The U or "How to fail even ending on 2nd place for Dummies"

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Originally Posted by Zauper

Bluorr: I think you misunderstand what people said. A little robbing, frankly, is expected. And sure, 5m is maybe 2% of a kds gc. However, it's 80-90 % of that core provs gc. So in return, if someone removed 80-90 % of your land, that would be reasonable?

Essentially, mass robbing one prov might not meaningfully change the kds gc, but it can completely ruin prep for that one prov. Kingdoms will understandably be mad about that, same as if you got a prov razekilled while hostile with a second kd.

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For the second time today: we haven`t cleared a province of all gold. We have tried to be with common sense: 1-2 ops here, 1-2 ops there. So that the damage would not be high. You think I`d come here and ask for fairness if we`d go all out on one single province?

The scenario in which, without my knowledge, somebody went all greedy and did actually clear a province of all gold - by all means, I`m waiting for the U to show me that proof. And if that is the situation and the damage was so insane, I will personally tend to making things right. I said "right" not kindergarten, women on period whims. In addition to that, as I see that the discussion keeps pointing in that direction. At the time of the U versus FS preparations, we have stole probably double from FS and FS still "ate" the U like the U was a mere trash mob in some low level dungeon in some obsolete MMORPG. With the risk of getting FS on my head. It is the reality.

bluorr.. i am actually trying to understand what the complaint is.

you stole from spartans, fs, emeriti etc. and got waved in return.
yet you keep on stealing from bigger kingdoms.

what exactly besides raze-killing your provs would it take to make you stop?

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Originally Posted by bluorr

So Bart you ask me why we steal from top Kds? Because that is the circle of life.

Even since the start of the age we had almost ALL top Kds coming to bottom feed on us, including Spartans and Emeriti - half+ or full waves, not mere random attacks. Our "bad luck" was that we won two wars in a fair short amount of time, ending up quite big and only 23. We can`t really fight back nor is there any real point in wasting time to try to cripple the big guys. So, we eat the waves, rebuild and move on. For rebuilding and moving on - we require gold, which we steal. All of you top Kds complain we stole gold from you but it`s hard to remember that you actually fully waved us for land/sci even when you had no reason to? I understand you wave a lot and you don`t always remember who you waved or not, but come on, be fair at least.

Binar - possible you might have threatened us with razekills. Understandable. Us smallies we gotta do what we gotta do to survive, you biggies gotta do what you gotta do to enforce the "order" and secure the top. Did we stop? We did. Did we come to an agreement? I reckon we did.

When a top Kd bottom feeds on us smallies, in the best case scenario there`s a "yea, sorry guys, we needed the land". Case closed. Within hours it`s like it never happened. But when us smallies steal a 5 mil gold ... representing a value of say 2.5% of the top Kds` gold, we`re Adolfin reincarnated. I noticed your opinion about us, just "another ghetto". If you anyways look down on us, at least don`t exaggerate our actions.

As for the regular "eye for an eye". I don`t want any of that. I don`t take this game personal. I don`t want to spend an age hunting and trying to cripple some top Kd down because omg they razed me or waved me. I got enough of that beef to chew irl. Within the game, what I can hope for, is to eventually manage to go 25, have our old asses on the 110% activity horse again and challenge any1 who did wrong versus me and win fair. That! - is satisfaction.

So once again, why the hell can`t we be good sports?

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Haha, this is hilarious.

You are actually trying to justify your stealing as "the circle of life" and claiming you are just retaliating. If that was true why the heck did you even steal from us at all? I think we maybe randomed you ONCE before you started robbing and one of our guy's may have retaliated once during the middle of it.

You also claimed you didn't steal that much and everyone does it... You guy's stole AT LEAST 40 mil (that is 100% confirmed) and that was from our core provinces. I'm sure it was actually much higher -- so you could what, burn it on sci? You also ignored or where flat out hostile to our diplo.... what did you think was going to happen once we weren't fighting for #1 anymore?

We got robbed by a bunch of kingdoms by the way. The vast majority DID just take a little and then agree to a CF -- I'm not thrilled about it but it's certainly not worth our time to go after them. If you had even come to us AFTER stealing probably 20 times more than any other kingdom I'm sure we STILL probably would have made a deal with you.

Look at it this way, your kingdom was specifically a BIG factor in why we lost to FS (not the only or even the most important but certainly a factor). No different than if you had waved us or doubled us right as our CF dropped. Sure it doesn't show up in the paper but it's a hostile action either way. And just because you also robbed from FS doesn't change anything or make it any less of an issue. Honestly to have an equal affect on your kingdom we should have waited for you to get in a war and THEN razed... I mean do you even care about the land?

Last thing -- YOU started this post. It seems to me that you have an attitude that the top is "whining" but that really isn't the truth. We are just getting our revenge and wouldn't have posted here about this at all except it seems to be the hot topic at the moment. Maybe look in the mirror some?

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Originally Posted by Verminator

The real secret to robbing the top? Predict the kingdom that will actually secure #1 and have to fight meticulously to keep it the rest of the age; therefore they cannot realistically waste any significant time on razing for punishment. Go rob THOSE guys all you like and reap the benefits of their own success. You guys just bet on the wrong pony.

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This is very true. I was thinking of making a tongue in cheek post before our conflict thanking all of the robbers for their vote of confidence :) We of course assumed that they were robbing from us since they thought we would win and wouldn't have a chance to exact revenge. Of course in this case it appears bluorr was robbing just about equally from both of us so he was going to lose either way :)

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Originally Posted by bluorr

So Bart you ask me why we steal from top Kds? Because that is the circle of life.

Even since the start of the age we had almost ALL top Kds coming to bottom feed on us, including Spartans and Emeriti - half+ or full waves, not mere random attacks.

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Took this part of quote as it is not true, Emeriti did a total of 2 randoms on you this whole age. So yeah you where stealing from us unprovoked.

bubiTWO is the problem. pretty sure he wont survive the age

Yea, dun think we waved em either, only after they started stealing we threw in a raze-wave.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Also on the left hand side is the war room button. Razekilling for stealing has better returns long time than aiding.

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I chose this one out of all of them to reply to.

Full disclosure, I'm a TM in said kingdom. I've robbed from FS, Emeriti, Civil Disobedience, Team Jwuzi, Panic Station, if were talking about top 10 KDs (at the time of robbing, as some have fallen off the pace) as well as others not listed. Those that had an issue with my thieving messaged me directly. We took care of it, me and the province I stole from.

You're right, there is a War Room button. Raze killing is part of the game. It takes a lot of time. To some, time is much more valuable than gold. To some, time doesn't matter, that is who we are dealing with now.

Finally, I don't deliberately steal into war prep. I also can't read minds. You can connect these two points together, but for those who can't - we can't read your mind that you're prepping to war [insert KD name here]. A simple message goes a long way.

I am 101% positive we got a full wave from each of Emeriti, Spartans and couple of more top Kds. Unfortunately, I didn`t think we`d end up here so I didn`t take any screens and whatnot. Waves come and go, we keep always moving forward. If I somehow am wrong, you have my deepest apologies Binar, Bart. If amendments need to be done, let me know.

We have a reply from the U - thanks! - You`re basically saying we stole 40 mils in that short period of time? In less than a week`s time? We weren`t in pump mode. We were waiting for a button press but they had a change of heart, so no army/sci pump for us for several good long days. Most stealing on you guys was done by BubiTWO as the rest of us were mainly stealing from different Kds. So what I gather is that BubiTWO is the masterthief of utopia, not only stealing 40 mils but actually able to use/spend it on ... things ... within few days time?

But ok. I`m wrong. We were wrong. And we did you wrong. Let`s fix the sh!t then. Admittedly there were some hiccups in the diplo. The U`s monarch has my message with my apologies, explanations and the desire to make amends. I am willing to sit down at the table and have a word with you guys. What about you guys? Can you show you`re the better men and ignore our rookie diplo mistakes?

stop lying. we never waved you

Wrong, you waved us for land, if I remember correctly. Part of the hostile from my thread awhile back.

@bart

no we didnt.
i have all logs and all papers saved

go check our ingame msgs. read up, and stop "beliving"

I support BinBin in this situation.

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Originally Posted by bluorr

Most stealing on you guys was done by BubiTWO as the rest of us were mainly stealing from different Kds. So what I gather is that BubiTWO is the masterthief of utopia, not only stealing 40 mils but actually able to use/spend it on ... things ... within few days time?

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He is pretty impressive imho, 0 fails against almost 10mod tpa:

http://s32.postimg.org/rookp68bp/Untitled.png

Tips please?

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

He is pretty impressive imho, 0 fails against almost 10mod tpa:

http://s32.postimg.org/rookp68bp/Untitled.png

Tips please?

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run more tpa
take tact or faery and cast CS
run WTs

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

run more tpa
take tact or faery and cast CS
run WTs

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No, I mean how do I steal so well.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

No, I mean how do I steal so well.

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run high tpa

make sure the one you steal from:

runs low tpa
has no CS on
no WTs

Edit: 4. Don't concede a Quaresma goal.

I wanted tips from the man himself. He might die soon it seems, all that GC going to waste, such a shame :(

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Finally, I don't deliberately steal into war prep. I also can't read minds. You can connect these two points together, but for those who can't - we can't read your mind that you're prepping to war [insert KD name here]. A simple message goes a long way.

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Some of you are clearly active in the forums.

The FS vs. U thread was started June 16.

So in this case you didn't have to read minds, just words.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

I wanted tips from the man himself. He might die soon it seems, all that GC going to waste, such a shame :(

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Dying in utopia doesn't mean he cannot post on the forums, no worries.

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

On the left hand side of the Utopia menu, there is an aid button. I think you can shuffle resources around if one person gets robbed, I think that's how it works.

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War room button also exists. And sure enough, you can use it to razekill provinces that annoy you.

Aid is limited by TB. If a province is at -4x TB, and loses 90% of their gc, you think there's enough floating around to aid them into tax?

@Zauper - scratch what stealth said about the aid. Doesn`t apply to our context.
@Aethelric - stop trying to pin the U`s loss on us ... Really. It`s ... sad.

The top thinks that razing is the way to teach all of the smallies a lesson. Then how come that age after age after age there`s always a small KD razed for stealing? And everybody`s cool with it. Even if the measures are extreme or exaggerated.

don't steal in someones war prep (no matter ghetto or top) and you won't get razed, simple

Bluorrr, there is stealing, and there is what you do. I mean, take our relationship.

1. You steal a lot.
2. We send a message to get a CF = civil solution
3. You decline
4. We get stolen from/plundered again.
5. We send a new message
6. No response
7. We send in a raze-wave.
8. We CF until YR10.
9. Soon YR10 approaches you inform us you will notice us and cancel the CF.

You can approach me in-game to extend said CF, else I cannot promise we will join in to make sure our gold is safe.

bluorr when you are talking to me you are talking to just another player, not a representative of the "the top" or anything like that. I know what it's like to get raze killed, it's not that bad actually, it's a part of the game, nothing is extreme or exaggerated imo, nothing in this game is permanent, it all gets reset at end of age - only thing that matters is what CAN you DO ABOUT IT, as Sheister pointed out: "Might makes right."

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Bluorrr, there is stealing, and there is what you do. I mean, take our relationship.

1. You steal a lot.
2. We send a message to get a CF = civil solution
3. You decline
4. We get stolen from/plundered again.
5. We send a new message
6. No response
7. We send in a raze-wave.
8. We CF until YR10.
9. Soon YR10 approaches you inform us you will notice us and cancel the CF.

You can approach me in-game to extend said CF, else I cannot promise we will join in to make sure our gold is safe.

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Yes and if you remember our mail ingame I have told you that we won`t touch your gold if/when the CF is broken. The following details of renewing/continuing the CF can always be fixed, but currently as you can see, our problem is of a different nature. So baby steps, trying to stop a big Kd to kill us, one at a time :D

And from the steps you have mentioned before. Do you have any complaints on how those 8 steps occurred? Because I have none. All got fixed and both sides were content, yes? But this is not the case here. This is not a raze wave and a wake up call. The U razed us and didn`t stop there and apparently they`re not in any mood to stop soon.

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Finally, I don't deliberately steal into war prep. I also can't read minds. You can connect these two points together, but for those who can't - we can't read your mind that you're prepping to war [insert KD name here]. A simple message goes a long way.

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You guys are just greedy, this thread proves that. You are also dumb enough to think stealing from KD B (some big kd) while you're hostile with KD A is fine. If you are hostile to someone, use your energy on them. If you use yours outside, you're fair game to be invaded by a 3rd party.

Sender Lord Sloth the Blessed of Darthvaderum (##:##)
Recipient King moar cookies the Sorcerer of Kookie Monstah (##:##)
Subject Re:Hey

Sorry about that, our target decided to hit our faeries and then run, bubitwo just really waned to send them a dragon as friendly present

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Originally Posted by bluorr

@Zauper - scratch what stealth said about the aid. Doesn`t apply to our context.
@Aethelric - stop trying to pin the U`s loss on us ... Really. It`s ... sad.

The top thinks that razing is the way to teach all of the smallies a lesson. Then how come that age after age after age there`s always a small KD razed for stealing? And everybody`s cool with it. Even if the measures are extreme or exaggerated.

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Thats the risk. Similar to the risk of hitting a smaller kingdom resulting in retals.

Top is boring. Too many CFs!

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Originally Posted by bluorr

@Aethelric - stop trying to pin the U`s loss on us ... Really. It`s ... sad.

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Dude I'm salty af, no secret. But where does it say I pin the loss on you? I agree 100 % with Kremlin. Your stealing was a contributing but not at all deciding factor. With 0 stealing we might have lost to FS too.

