient for support to maintain. It was already made clear what you need to do, and couples still have playing options if they wish to continue to play from one IP.
You seem to fail to notice the No-Multi-ing rule that we have. Whitelist protected legit players from getting flagged and deleted. Now that its defunct, how are the devs going to address the problem of the now Unwhitelisted players from triggering the multi flag at least until everything can be properly sorted?
so it's easier to multi now? you can multi aslong as your prov's don't interact?
Bishop would ban me for that. I'm playing one now wich has about a million players. Increasing too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eus
I guess they could give a months notice and then block interactions. The whitelist is defunct because we don't need to flag people from the same ip as allowed to interact.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
can you or can you not multi aslong as your prov's don't interact?
cos then i could theoretically make a farm for someone and they could make a farm for me and it would be that easy
You are only allowed 1 account. Of course you cannot multi.
Really? What options? As I mentioned earlier? Buy extra IPs? Use proxy to login? Or as Landro said - look for low security networks to login? Aren't we fighting proxies here, along with the war with the mutlis? This change generally promotes rather then demotes cheating, devs just force legit people to use proxy servers. Why would two people playing in the same kingdom and being in war with other kingdom wont be able to hit the same province? What's the "clear advantage" they get over the other scripted/proxified/xlogged kingdom, like the bunch there are still on lose? Why doesn't the devs delete and remove the OBVIOUS cheating kingdoms and stop annoying legit players?Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Just hit a different target. If I see you using a proxy i will delete you. FYI, google is awesome at detecting proxies.
Eus has a good point here.
Bishop, please explain how a couple will play from the same household on the same ip, and not be tagged as a multi
*Edit*
Yes, I understand they will automatically blocked from interacting with each other via the automated system, but what about the flags that grab people using the same IP?
yeah that's what i want to know
death to cheaters!!!
All our other anti-cheat systems are still in place.
how do you know if couples are using 2 accounts or that it is a multi?
The same way we did before - i'm not at liberty to delve into details of the system though.
So a few couples playing with an unfair advantage should determine how the devs deal with cheaters? Think about that for a few moments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eus
So in other words, couples can't play anymore, they're instantly cheaters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
You have lost me - this is a pretty simple process. Interactions are blocked, we still use our anti-cheat tools to detect people breaking the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by macleod
As a player I have invested a lot into my kingdom. I literally invested time, effort, and money to get my kingdom to 25 active players. Now, I'm all for catching cheaters, but your new dragnet causes all kinds of collateral damage.
My kingdom had/has a married couple on your now-defunct whitelist. I run an undead kingdom. How am I supposed to nightmare wave a target when two of my provinces can't hit common targets? They obviously both cannot play effectively within my kingdom now. They want to quit the game entirely if they cannot play together anymore.
Now, I am supposed to find two new players, and I guess pay the company you represent more of my hard-earned money for the pleasure of moving new people into the accounts. We just paid to fill these accounts, and now we need to do it again or go without?
This makes me feel alienated as a customer. Why should I pay to fix it this time when you could just as easily come out with a new feature in a few weeks that forces me to do it again? Why am I and my kingdom being punished when I don't think we have done anything wrong? All we did was have a whitelisted couple play with us!
You said the old rules apply, two people playing from the same IP will appear to be a multi as far as the old system is concerned. So they're multis, meaning at first they'll be auto-blocked from interacting and then what? they'll be deleted for being a multi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Bishop you can't delve into the answers to our question's cos you don't know the answer to our questions. Me and my roomate at uni both play utopia totally different KD's no reason to interact... how will you be able to make sure we are not banned?!!? need answers dawg
Last I checked, two people playing from the same IP in the same kingdom will be deleted, even if they're using a different computer. It's happened to me before in the past. I had a player who was cheating my kingdom and running two provs. I didn't know he was doing it, and he was using a different computer and got deleted. I'm not opposed to him being deleted as he was cheating; however this makes me feel like after time couples will be deleted.
cheaters suck, even if they are married.
The old rules did not state 2 people from the same IP would be deleted though. Stop making this more complicated than it is :p
Ok, well we shall see what happens : ). I personally will not be affected by any of these changes, but lots in my kd use a cell phone, and lots of people legitimately have a sibling, or roomie, or spouse that play. So we shall see what happens
Before you would only have issues if you interacted macleod (same to you the imp) - now the interactions are blocked anyway. If you play in different kds then you probably wont even see any difference.
I completely get what you are saying. This is the reason we mentioned the changes a month ago, so people could adapt their strategies if they had to.Quote:
Originally Posted by loki EQ
Me and my 24 wives are not happy :[
In all seriousness though, let me clarify something for everyone who is concerned about being flagged as a multi (and Bishop is more than welcomed to correct me if I'm wrong about something, since I don't handle support)...
The way the cheat-detection system works (and has always worked) is not flagged as a multi = deletion. If your both playing from the same IP and you get flagged as a multi that means your provs will go under investigation. If you aren't doing anything against the rules, you're in the clear. If you're a cheating scumbag, then you're deleted. Everyone seems to be under the impression that if you're flagged a multi then you're going to get deleted and that's very much not the case.
All this said, if you honestly don't believe that playing with someone you live with is an advantage over players who DON'T play with housemates, then you're either really naive or you refuse to look at the situation honestly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Oh, excuse me, Palem, for not giving out thanks to all the crosslogging kingdoms I've encountered in utopia for being fair to me and my kingdom. Oh, wait, they don't play from the same IP, so they do not cheat.
