23.Quote:
Originally Posted by CannaWhoopazz
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23.Quote:
Originally Posted by CannaWhoopazz
April 7 of YR1 This time the attack was on a target that had 27 scientists... still ZERO gains.
one and half age years, still zero gains and one have the guts to say it is fine?
All the intel thats been collected so far thats about abduct points towards 30-31 being the number that needs to be achieved before abduct is viable. We dont know for sure either but thats part of the game, finding things out.Quote:
Originally Posted by gpimento
Perhaps you should start looking at science as a new system that you've never seen before and have zero data from which to draw conclusions, instead of the old system that you're used to and know everything about?Quote:
Originally Posted by gpimento
Got one I think Friday, slightly bigger province and kd (arround 5% and 10% respectively) 27 scientists on the target, might not have run any protection. Failed a day or two earlier, on a 26 scientist t/m, nw arround the same, kd nw perhaps 10% smaller, might have run protective buildings or 27 might have ben the lowest number to give a possible return.
Abduct works, and it works just fine, in 1-2 weeks even the ones that don't know how it is played can get returns from abducts.
Is not about what I gain. The important part is that they feel a loss and believe I gained. Plunder requires that there is gold (maybe runes is some rare cases). A traditional march/conquest means I get stuck with the land. If I already have to much land for my army size (or WPA etc) this is a problem. The raze attack, massacre, and abduct give me nothing so the target knows I gained nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madchess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Why look at just the total scientists. I got an alchemy professor. Target had 15 alchemy professors. [in war, 104% net, not hit] Could be based on any of these:
-total scientists
-Total professors
-professors in a field
-skill points in a field
If it had been scientists in a field we should have seen a few abductions when the targets had 15+ novices.
You could claim meteor showers are broken for mystics because you can't do meteor showers much of the time. Making scientists harder to take also makes them more valuable because they are easier to keep. Taking the crime + channeling profs from a thief/mage could be a viable tactic. Especially if you can abduct in hostile.
edit:
Copy to strategy forum: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...cting-num-bahs
Boooo abducting normal to normal at 110% nw target on 20 scientists returns no scientists.
Very sad.
Well I assume there is a great bit of luck and a part of skill involved in targetting at the lowest possible abduct. The theory of mass scientists don't really work alone atleast or people would have returns much earlier. I abducted a food professor from 7 or 8 professors in that category, the target I failed on had 84,5% in channeling which I think is atleast 8, so while it may seem logic I'm more a believer that a random dice is rolled to determine:
1 whether or not I get to capture a scientist (only if above minimum, which could easily be 25 insted of 27, but with a low % chance)
2 what category it is captured from (maybe auto fail if to few in that category, for instance 6 or more gives a possibility)
This means that even on 40 professors we could still see 0 gains for skilfully targetting while others might be lucky on 25. It makes sense if you think about it, at flat rate non random everyone would pull off 1 at this point with the right target, but what would be the point if I can take 1 from you and you are litterarily guaranteed to take 1 back when you retal?
I lost one with being on 28 scientist. He came back some hours later though.
Oh Madchess? Is that how it works? So abducts are like two "rolls". First rolls what science category you abduct from, and then a second checks % recovery of that? Is that what you are saying?
July 13 of YR1 A new scientist, Novice Dainthi (Channeling), has emerged and has joined our academic ranks.
July 14 of YR1 A new scientist, Novice Alvashjthran (Channeling), has emerged and has joined our academic ranks.
July 16 of YR1 A new scientist, Novice Thrythhildi (Crime), has emerged and has joined our academic ranks.
I havent got a problem with the science change. No labs :)
I'm just guessing but my guess would be the other way arround.
Say if 25 is safe from abducts then 26 gives you 1 in 25 chances multiplied with % gains and 27 gives you 2 in 25 chances multiplied with same factor and so on. 51 would then give 1 + 1 in 25 chances for a 2nd assuming 100% gains.
Afterwards if you get 1 scientist out of 26 you have 1 in 26 chances for any scientist, so basically rolling a 25 sided dice on the first probability and a 26 sided to determine who will be abducted once gains is confirmed.
It could be by a factor of 20, the random factor could be much less significant, or it could be much more complicated, but this would be my sugestion.
My KD mate had 20 scientists. On an abduct, he lost a Professor.
Following are relevant details:
My KD is about 90% the size of the attacker's KD.
My KD mate is about 91% the size of the attacker.
Non anon attack. Avian tactician attacker. Elf mystic defender.
From this, it doesn't seem like there's a threshold above which scientists start getting abducted. It seems more like the more professors you have, the higher are the chances of getting a scientist as long as KD and Province NW factor is in your favour. Perhaps a lot of abducts early on failed because most of the scientists were still novice and graduates.
he had 20 and lost 1? maybe it is all chance based like nb cure of plague after all
Did an abduct, got 0 scientists. Target probably had 25 or so.
I did one without looking and got zero, but I killed some people. I cast a couple of amnesia spells before hand so the abduct wouldn't hurt them as much. It's that I care, even in retaliation.
The last few days attackers in my KD has begun cashing in on the unfair advantage they have over TMs.. getting gains on provs +-10%, and similar KDs, with about 30ish Scientists.. As i predicted the most active attackers are soaring ahead of our TMs in a big way, the worst being 33% ahead of my 31 scientists already.. I guess I could start marching with my beasties in normal, but atm that would take a full send on similar attacker provs, leaving me exposed to some very heavy petting.. the Revelate spell, which is all but crap doesnt really help that much (I guess we'll be slightly ahead of other TMs).. the only thing that really helps is the cap on science, so even if the attackers max their sci first, we may be able to catch up eventually.. but, perhaps you should introduce some insanely hard op next age, like KN Scientists or something, to make up for this? or atleast de-nerf our leets a little bit?
Forces from An unknown province from lalala (x:y) came through and ravaged our lands! They abducted zero scientists! We lost 10 Zombies in this battle.
Abducts are fine! :)
i did 2 abducts in war, 2 different targets, 1 target had 34 scientists the other had 31, still got 0. and they were 98% of my size and 108% of my size.
Maybe the 20% GBP + GSQuote:
Originally Posted by Migz
orrr it is totally random and the devs are sitting at their screens laughing at us trying to figure out the formulas :P
only failed 2 out of 5 and one was on a much smaller kingdom the other got 26 scientists. If the gut feeling tells you 29 scientists on a 70% nw kingdom won't be a good target it most likely won't yeld any gains, if your gut feeling tells you this is a prime target there is something wrong with your gut feeling and you have spent way to much time bottomfeeding. Hoping by targetting orcs and other attackers to prove universities are fine too, but so far has not been abducted back.
By the way anyone who got a positive outcome abducting from fortified so far? if so how many scientists did the target have?
Not me... my kd went into fortified and i took nothing all those days, now we are at normal again, and even attacking people near same NW and putting +4 hours I still abduct nothing (the target had 33 scientists)
So the argument of "it is too early in the age" was BS, in fact the abduct is just random extremelly low chance.
Old sciences was way better... at least they worked.
Check buildings, kdnw or personality. You can easily gain off someone with 33 scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by gpimento
I agree with Bishop, I've done 11 abducts so far with 7 returns, returns on a 27 scientist guy (probably luck) failed on a 26 scientist guy most likely due to randomness or to few scientists. Failed on a 29 scientist guy due to target kd beeing 1 million nw smaller, sucsess on 31, 31, 32, 33, 33 and 36 scientist people if I remember correctly, atleast none was below 30 except for the very first. Failed on a 35 scientist guy due to fortified, failed on a 45 scientist guy due to GB protection.
If it was not working or if it was to random I would have expected to see fails where I could not explain the outcome, I have explanations for every one of my faliures, some was even intentionally to test if I would get returns, if it is not working for you then you must be targetting the wrong people.
A fun side fact is only my first two attemps was done on t/m's which could not retal, that means I hit 9 people who could, some even in slightly bigger kingdoms, most could retal twice if not 3x and no one gave it a go, of course I got plenty of universities and guard stations because I anticipated retals could happen, but so far no one wanted to try out their luck.
I've never done a lot of learns before, this new system is wonderfull and great fun.
Checked here, attacked a tactician, 96% NW dif, 91%kd diff no universities and 32 scientists... Still no scientists abducted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Your idea of easily gain is a little twarted... maybe like a 80yo lady can easily beat mike tyson on a boxing match.
went up against a cleric today, 103% nw and arround 95% kd nw, 38 scientists and confirmed 21% protection from universities, still it yielded my 9th return so far.
You are aware I know the gain formula, right? You are missing something. GBP or gs?Quote:
Originally Posted by gpimento
I just confirmed Universities is a powerfull building had 46 got dubbeled for nothing, opponent had 32 and lost 1 scientist on each of my return hits, if anything the abduct might be overpowered at this point.
Bishop are you saying gs helps too? my kd fellors told me it did not while I assumed it did.
Abducts on chain-targets in war are ineffective. I tried to save some of the scientists on our chain targets before they died and I didn't get anything. Target was like 12% my nw though...
Also yes gs work in protecting resources, so that includes scientists.
Hit an Avian/Cleric, 90% prov NW, 108% kd NW, 29 scientists, both KDs in Normal stance.
No universities, but 12.5% GS, which was "14.19% lower resource losses when attacked" according to his Survey. Doesn't seem like a whole lot of protection.
I abducted exactly 0 scientists.
If withholding the exact gains formula is on purpose, could we at least get a little bit of a hint beyond "a random number?"
When did I say it was a random number?Quote:
Originally Posted by hav0k
Fair enough - I misread the description where it says, "Learns attacks are now replaced with Abduct attacks, which capture a number of random Scientists from your opponent" to mean "a random number." I see the distinction now.
I would think a baseline, like "abducting from people with <[x number of] scientists isn't worth your time," would be helpful.
thanks for sharing experience from when in war, I'm somehow happy to hear that gb protection and nw diffrence plays a role in war, it would be to cruel to be dropped 4x 1 by a t/m when chained in war.
Even as avian cleric with a number of barracks I only mannaged to get 4 a day once from abducts, it require a lot of hard work and many risks to grow that way, and it might only really be worthwile if you can keep them for a long time.
I guess I went overboard with near 50% from universities, and 20-25% protection from GS, that would mean I'll yield as much as a 18 scientist province on 48 scientists (24 is 50% and 6 is 25% of the remaining 24)
I attack a prov 94% my NW who has 33 scientists and get zero. A month into the Age and this attack type is still useless. Couple that with fact I still have only 29 scientists - I just hate the new system more and more every tick.
29 seems to be about the average. You should be happy you arent on the lower tier of luck :D
His nw and scientists are not the only factors. Would you be giving out if you hit for 10 acres into a target with GS, gpb and in a kd 50% smaller than yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by anycolor
My point is you should have reason to use Abduct attack in the game. If it's not gonna be fruitful then remove it or make it part of the game. No effect after 4 weeks of play means it's a waste of code. It's a joke!