Better than what was initially proposed. I think personally give elf crystal ball or equivalent to get 100% intel in war (unique to elf only, not mystic/faery)
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Better than what was initially proposed. I think personally give elf crystal ball or equivalent to get 100% intel in war (unique to elf only, not mystic/faery)
Faery needs,a massive nerf still. Not sure how that's still flying below the radar. Drastically overpowered this age and will continue to be as faery/rogue or fae/mystic
The WarriorQuote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
+1 General
+15% OME in war
Enhanced Conquest range
I see faeries as kind of weak now tbh... an undead warrior can easily conquest and if there is a chance to spread plague on top of that would easily make the faery a chain-able massacre target after 2/3 conquests. Especially with mixed in orcs dealing bloodlust etc with PFs against them. I recon in 5/6 massacares you could totally ruin a faeries TPA/WPA
Looking at it more I think it is really quite balanced. Only races I think need changing is +20% BE for dwarfs, remove credit raze or say they can raze for free too. Humans, not sure about there elites tbh. 6/5 elites would be better with 45% spell + thieve damage.
Love the updated game mechanics and changes. Thanks for the great effort. Just spicing up some more possibilities:
Avian
-25% Attack Time
+30% thievery damage
- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables
Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW
Dwarf
+ 15% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings
+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available
Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW
Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits
-20% WPA and TPA
Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW
The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time
Homes house 10 peasants instead of 8.
War hero does need a small buff. It's awfully weak right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
Faery's elite is a bit strong with the 8 def points. With the lower nw it gets even stronger.
The -10% pop is not enough to stop faeries building up to be unbreakable and pump sci and farm honor to increase their strength. Add Sage to that mix and you got a winner.
I've been playing Faery/Mystic this age with no particular exceptional sciences and it hasn't been that hard to stay ahead of attackers my own size. So far it seems to me that Faeries manages to run enough defense to make attackers focus on other attackers during wars and only time one hits them is late wars when most of the opposition has been beaten down.
Played Faery/Rouge the age before, when Faery had 7 def point elite, and it was the same then, though during that age I had to run a bit more elites and forts, but the result was the same once honor bonuses kicked in.
So, please consider dropping Faery's def down to 7 points again.. or increase the nw of that elite.
I personally think give War Hero Immunity to dragon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
A war hero with honor is very strong - all you have to do is get it and keep it.
Less wpa/tpa mods mean need more troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacky-T
It is median and median makes much more sense. Why should the kingdom with the huge explorer get more bpa than a kingdom of similar core size?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
Easily said, but few attackers keep it for long. With the increased honor gains from wars this age it might be viable, but the draft and training time bonuses seem weaker than the current warrior's +10% OME and troop loss bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
or someone with a tiny chained prov get punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastunicorn
Yes, but you should be comparing it to next ages personalities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
It'll be strange trying to prop up your median province to advantage when you expect a WD if those around the median are widely different in size. If you have a median province at 1200 acres, those above are at 1600 or higher, and those below are all below 800 acres, you're going to want to send a bunch of aid to the 1200-acre province so they don't get chained down below 800 and leave you with a much lower bpa per province. It just seems like a distraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastunicorn
of which, none has been more screwed than sage imho. (the sad part is, I am probably not even going to play one even if it gets fixed, so I am not sure why I am going to bat for sages lol!)
This. Word for word. Lets end age 53 now and get freeze time for 54 going! I like these changesQuote:
Originally Posted by khanmy
Sage has been imba for a very long time, and even with these changes is still a very strong perso.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
I do not understand what you are trying to do with humans?
Humans
+10% Population
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW
It strikes me as like a halfing without the benefits of quickfeet. As an a/T it looks to me that the Avian is a better choice. As an a/M I would go dwarf. Where are they meant to fit?
Because to win the war you either were strong with a nice bank and should be rewarded for it, or had a bunch of people who were chained hard and you show an inability to protect the "weakest players" in your kd. Either way for 99% of wars the chained & banky players should even out. And its not like you are punishing or rewarding the bank/chain specifically where land=bonus, you'd still be giving average kd land=bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
With a median since there are 25 prove in a kd you specifcaly are telling kds that to screw over the kd thats beating you you should aim to bring the acres on the bottom 13 prov as much as you can
ie kd it specifically asks kds to be land split and instead of encouraging a loseing kd about to withdraw to max gain for acres pre withdraw your telling them they should try to do something like
12 prov at 2500-3000 acres
1 prov at 900
10 prov at 800-900
2 chained people in the typical 300ish acre range.
to specially hurt the bpa/credits the winning kd gets. It just you encourage a certain play type of kd nw splitting in war such that whichever kd wins gets screwed with science/credit gains upon that win. Instead of simply rewarding kds to try to get a war win by being stronger than than their opponet, they also have to now make sure that the 13th ranked prov is as large as possible. Not a fan.
you guys destroyed avians, elves (6/4 I guess is okay for hybrid) but destroyed humans, dwarfs (idk why you made them 6/5 age 53 anyways) but i like the 7/4 on them.,
7/2
and 6/3 you guys just ruined any chance of hybrid attackers
and any chance of anyone playing these races LOL
honestly what do you do, sit there like a chicken, thinking of ways to peck peoples eyes out?
does the tactican mean you get additional spec credits from the warwin bonus?
Also I d like to comment that I think its too bad there s no personality left with -50% land lost when ambushed.
Why people moaning so much. I think the changes are "balanced" (I say this as they're not air tight but theyve added new dimension of gameplay) and call for more team play. Elves / Humans can play Hybrid but now you need to incorporate a few heavy hitters. Hybrids should not be able to bring down defensive turtling mystics / rogues.
This. Word for word. Lets end age 53 now and get freeze time for 54 going! I like these changesQuote:
Originally Posted by khanmy
+50% honor bonusses is a blessing and a curse. I was a marquis with the warrior bonus this age for a while. It took exactly 5 attacks (5 minutes) to drop me to lord and causing to drop my population bonus from 21% to 2%. Its very easy to counter; a semi chain will feel like a deepchain. And if you get hit while your armies are out for a while you ll be toasted. for a warring kingdom its not viable to use this personality, because its too easy to counter once honor has been aquired and it has very little initial bonusses. When it happened to me within 12 hrs 30% of my origional population deserted (as in army) leaving me with 1 dpa and 0.1 tpa when my army returned 12 hrs later. This personality will not get popular on attackers/hybrids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
I also like mean instead of median, although since it is a reward to the winning kingdom it shouldn't matter too much usually. Either is better than per prov, as per the rev1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Also much improved from rev1. I too hope that the army returns home with land *first*, then other conditions (like the <50% pop) check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
I worry you can "stockpile" credits near war end, and get more of them that way. I don't know how it will be implemented, but I'd like to be:
"Free building credits *increased* to the total of your current unbuilt acres".
Then stocking money near war end while leaving acres unbuilt is still an issue in theory, but the enemy could always steal it. But stocking build credits isn't helpful, because it will increase only enough to build all your current land.
"Instant population growth of 20% of your max pop if you are under 50% of your max pop"
I'd like this to have a sliding cut off. Could we instead say "Instant population growth up to 2/3rds your total max pop" ? That is both slightly lower (at 49.99% you get up to just under 70%) and more likely to trigger. Honestly it could be capped at max 10%, or 20%, but it really wouldn't matter much. (10% is enough because that is at least 2.35 pes/acre - with +500% growth that goes up fast. Even if base rate is only 1%, at 6% growth you more than double every 12 hours.) Having a cap of +10% might even be good because it means you have some time to get farms/food aid in while pop grows.
"100 books of science per acre based on your median province"
I'm still worried about the size of this for min time wars. I'd like it better if it were 50 + 10*days of war (so min time = 70), or 50 + .5/hour. Honestly, I'd like it even better as +50 bpa for winner, *both* sides get +.5/hour of war (at war end, via mean).
Races: still dislike human, can live with it. (Tis an ATM? In every sense? no focus = fail, or epic win.) Human elite is nearly useless, since it is strictly worse the *either* spec. Maybe a 6/5 at 4.75? Tog might still make it playable though, I don't know it's balance yet. Orc/UD look a bit too strong in comparison, but I haven't run numbers so I'm not too sure of that. Since both have fairly major weaknesses it might be fine. I'll look at them more closely for balance later.
Elves elites are also just abysmal, gotta fix that NW. That'll shake out in the power rankings though. One race with poor elite is ok, 2 useless elites isn't good.
Id also like to point out THIS age
Feary 3/8, 8.0 =>7.5
Orc 9/2, 6.75 =>7.25
Undead 9/3, 7.0=>7.5
And while him not against the concept of playing with nw/leet as it stands now a feary can easily pull off 130-140 dpa which is fine becasue attackers can counter that and still be in nw range by being larger (acre wise) than a feary since the feary will run well over 200 nw/acre. But with the change to all races but orc/undead having a max leet of 7 means that fearies are now effectively unbreakable to all races but orc/undead. however now fearies can run a smaller nw/acre while orc/undead has to run higher nw/acre and you make fearies almost 100% unbreakable to ALL races.
For example bit of math Right now relativistically a
Faery at 210 nw/acre ~140 dpa . 1000 acres means 210k nw 140k def.
orc at 195 nw/acre ~125 opa. to break 1120 acres means 218.4k nw 140k off.
with the changes you up the orc by 5 nw/acre (10 leets) and lower the feary closer to 7 nw/acre
Faery at 203 nw/acre ~140 dpa . 1000 acres means 203k nw 140k def.
orc at 200 nw/acre ~125 opa. to break 1120 acres means 224k nw 140k off.
as 224k *0.9 (hiting in max gain range) =201.6k is only marginally lower than a fairies nw of 203k your looking at it almost never being possible for a non-warrior attacker to be able to break a feary in nw range. that seems a bit broken to me.
You get to decide who you war. dont war a kd 45% bigger than you, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabuazero
Conquest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
I like the changes better. Avians are good, maybe a slight buff somewhere and remove 5% of thief op dommage imo.
Dwarves are good this time. Id say to buff them a bit aswell. Add +10 BE more or add +15% kills. THAT would make them very viable with the drawbacks they have. Its characteristic. (maybe immunity to dragon?) Then you would have all attacker races with unique traits.
Elves are good. no complains.
Fearies. No problem here.
halflers. No problem, but it would give flavor if you gave them aggression.
Hums. I like it, altho i disagree wit hthe instant spell bonus. It looks repetitive compared to dwarf.
Orcs: Perfect.
UD: Bishop, have you looked at my plague post? I believe adding virulence to the plague would make them a very good choice.
Every race is almost all playable to pwn. good job!
undead.warrior kd will be the best kingdom oop ... and also the most annoying kingdom! =)
ps. the changes seen doable for me =) i like it, nothing too strong, nothing too weak.
odd
Yes, a losing kingdom can still hurt the winning kingdom in some way. I don't see how this is a big deal, as now you could have the losing kingdom max gain wd before, whereas now they might max gain the bottom end, and the winning kingdom still gets tons of bonuses for winning. It's not as if the losing kingdom trashed the winners, it's just that they slightly lessened their bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Just a request: can the changes be finalized early next week? Last age changes were very last minute and this made kd planning hard (not every kingdom has their entire playerbase active in irc to quickly discuss the changes and who wants to play as what).
Regarding this set of potential changes, i just gave up caring, i'll worry about the final set instead of the rollercoaster ride that these potential changes are. That's not meant to be negative towards this set of changes, not at all. Whatever the changes, my kd will try to make them work to our advantage, just like every kd will. (Though it's still a shame we can't really dump faeries)
A mere 200 acres difference in the median province's acreage would result in 20,000 less books per province and 600 less specs per acre. That's an awful lot of weight to place on a single province's size even if it is relative to the kingdom as a whole. There's going to be a ton of jockeying around that issue, but that wouldn't be an issue at all if the game used a mean. I accept if you think a median is better but it's definitely a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastunicorn
Spellbook: All racial spells
does that mean MS is not a racial spell and will not appear on faery spellbook?
I think thats what it means Azn
Mods for thief or magic are for different types. So fearies still beat avians on they roles. Elf are fine the way they are...and honnestly, they dont need RM nor QF. and for undeads, what r you talking about? They were created with the intent of not eating anything. theya re dead. and guess what, lets say they eat people....they still wouldnt "die" if they didnt. farms is uncharacteristic. Its a unique ability. Make plague more virulant and youd have a strong race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
I have a question about the Humans. Is the 50% instant spells has an effect on ToG?
Edited: Plus a minor question as well, when we say about 50% extra damage on oping, does it return with greater honour gain?
Ya this is my suggested balance,
make the game more aggresive..and t/m vulnerable..:D
Avian 8/2 700gc 6.75 nw
Dwarf 8/1 650gc 6.5 nw
Elf 7/3 650gc 6.5 nw
Faery 4/8 1000gc 8 nw
Halfling 5/6 600gc 6 nw
Human 6/5 600gc 6 nw
Orc 10/1 900gc 7 nw
Undead 9/3 1000gc 7.5 nw
Originally Posted by Bishop
A war hero with honor is very strong - all you have to do is get it and keep it.
Getting the honor was never an issue, it's always been keeping the honor that was difficult. War Hero needs a little buff, is there any chance you can change it to looses 50% less honor on all incoming land attacks/ops. I'd much rather have that than gain 50% bonus to honor.
i think its all meant on combat spells. But i do remember self spells being affected by it. so its a possibility
that will unbalance many things. and make ambush too much of an option. I dont want to have anon wars..they are gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by zercousy
No, it was said offensive spell like FB and tornadoQuote:
Originally Posted by UtopiaKarateKid