Bishop, google finding proxy servers? Oh, sure, ones that CAN be found anyway.
To Sean and Brian and whoever else works on utopia code - you have just lost another bunch of players. Congratulations on your lousy efforts in fighting cheating and instead forcing legit people out.
Their choice...
Scavenger, you could PM me these games, right? I am curious what kind of games that would be..... I bet games like TRAVIAN (complete bull****) in which only multies live......
Please stop pretending that you can't report suspected cheaters and they don't get deleted if they are indeed cheating. Not sure what you mean by they're not cheating, that's just a pointless and silly comment. If losing an unfair advantage causes a few players to leave, sorry to hear it. I'm sorry they aren't able to play on a level playing field I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eus
I didn't have cause to care about your anti-cheating methods until your company potentially cost me two invites/players. So, please correct me if I misstate your position at all; I am to blame for not modifying my entire kingdom's game-play preemptively based on information hidden in a blog post on upcoming anti-cheating measures that I had no cause to read. Is that correct? I don't think you completely got what I was saying. At a minimum, I think you should have a free invite weekend to clean up the repercussions of implementing this new system for us unintended victims--at least I hope we were unintended victims. If you did know and intend for people like me to be caught up in it, then I feel like I and others like me are being treated pretty ****ty. We're being taken for granted. We literally built what we come here for, and your policies are getting in the middle of it and messing it up. Really to do the minimum is to leave me with a lot of contempt for this company. You are forcing me to get rid of two people who have become part of a second family to me. That's like asking me to force away two members of my family. I understand that we might be the exception and not the rule, but you should work on a modification to your system to allow exceptions in your system. Otherwise, I don't see a whole lot that can be done to avoid alienating at least me and perhaps others like me.Quote:
I completely get what you are saying. This is the reason we mentioned the changes a month ago, so people could adapt their strategies if they had to.
Pm-ed Mr. Negativity :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eus
If you and your partner/wife/husband/boyfriend/etc both play Utopia, wouldn't it make sense that you'd both want to play in the same kingdom so you can help each other? (just like friends on different sides of an ocean can help each other's province) I think that many couples will quit if they are no longer able to play effectively in the same kingdom.
loki EQ's comment about NM is a very good argument. The introduction of changes to the rules (as enforced by the server) in the middle of an age doesn't just disrupt his kingdom's strategy. Bishop, you have played in organised kingdoms and should understand what impact this has on kingdoms. Let's say we have a couple in our kingdom who both play A/M. One is tasked with MS coverage (he/she picked mystic) the other (Non-mystic) is in charge of Greed coverage. These changes would severely disrupt the kingdoms plans because they can no longer target a province which was recently targeted by the other. This makes it very undesirable for kingdoms to have couples playing in them.
I don't understand how much simpler I can put this. More than one player at one IP/location was a clear unfair ADVANTAGE with 0 balancing aspects, and was open to abuse. This new system still allows you to play together, but without all of the unfair advantages previously allowed. If you don't want to deal with the balancing negatives of it, then that is your decision. Oh yea, and it also prevents MASSIVE CHEATING ON MULTIPLE LEVELS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Landro
I can't comprehend how the lot of you want to allow massive cheating just so a few couples get to keep an unfair ability to log each others account. And if you think that's not happening you are delusional.
So a couple who plays in the same kingdom, can't be banned for being a multi because they can't interact anymore? So, in other words, people can still make farms since the system for stopping farm making hasn't changed. Just now, they can't interact with their own farms. Like someone else said, they'll just make a farm for someone else while that someone else reciprocates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
So what exactly have we stopped?
Crosslogging?
Last I checked, people got a lot smarter at crosslogging and use advanced proxies or remote desktop connection. These changes won't even slow down xlogging.
Multi?
No, that will still exist. Lots of people simply play in several kingdoms without ever interacting, and never get caught. The only other form of multying necessary is for xlogging (points up) and farming, and i've already told you how they will get around farming.
So what did we really accomplish here? The cheaters will still cheat as that's what cheaters do, they find ways to beat the system. But, now, legitimate people that were whitelisted are now unable to play in the same kingdom. Don't give me that don't hit the same target line of garbage, this totally screws playing in the same kingdom. Very few kingdoms max gains throughout a war. Oh hey honey, sorry you can't be with the kingdom chain, why don't you just max gains and hopefully hubby doesn't have to hit anybody you hit at some point in the war or intelled or sent a message to, or farted at.
If you're going to change the system, at least change it to something that will actually work. And then maybe we'll deal with not being able to play with our house-mates anymore
How unfair it is that we want to play TOGETHER? In fact I didn't left this game when the ownership changed was because my wife asked to play together, since it can be done legit. That is just killed now..... In all fairness..... is it fair? What kind of advantage are we talking about really? The couple logging each other? Now THAT's silly and I can't believe you really think that's an advantage over these scripted kingdoms out there....Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
I do not deny that this has been abused but the new system will make couples a liability to organised kingdoms. That's swinging the balance a bit to extreme to the other side. Perhaps a compromise could be to allow 1 or 2 couples per kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Do you not understand that this throws a monkey wrench in my kingdom's ability to function effectively? Also, Dharan, condescension is the mark of bad PR. You should take more cues from Bishop. He is pretty good at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran