New Anticheat Measure Going Live Today

Hi Bishop,

so as of NOW(like from my this post onwards),

1) is the new anti-cheat system up?

2) so my friend can log in at my place using my internet connection via a router, just that him and I must use DIFFERENT computers? The 2 of us are in the same KD by the way.

3) can my friend and I log in at the same time?(via DIFFERENT computers but via SAME internet connection like above)

4) do remind me of anything else that isnt allowed when playing from the same IP(i got the idea that logging in from the same computer was fine until I read one of the earlier posts)

Kindly answer my above queries. thanks a million!

cheers.

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Originally Posted by watership

Hi Bishop,

so as of NOW(like from my this post onwards),

1) is the new anti-cheat system up?

2) so my friend can log in at my place using my internet connection via a router, just that him and I must use DIFFERENT computers. The 2 of us are in the same KD by the way.

3) do remind me of anything else that isnt allowed when playing from the same IP(i got the idea that logging in from the same computer was fine until I read one of the earlier posts)

Kindly answer my above queries. thanks a million!

cheers.

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1. Yes, it went live yesterday. If you attempt to interact with other provinces from the same IP, you will see an 'Access Denied' message.

2. From what I understand yes (I will clarify with Bishop when I talk to him), because same PC same IP will still look like xlogging and could lead to deletion.

3. The new system will prevent interaction, but you could still be investigated based on suspicious login activity. The previous cheat detection is still in place in addition to the new one. For example, several people have made the silly argument that 2 players could make a 2nd prov that the other could use to farm, since that wouldn't be same IP interaction and could get around it, but standard cheat detection + investigation would still get them deleted.

Play within the rules and you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Pale

Two people playing in the same household is not an unfair advantage DHaran. That is ridiculous. What has always kept this game going is the relationships between players. Friends playing with friends. Couples are often the closest of friends. Implementing a system where white-listing is allowed and letting people play together, maybe even in the same kingdom, and then turning around and not letting them interact any longer is definitely going to have some backlash. The way the current system is set up, people will literally have to leave their kingdom and not play with their friends anymore because normal war strategies are no longer viable for them. They can no longer contribute properly to the war effort because of 'restrictions'. As for what the consequences will be for this type of change, we will see. Of course it's great that you are trying to find a way to eliminate the ability of someone to xlog script a ton of provs to kill a bank, but can't you do it without penalizing legitimate players that have been following your rules? From what I'm reading you already have your minds made up and are telling most of the players that it's their problem and not yours. You allowed white listing in the first place and made them comfortable with what was going on so you at least partially caused the problem devs. If it affects phones then the game is really in trouble and, imo, it won't survive. Hope you're happy that you have for sure wrecked some people's game experience entirely and potentially many more if it affects phones. I know this is not what you all were going for. Please find another way to deal with this issue.

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two people playing in the same household is a massive advantage, and easily abused. Go home, log your account, log your "spouses" account, and you can coordinate anything you need perfectly.

its a team game, and yes top KDs will instantaneously contact each other, but thats the whole point of the game. playing two accounts from your IP is pretty sketchy/ab-usable.

before you respond that YOU personally only play your account and your significant other only plays theirs, please acknowledge the fact that any couple whitelisted CAN x-log each other with no penalty under the old system. If you have a better way to stop this from happening please share. Whitelisting has been a "get out of jail free" pass for couples to x-log for each other if the other even has work or an appointment or w/e. Its been abused massively.

That is certainly true DDodge. It certainly has been abused by some, but I don't think that is the problem that the devs were aiming to fix when they implemented this particular set of changes...

Account sitting is more of an advantage then white listing, it makes the 'company' more money though so I will refrain mentioning it.

The no interaction penalty (yes its a penalty no matter how you try to word it otherwise) is a sliding scale - 3 hours of no interaction is not a huge issue but 3 days is (especially in prolonged wars).

Going to see if I can get this correct .... there is a kingdom of players that are all from the same country. That country only has 3-4 IP addresses available. Does that mean in a war only 3 provinces will be able to interact with the same province? So they other 22 provinces have to ONLY attack/op one province each? No, this isn't a ficticious set up, its an actual one.

Just another disappointment when dealing with support, mods and any cheating issue.

Perhaps I am still annoyed by the manner in which the latest blatant cheating issue was managed or mismanaged and the cavalier, non specific emails received from "support". Probably best to remain on topic, so as not to get "banned" for being so vocal, although it is relevant to the whole concept of cheating and fair play.

It is both a shame and a sham, not to mention insulting, to punish the people who bother to play within guidelines and label them cheaters. This malconceived attempt to catch cheaters who giggle at the current "standard cheat detection" methods and have successfully found ways around them will not be a deterrent to them, just to the less savvy average player. Saying it "only" impacts a small group of players who will just have to deal with it or move on shows a lack of regard for your player base, which is built 1% at a time, especially in a game struggling to survive. It almost seemed better for a bit, but serving up another blow to average players makes it seem like you want to kill it or is it just poor management?

Get another ISP? Who will pay for it? That is like saying get more Mods or Devs if the workload is "too much" for them. There are cost concerns for both. You have no right to pick peoples pockets, ultimatiums are rarely effective. Play another game...again cavalier. Mods are more deflectors for the Devs than Customer Service for the clientele, can they not find a balance or simple workaround to be effective in both capacities? The aire of condescension, untouchability and disdain is really quite offensive.

By stating that using a few simple strat adjustments will make this change negligible is incorrect. Enough little inconveniences make the play experience less worth the pursuit. During war, intel gathering and updating, spell casting and chaining are all often executed in a quick time frame. Nothing like lining up a hit, have others waiting to follow your hit for nw, mo advantage and getting "access denied". That is definitely going to boost team efforts and spirit and keep it all worth playing. Teamwork is integral in Utopia, it builds relationships, kingdoms, communities, all of which increase your player base and game playability. Why are you trying to break that down? Monarchy is already labor intensive, adding more considerations to it will also enhance the game experience right? I wonder how many will throw up their hands in frustration? How many don't even bother to post here, knowing unless you are in line it falls to deaf ears or worse, a minimalistic attitude?

Affecting phone play? What about those that must use them to hit from work, uni, or simply needing to be outside their home? Many carriers assign ips from a pool (Verizon). Just another nail in the coffin of the game.

Change is inevitable, but a more positive approach might garner some support from the people who play this game for the experience...the teamwork, the relationships, the community.

still waiting for my response to be answered. Page 16, comment 233.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by DDodge

two people playing in the same household is a massive advantage, and easily abused. Go home, log your account, log your "spouses" account, and you can coordinate anything you need perfectly.

its a team game, and yes top KDs will instantaneously contact each other, but thats the whole point of the game. playing two accounts from your IP is pretty sketchy/ab-usable.

before you respond that YOU personally only play your account and your significant other only plays theirs, please acknowledge the fact that any couple whitelisted CAN x-log each other with no penalty under the old system. If you have a better way to stop this from happening please share. Whitelisting has been a "get out of jail free" pass for couples to x-log for each other if the other even has work or an appointment or w/e. Its been abused massively.

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Why not work on eliminating that ability? Some method of verification of two players. I believe someone mentioned such validation in a previous post. Legitimate couples, friends, roommates will not mind providing proof.

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two people playing in the same household is a massive advantage, and easily abused. Go home, log your account, log your "spouses" account, and you can coordinate anything you need perfectly.

its a team game, and yes top KDs will instantaneously contact each other, but thats the whole point of the game. playing two accounts from your IP is pretty sketchy/ab-usable.

before you respond that YOU personally only play your account and your significant other only plays theirs, please acknowledge the fact that any couple whitelisted CAN x-log each other with no penalty under the old system. If you have a better way to stop this from happening please share. Whitelisting has been a "get out of jail free" pass for couples to x-log for each other if the other even has work or an appointment or w/e. Its been abused massively.

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A few xlogging spouses is hardly what the problem they're trying to address, neither is it really an issue. With irc and the intel tools we have today, perfect coordination is a breeze as it is.

The game is about community and the white list allowing people sharing their lives to play together, is to me not a big issue. I say good on them for doing what they enjoy together.

And really keeping it should not be that big of a problem, white listed provinces could be governed by the same anti abuse system that the rest of us is, with just a modifier, preventing the interaction between three provinces on the same target instead of two.

It's a perfect middle ground, it prevents the massive xlog scripts the devs want to stop, while allowing spouses/siblings to continue playing together in the same kingdom.

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Originally Posted by Shadow27

still waiting for my response to be answered. Page 16, comment 233.

Thank you.

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I'd like to see those replied to as well. We have similar concerns in our KD. Good Luck.

While I do believe that couples playing together does grant them an advantage, I do not see it as an unfair advantage. Quoting what Mehul did to defend your stance on this is foolish, the game is no longer under Mehul and referencing what he did has no bearing on this subject. The responses from the moderators have been unduly rude to people who have very legitimate concerns. This is a nightmare for anyone who enjoys playing Utopia in the same household as someone else.

The problem I see with this system is that it is too all encompassing and doesn't account for the technology that we have today. With Pimp, utopiaorganizer and ICQ/IRC/MSN/any message board, people can effectively do what couples do already when it comes to sharing information. So that removes one of the 'advantages' that couples have.

The other significant advantage you are stating they have is crosslogging. If you really care about couples and how they interact with this game, this system should have been announced with the age start and started then, not half way through the age. Also, depending on how interacting is viewed, this could make the game completely unplayable. You say don't interact with them, that is a very broad statement.

Does that mean if enemy A attacks husband, the wife cannot retal? That would be interacting. What if the enemy kingdom all chain the wife, does that mean the husband cannot do anything with his province until the block is over? What if the husband aids province C. Then province C aids province D. Does that mean that the wife can't aid province C and D? Interacting is a very reaching term and needs to be elaborated on because it gives us so little information.

The other problem with this system is the time limit. What is the time limit on these so called interactions? At what point would we stop calling something an interaction that is unfair? If a brother hits Province X, is an attack by a sister on province X 20 hours later still an interaction? What about 40 hours later? 10 hours? I know we could agree that 1 hour is a bit short, but in my opinion, three seems about fair. That would be long enough to discourage multies, but short enough to not cause a massive disadvantage to same ip players.

Bishop and Dharan keep talking about the massive advantage, and then brush off a significant disadvantage that players are getting. I think it would be fair, since they are mods, that they be unable to interact with any other players of the game, since they have an unfair advantage. After all, since they are a minority, and there are only a couple of them, it wouldn't cause much damage. But think of the advantages, all those illegal actions... oh wait, they claim to be legitimate players. Just like couples and relatives do. Oops.

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Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld

You seem to fail to notice the No-Multi-ing rule that we have. Whitelist protected legit players from getting flagged and deleted. Now that its defunct, how are the devs going to address the problem of the now Unwhitelisted players from triggering the multi flag at least until everything can be properly sorted?

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You dont understand it. DHaran already said it; you can't prove wether a whitelist is 'legitimate'. It may just be someone with 2 computers playing 2 provinces saying its his wife/brother/father etc playing - you couldn't actually verify this.

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Originally Posted by Shadow27

1) If I am spreading meteors on the opposing kingdom we are warring, what would be the time limit for her to hit a province that I have put meteors on? It hasn't directly helped her in any way. If I were to put pitfalls on a target for her, that would be a direct help and I can understand that. Would she not be able to hit any province that I put meteors on? So after a few hours and I have meteors on every province, she cant hit anyone in their kingdom?

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That is correct.

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2) Bishop posted earlier that there would have to be adjustments to kingdoms strategies to have couples playing in the same kingdom. Could he (or anyone) elaborate on this. What kind of strategies or options do we have.

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You will need to adjust the kds strategy with your situation. Taking your above example, I trust your kd has more than 1 mage, so split up the responsibility of spreading MS around. You shouldn't be responsible for op'ing any prov that your wife might interact with and likewise your wife shouldn't be responsible for attacking anyone who you're putting ops on.

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3) If I aid another province in the kingdom and they in turn send it to her, is that going to be flagged as cheating? Can we both aid a province within our kingdom?

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While I don't speak for support, I highly doubt it.



Sorry I can't get to more thoughts/concerns but I'm short on time right now :(. Just saw that someone requested answers to this.

FinalFantasyWorld: cry some more, please. "Oh no... I can't hit the same target with my multi.. I mean my wife." You're lucky enough that you're playing utopia in a time where this is even LEGAL. Just pick different targets and stfu and just move on -- seriously. Are we really to believe that your ghetto is such a warring powerhouse that you can't afford to make 2 separate chain targets?

This is the most friendly anti-cheat detection system I've ever seen in utopia and I've been playing for 15 years. "Access Denied?" You've gotta be kidding me. Mehul would have *deleted* you within 10 minutes if you and someone in your house were playing in kingdoms on different islands and never even interacted in any way.

Well on that note, the responses from Pale, InsaniTea, and Scorpio are all GREAT.

Most of my posts "defending" the new system were prompted by the hyper-emotional responses of people nerd-raging about the change.

Theres a case to be made, but if people dont acknowledge both sides of it, and approach it OBJECTIVELY, then its not going to get anywhere.
Thanks for leading the charge with some more objective and less emotional posts you 3 ^_^.

With that said, suggesting a better solution would be my top priority if i were playing in the same KD as my roomate (which i'm not). Requiring forms of proof sent in, (birth certificate, bills, etc) have been suggested, but its fairly impractical, simply because the game is so Global. I mean, maybe palem could be in charge of getting all whitelist requests from USA, Bishop all the ones from Europe, but that still doesnt cover it all, and i'm not so sure people will want to be shipping off packages of "proof of two people" via international shipping haha.

And it still wouldnt solve the problem of couples getting whitelisted, then abusing it. A husband can still get his spouse whitelisted and then run both provinces himself. The entire premise of the game is that each player runs One province only... their own. Once someone is whitelisted they effectively can play two provinces with no penalty... which IS a huge advantage, even more so at lower levels and ghettos than in top KDs where everyone is hyper-active anyways.

I really dont see a solution, aside from putting a penalty on same IPs that play in the same KD. I mean i'm looking at it completely objectively, i have nothing against two spouses playing together and having fun, and neither do the devs. Thats why the people that are spouting off irrationally saying that the devs "WANT to PUNISH couples", is just a rage response. If you take a moment and take a deep breath you will realize that no developer is going to make a change with that goal.