Age 69

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Originally Posted by MaximII

Two AW runs causing damage it takes 12.5 days minimum to recover from seems OP.

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Not having 20-30% WTs is your mistake not overpowering. Also you need a group of rogues for that and as I said - don't do MS at the beginning of the war and take care of the enemy's rogues. The problem of mystics is they don't want to spend mana for anything else than MS which does nothing to protect them from rogues. With the superior wpa mystics also can stop rogues they just don't want to use it.

EDIT: if you war against KD with 10 rogues almost nothing can stop them AW-ing your mystics. But this is called take one for the team. Just like attackers are being chained and destroyed.

I'm sure this needs some balancing, but these are some ideas I think could improve next age.

Goals:
Balance out races so we're not all faeries, orcs, and UD. Mix up personalities a little bit

Key:
Italics = remove
Bold = add


Races
Avian
-25% Attack travel time
Cannot be ambushed
+30% Birth rates
+1 General

Elite: 9/3, 725gc, 8.75 10/4, 800gc, 8 NW
Spellbook: Fanaticism, Greater Protection


Dwarf
Free Building Construction and Can Use Credits To Raze Buildings
-50% Building Construction Time
+30% Building efficiency
-50% food consumption

Can’t use Accelerated Construction

Spellbook: Mystic Aura, Clear Sight
Elite: 7/7, 700gc, 10NW


Elf
+2 defensive specialist strength
+30% Spell Success
- 30% defensive losses
+ 1 mana per tick
+100% land effect from Towers

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Invisibility, Fools Gold
Elite: 7/6, 750gc, 8.5NW


Faery
+ 20% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+ 20% Sabotage Operation Damage
+ 20% Spell Duration
+1 mana per tick in war
+1 stealth per tick

Spellbook: All racial spells and Tree of Gold
Elite: 5/9, 1200gc 1000gc, 11NW


Halfling
+50% Thievery Operation Success (TPA)
-50% thief cost
+12% population +10% population
+2 offensive specialist strength

Spellbook: Aggression, Mages Fury
Soldiers 3/3 Elite: 6/6, 500gc 6/7, 550gc, 8.5NW


Human
+ 30% income
Immune to Income Penalties

-15% Spell Success
+15% Science effectiveness

-10% gains/damage when attacking (affects all attack types)

Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet
Elite: 9/4, 750gc, 9/5, 850gc, 9.25NW


Orc
+20% Battle Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking

-10% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Reflect Magic
Elite: 12/2, 800gc, 10.5NW


Undead
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks

Basic Thievery (Intel operations only)

Spellbook: Town Watch, Animate Dead
Elite: 11/3, 950gc, 10NW



Personality

The Cleric
-30% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Immune to The Plague
Access to Pitfalls Chastity
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The Heretic - new
Wizards do not die on failed spells
Thieves do not die on failed operations
Successful spell casts get 50% of rune cost refunded
+30% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness.
Access to Nightmares, Pitfalls
Access to Assassinate Wizards
Starts with +100 Wizards and +200 thieves

Merchant - removed

The Mystic
+1 Mana per tick in war
All Guilds are twice as effective
+50% Magic Science Effectiveness
Access to Meteor Showers, Chastity
Starts with +200 Wizards

The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
+ 100% land effect from Thieves Dens
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda (AW is no longer unique to rogues)
+75% Thievery Science Effectiveness
Access to Gluttony
Starts with +400 thieves

The Sage
Protect 75% of science on attacks
+50% land effect from schools
+50% land effect from libraries
Every 2 acres generates 1 book of science
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 40000 science books

The Tactician
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage
Access to Clear Sight
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The Warrior
+15% Offensive Military Efficiency
Enhanced Conquest range
Access to Bloodlust
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The Artisan - new
Free building construction
-20% build time
Can use credits to raze
Access to War Spoils
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The War Hero - Removed
+100% Honor Effects
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon and Income penalty effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bo To

Rogue being superior to mystic is like saying orc's off is too superior to any def. There are ways to protect from aw - wts is some for example. This age I saw few elves who didn't run any wts. After losing 3 rwpa at the beginning of the war they spent a lot of gold to get 30% wts ready in 6 hours. WTs + CS + tornadoes + ET + FB is the best protection from aw and not using it doesn't mean rogues are too powerful. The problem mystics have is that their mentality is to get as much honor as possible by casting MS on easy targets. They have the tools to take care of the rogues they just don't want to use them.

40% guilds generate ~0.2 wpa/day. On mystic it's 0.4. Don't see need to buff it.

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Decent kd's have rogues that hunt in packs. The first rogue greater arson's most of your wt's away, the 2nd-xth go to town with aw (oversimplifying I know). If possible you recast cs after it's been mved unless you are elf, because why even have 2 viable races for mage. Yes you can mitigate somewhat with ET but if your kd is burning most of it's mana on not getting AWed why even bring mystics?. We'll probably drop them entirely next age if the status quo is maintained

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Originally Posted by Fiskinator

Yes you can mitigate somewhat with ET but if your kd is burning most of it's mana on not getting AWed why even bring mystics?. We'll probably drop them entirely next age if the status quo is maintained

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We are thinking the same thing. For instance, someone in our KD got hit with a 130 wizzie AW. 2100 acres, 45% guilds, that single op requires a 4 hour/tick recovery time post-war. Even with decreased damage with WT's, if rogues are able to smoke 50 to 130 wizzies each op without much issue, then there is no point in having mystics. At least attackers can just get soldiers and GC and retrain their army if they get hit. If a mystic gets AW "waved," they are not only unable to cast offensive spells the rest of the war, but they are extending the recovery time of the ENTIRE kingdom to over a week.

I guess rogues will be the choice next age if AW doesnt get nerf'd.

Lets all remember this thread isnt for discussing the specific suggestions its for putting forth suggestions so Bishop can easily shift through them. If a discussion is warranted then create a new thread with the suggestion and the coming discussion.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Lets all remember this thread isnt for discussing the specific suggestions its for putting forth suggestions so Bishop can easily shift through them. If a discussion is warranted then create a new thread with the suggestion and the coming discussion.

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I saw what you just did there.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

I saw what you just did there.

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Good point.

1. Make wizards trainable for gc
2. Increase damage on AW
3. Increase damage on wizards killed by massacre.
4. Link % of guilds to spell damage like it is now with spell duration.

0% guilds : 40% spelldamage
5% guilds : 60% spelldamage
10% guilds : 80% spelldamage
15% guilds : 100% spelldamage
20% guilds : 113.33% spelldamage
25% guilds : 126.66% spelldamage
30% guilds : 140% spelldamage (cap)

5. Remove nightmare from heretic and give it to elf
6. Give heretic a new spell : "Incinerate thieves" - Its like AW but on thieves.
7. Remove FG on elf and give it to dwarves.
8. 140% spell damage is the cap, even with racial buffs


Additional suggestion based on Zauper's comment (#50), that wizards shouldnt be purchasable (suggestions beside 1. Remain)

1. Wizards are not trainable for gc
2. Guilds: 0.1% chance of training a wizard daily.

I think wpa should be able to dropped dramaticly during war, but recovery should also be swift OOW and viable but hard during war.

Setups on war kingdoms have been the same for ages now. 5-6 ub t/m's and the rest heavy hitters. To see more diverse strats I think a change in mechanics is required. Making hybrids more viable, top end t/m's more vurnrable and heavy hitters still viable. Another thing that d be awsome is no damage penalty on opping up in nw. (Hostile and war only)

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Originally Posted by Humanoize

2. Increase damage on AW
3. Increase damage on wizards killed by massacre.

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Have you not been reading the forums? AW is so OP right now that kingdoms are talking about switching to all-rogue TM guilds. Why would you want to increase the AW damage? Also, increasing the number of wizzies killed in a massacre is also way OP. It takes waaaaay too long to recover wizzies, moreso than any other thing in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaximII

Have you not been reading the forums? AW is so OP right now that kingdoms are talking about switching to all-rogue TM guilds. Why would you want to increase the AW damage? Also, increasing the number of wizzies killed in a massacre is also way OP. It takes waaaaay too long to recover wizzies, moreso than any other thing in the game.

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It's like you read his post, because you quoted part of it, but missed the part that makes those changes logical (being able to buy wizies, noted change #1, which presumably you read before 2/3).

That said, making wizards the same thing as thieves is pointless. If you're making them the same, just remove one from the game. Mystics are fine, if not too strong.

Post #48 updated after zauper's comment

1. Give rogues -5% or -10% DME debuff to make them more vulnerable against attackers to help mystics. That, or something else to help take out rogues during war. Right now, you have to put in too much of an investment into taking them out for it to be worth it.

2. Please, for the love of god, get rid of anon destroying honour. That, or make honour bonuses from both war wins and war losses (war win would net you more, ofc..) more substantial. If anon without destroying honour is too OP, further nerf the gains when attacking with anon.

3. More stewards! MORE!!

4. Increase kingdom networth protection to prevent NW-drop bottom feeding.

5. Buff dwarf. It needs its BE%+ back.

6. Give Warhero +100% military sci instead of honour bonuses. No one, realistically, is ever going to get to a level of honour where it's worthwhile over other personalities. Right now, it's a noob trap.

7. Give NW-protection slightly of razes/massacres in war, to reduce the effectiveness of cows.

Noone want to play dwarf and human atm. And undeads are preferred race.
1) give back some BE to dwarf and it will be good again.
2) human is good as bank only atm. Hard to play heavy. Give him some -troops losses or + military eff in war
3)undead reduce to -60% off military losses
4)hard to play halfling atm as T/M their def is really weak. you can't reach good dpa like elves or fa. make halfing's ellites 6/7.

1. Restore the bug concerning mails. Make it possible again to see when a mail was read. Communication with other kingdoms has been horrible this age.

2. Increase eowcf length or buff the bonuses received from eowcf at the current length. Kingdom's exitting the current eowcf can't properly defend themselves atm. We got learnwaved by multiple kingdoms after every war we fought this age. It increases the time needed to get ready for another war and less wars = less fun.

3. Punish people who use province names to deceive or confuse opponents. Naming someone mary isn't a punishment.

4. Decrease the overall elite cost. It gets players ready for war faster and more wars = more fun.

5. Reïnstate the double wizard training during end of war ceasefire. It gets player ready for the next war faster and more wars = more fun.

6. Bart's idea to separate greater arson and assassinate wizards is a fantastic idea. Also thematically, greater arson would be awesome on heretics. Rogues have been very powerful for quite a few ages and this would nerf their power sufficiently imho.

7. Balance out dwarf. It's army simply isn't strong enough atm, 7/7 leets for 10 nw is too little power for too much nw. Also, thematically poorly designed this age. Dwarves are suppost to be fat. The fact that they need less food than other races is in abomination imo.

8. Rename horses for the different races. (for example, nightmares for undead, ponies or attackdogs for halfings, wargs for orcs etc.)

I have a vacation soon and would love to plan ahead. So the sooner the better for changes and end date posted :).

Make honor gained only during war/hostile(much weaker in hostile). With the high NW on elites growing KDs can farm warring KDs too easy.

Instead of flat 0.7 gc wages for Elites, make it 0.1 * Elite NW Value

Elf 7/6 8.5 NW would cost 0.85gc/tick
Faery 5/9 11NW would cost 1.1gc/tick

etc

1. anon should lower gains even more but not destroy honor
2. increase amount of honor gained in war and war win bonuses, drastically reduce the amount of honor gained oow, base it same as land gains for nw
3. # of wizards recorded at start of war to create a baseline, when war ends, 50% of the # of wizards will be auto restored if the current wizards is less than 50% of the baseline. This will encourage more wars but can't be taken advantaged of like 2x wizard gen during eowcf.
4. make WW points dependent on relative kd size (land) compared to the biggest kingdom on the server calculated at war start. (I 2nd Barts suggestion to encourage warring kds to grow and fight)
5. remove plague at end of war
6. allow monarch to select more stewards

I would suggest to slightly change GA if you put it on heretic.

1. Lower difficulty (comparable to NS).
2. Lower damage (5% instead of 7%).

Re-organize Mailbox:

1. Mass messages from monarch/Stew to other provnces should be combined into a single tab, from M/S POV, with the option to delete the tab, OR combine into a single message with the option to expand/contract.
2. Messages from/to other kingdoms should be organized as a single discussion thread? or at least put it in a separated tab, with the option to delete the whole tab/message(s)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paradise

Re-organize Mailbox:

1. Mass messages from monarch/Stew to other provnces should be combined into a single tab, from M/S POV, with the option to delete the tab, OR combine into a single message with the option to expand/contract.
2. Messages from/to other kingdoms should be organized as a single discussion thread? or at least put it in a separated tab, with the option to delete the whole tab/message(s)

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I would already be satisfied having 1 separate tab called "important stuff"

Don't bring x2 wiz training back. I loved it, everyone else loved it, but it actually makes T/M life much more difficult as they have to find pop space for massive wpa as attackers were sitting on a lot more also.

I love the idea for 2-3 stewards as well. I think that would make monarch life a lot easier.

I would also like to see elite cost and nw dropped. The crazy army values has been interesting this age, but it definitely made this age less enjoyable for me than others (just personal feeling though).

Increase eowcf back to 96 hrs, and to even it out make fort just one day. Dropping fort from 3-2 days has been good this age, but eowcf with high leet cost has made life difficult.

Switch to land-based gains. Take nw out of the game entirely even.

DO something against Honor whoring OOW. Especially the kds having 1 or 2 wars being in the top 10 honor. Who just payed their way with GC for honor into the top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephi

DO something against Honor whoring OOW. Especially the kds having 1 or 2 wars being in the top 10 honor. Who just payed their way with GC for honor into the top.

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Yes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephi

DO something against Honor whoring OOW. Especially the kds having 1 or 2 wars being in the top 10 honor. Who just payed their way with GC for honor into the top.

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I already made a suggestion to fix it: Apply the same mechanics to honor gains that apply to land gains. As it stands honor gains aren't affected by receiving KD's stance, RKNW and GBP, which means it's fairly easy to get a ton of honor without a ton of land. I did some calcs last age. If we had wanted it we could've easily finished the age on 200K honor by simply bouncing down high honor provs then quadding with core in-range into insane GBP, barely taking land yet taking 3% honor/hit.

+1 on applying RKNW on honour gains, and increasing it's influence.

Currently getting smacked around by the #2 honour kd (beastblood?) who use nw manipulation to get in nw range to hit and get oor right after. There really is nothing we can do against it, but our t/m's are getting taken out just before another war by a kd not even in warrange.

EDIT: Well, I suppose we could intra ourselves to reduce honour past baron, we're not part of any race anyway. However, I do hope Bishop and the devs don't intend for this game to head that way, it'd take away some of the fun for a quite few players. But it's something to keep in mind for next age if no change is made.

They use NW manipulation because nobody is punishing them(they are targeting my KD too). This can be done only when you are 'too big to fail'. And my suggestion was honor to be gained/lost only during hostile/war because even with RKNW when your target is marquis+ the gain still could be good.

+1 to either additional RS's or allowing another province to change Monarch Message. That would be supremely helpful.

Also, have checkboxes in the forum and a button that says "delete selected," so that monarchs and RS's can mass delete messages instead of doing it 1 by 1. It would reduce server load and make the forums run more efficiently.

the honour crown race is the ****tiest one with the most dirtbag plays. Every age there is bottom feeding ****bag drama with the honour crown, honour system is long overdue for an overhaul. Especially now with anons destroying honour, the whole system has gotten wacky.

Thanks bart and hopefully they fix it, because this is just bollocks.

I think the attacker race's elite offense power (specificaly undead and orc, but can include avian/dwarf/human) is just too damn high!


I have seen lots of Faeries around mid to lower tier KDs get broken at home thanks to super high offense orcs and undead after about half-way thru the age (when the sci-mods really start to kick in).


I thought maybe this would have to be the new norm and faeries would have to just train off specs to ambush...however realizing that a simple anon can nullify that thought and had me wonder what else can T/Ms do while in Normal Stance to better defend themselves?


Losing land and not being able to recover it as easily as an attacker could, especially after rebuilding post-EoWCF or post-Fortified, puts the race at a huge disadvantage leading up to a war. Also considering the fact that there are top kingdoms that are always looking for higher-nw land targets almost guarantees that t/ms can always be broken no matter how big they get within the size range of their own KDs...i can understand the futility,


Possibly adding +1 defense to Faery Elites would be the best suggestion to give (rather than lowering offense on any attacker elite units or boosting the power of Forts)

Recovering land from the odd oow random isn't too bad. Recovering the elites on the other hand...

I was playing Fae/Heretic this age and have a few notes. I personally didnt find problems being UB from orcs/undead that were my same size. The problem in my eyes is that the faery elites are so expensive. Due to them being so expensive, it required every tick of peace time going to ToG just to get enough money to be able to run a full elite army. The problem with this is it forces a faery this age to not be able to run high guilds to rebuild back their wizards as they need to run high banks/homes just to have the income to have full leet army and be prepared for their next conflict. To me, as a faery, I would have rather not had ToG this age and had a leet that was 900-1000gc. At least then I could have went into wars with 100% mana, not like 50-60% and could have run some sci higher than active in peace time lol. You get lots of gc as a faery through ToG but every single penny of it is needed to offset the leet cost, and there is no guarantees that thieves won't take that money from you. I can imagine it is very difficult in the warring tier to get high elite %.

I think Faery leet needs to be cheaper. +1 defense probably isn't needed from my perspective.. but it wouldn't hurt..

Heretic I found was fun and interesting, but I found magically I wasn't effective until YR 8+. Mystic was given double guilds as they are the premiere magic personality and it was deemed they need a boost to wpa generation to keep them apart from other personalities... I think this same mindset needs to go into Heretic. But since Heretic is a hybrid T/M sort of personality, they should be given 1.5x guilds. Maybe make it so they have -50% wizard losses from failed spells (instead of -100% currently) just so it isn't too strong. Heretics are very durable with their wpa once they get a good amount. however GETTING to that wpa is very very difficult. I couldn't even use my premiere spell (Nightmare) until YR 9 (and I was in an environment where I was able to pump quite freely)

Maybe also give Heretics a low difficulty spell that is Heretic only, so they can do something unique in the early age. Maybe Chastity on Heretic instead of Mystic.

Thief-Wise as a Heretic I found in theory I should have been able to run little to no TD's, but in practice you realize just how high thieves you can lose on successful missions. I still ended up having to run 15%+ Dens every war just to offset successful operation losses (as well as increase TPA) Not sure that is the intended design, but maybe a change could be: -75% thief losses from all thief operations (from -100% thief losses on failed thief operations).

TL;DR:
Faery Leet cost reduced OR Faery Leet Defense value +1
Heretic changed to have "-50% wizards die from exploding spells" AND "Guilds are 1.5x more effective"
Heretic given Chastity (on top of nightmares)
Heretic change to "-75% thief losses on all thief operations" FROM "-100% thief losses on failed operations"

I made an account just to suggest two things
1. Horses attack/ defense 2/2 or 2/1
2. Anonymity attack( distributes lost honor(of the attacked target) to other provinces evenly -i`m talking about the mates of the province that did the anonymity attack)

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Originally Posted by jmiedema

lots of good points

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As far as heretic getting a heretic only spell, its got nightmares. Nightmares used to be available to mystics, so it makes sense that it would require a mystic level of wpa to get good success. However rather than giving guild buff to heretic, or wpa buff, I would suggest just lowering the difficulty of NM. Make it feasible for heretic to get off NM waves on enemy attackers with out the insane wpa advantage needed now.

The War Hero
Protect 75% of honor on attacks
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon and Income penalty effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites

Loses: +100% Honor Effects

Post rough end date at the beginning of the age. Honestly kingdoms overall quit playing close to when they think eoa is. Makes game play extremely boring overall.

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Originally Posted by TommyB

The War Hero
Protect 75% of honor on attacks
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon and Income penalty effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites

Loses: +100% Honor Effects

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75% is way to much imo. Id rather see 25% protection from attacks and ops and +50% honor effects. A little more balanced. Remember even if war heros get a nerf by losing honor effects they will still be grabbing as much honor from enemies as before, making life miserable for non WH.

I know I am going to get almost all negatives about this comment but what about a suggestion of complete randomness for all players for next age? I understand everyone has friends that they want to play this game with which i do too but it gets old seeing same kingdoms and players at the top. Some of the players in certain kingdoms may not do as well when they don't have the name or other kingdom mates to back them up every time that you don't get in the lower kingdoms all the time. Randomness would also spread very good players throughout the game and help new and moderate player advance in the game as well and make the whole community better players. Downside to this is it may make some players quit playing if they are not in the kingdom they want to be. Another Idea to make money for the game would be to use this idea but if you want to stay in same kingdom have to pay for premium account or so many credits to stay might be a good money generator?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beans

75% is way to much imo. Id rather see 25% protection from attacks and ops and +50% honor effects. A little more balanced. Remember even if war heros get a nerf by losing honor effects they will still be grabbing as much honor from enemies as before, making life miserable for non WH.

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I wanted to make them work like sages do for science. Would it help to remove the immune to income penalties to make them more balanced?

As for making life miserable for non WH, it doesn't seem that much worse than getting learned by a sage or hit army home by an undead with -offensive losses?