What I did do however, was pointing out that you and your buddies most likely could be aware of the upcoming FS v. U fight, even if your claim that you didn't see the messages is true. This making the 'try not to steal into prep' comment false.

What's really sad is that had you not stolen in the first place we would probably have had 0 interaction this age. Meaning that YOU put yourself in this position. Then you come to the forum to complain.

If you want to talk about severity of the punishment vs. the actual crime, please have the decency to not lie about the amount stolen.

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Originally Posted by bluorr

Yes and if you remember our mail ingame I have told you that we won`t touch your gold if/when the CF is broken. The following details of renewing/continuing the CF can always be fixed, but currently as you can see, our problem is of a different nature. So baby steps, trying to stop a big Kd to kill us, one at a time :D

And from the steps you have mentioned before. Do you have any complaints on how those 8 steps occurred? Because I have none. All got fixed and both sides were content, yes? But this is not the case here. This is not a raze wave and a wake up call. The U razed us and didn`t stop there and apparently they`re not in any mood to stop soon.

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You reap what you sow. Is that so hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by bluorr

@Zauper - scratch what stealth said about the aid. Doesn`t apply to our context.
@Aethelric - stop trying to pin the U`s loss on us ... Really. It`s ... sad.

The top thinks that razing is the way to teach all of the smallies a lesson. Then how come that age after age after age there`s always a small KD razed for stealing? And everybody`s cool with it. Even if the measures are extreme or exaggerated.

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How come age after age there's a small kingdom that thinks it's ok to try to take from kingdoms bigger than them, but is upset when called on it?

(p.s. yes, it does apply. All your stuff about 'we spread it out' is bs -- I went back and checked; our provs that got robbed all lost 40-50% of their gc on hand. You aren't doing 1-2 ops, you're doing 10-15 multiple times a day).

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Originally Posted by Zauper

How come age after age there's a small kingdom that thinks it's ok to try to take from kingdoms bigger than them, but is upset when called on it?

(p.s. yes, it does apply. All your stuff about 'we spread it out' is bs -- I went back and checked; our provs that got robbed all lost 40-50% of their gc on hand. You aren't doing 1-2 ops, you're doing 10-15 multiple times a day).

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When Zauper fact-checks, it is at least 10x more likely to be true than when I do.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

How come age after age there's a small kingdom that thinks it's ok to try to take from kingdoms bigger than them, but is upset when called on it?

(p.s. yes, it does apply. All your stuff about 'we spread it out' is bs -- I went back and checked; our provs that got robbed all lost 40-50% of their gc on hand).

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:) Ok man. We stole all the gees. From all provinces, all of it. 0 left. The U lost vs FS because of us. Sorry. Our bad.

Can we try to fix the problem now or we`re just wasting time writing here?

Sorry to put it this way but it seems The U is "fixing the problem" as we speak? It seems you have stolen GC from every KD and thought it would be OK. Sometimes diplo just doesn't cut it anymore. I'm still all for it getting resolved in a way that makes everyone happy, I'm just telling you you are in the wrong here by the looks of it.

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Originally Posted by bluorr

:) Ok man. We stole all the gees. From all provinces, all of it. 0 left. The U lost vs FS because of us. Sorry. Our bad.

Can we try to fix the problem now or we`re just wasting time writing here?

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You don't even know where I play. We hit you 10-15 times for robbing and you CF'ed after.

@bluorr
It seems pretty indicative that multiple KD's here stated you guys have been excessive with your robs here, and have taken action.

Altho FS ended up whoring this age, so I am on the other side of the stick this age, I am big on robbing top kd's personally. I steal into preps, allways have, allways will, and I dont care about reasons not to do it.
Worth nothing is that I have never been razed for it, sure i tank occasional trad here and there but thats the price of doing bussines.

Friendly advice from experienced thief, dont get remembered. If you are annoying and persistent enough to be remembered you will eventually get punished. And it wont be pretty.
If your guys did few ops a day scatered throughut their core taking few 00's k per province, nobody would care.
If you are arogant enough to cripple province beyond what its TB can handle, you will get punished eventually.

Judging from what various posters stated here it seems you were so agressive it was only question of time before this happened.
You can take offense and carry a grudge, but its probably wiser to just learn a lesson, and not push too far next age.

Luckily this razing is for this age only... I have seen razing carry on to next age

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Originally Posted by Aethelric

Some of you are clearly active in the forums.

The FS vs. U thread was started June 16.

So in this case you didn't have to read minds, just words.

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Can only speak for myself - am infrequent in checking forums. Its not part of routine for me. I feel you overestimate our forum visitation.