why not just stop the nonsense back and forth and just raze it for him if you have any balls
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why not just stop the nonsense back and forth and just raze it for him if you have any balls
Sparta has admitted we made a mistake, we are going to play more straight up in the future (doesnt mean we wont get revenge if we feel wronged, just that there will be no tricky diplo or anything similar involved in getting revenge), we know we messed up even if we do not think we are as bad as ppl flaming us say.
But spartan's having made a big mistake does not give a free pass to other kds to do what ever ****ty or double dealing thing they want. A huge issue here (for sparta) is the bs double standard. Yes sparta needs to clean up and it will. But when emerati gives us written notice that they are going to raze us, then claims we DB them because we drop the now defunct EOA CF, then farms us for land saying they will not keep, then continues to farm us for land even when razes would do more damage and say they can keep it if they want to.... well saying that what they do is not an issue, and that sparta's mistakes are the only thing that matter, is just BS. This is exactly the type of behavior that leads less established kds to think that tricky play is the law of the land at the top.
I'm wondering.. how do you intra raze 584 acres distributed among 5 provinces when a single raze probably destroys twice the land or more?
Anyway seems silly to switch to trads at this point. Do they need the credits? :)
So many strawmen hurt in the making of this thread
"We made a mistake but thats okey cause we will improve though we havent really improved at all but we reallly will for sure this time!! So thats why nobody is allowed to be pissed at us cause we will improve albeit we never actually have improved in the first place!"Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
You cheated, you tried to cheat again and again and play ****ty. What you fail to understand you're the root of the problem nobody else.
I never said anything like what you quoted. I never said it was ok, or that nobody should be pissed at us. Thank you for the flame though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
I don't particularly care, just want them to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
If they are going to farm sparta for land its not like sparta can stop them, why not just call it farming if thats what it is?
Because that's how utopia works. No one intervenes if there's nothing to gain, but intervening with the "purpose" of gaining is frowned upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
we gained nothing(aside from a misclick 46 acre trad with 30 hour return time or something, I apologize). but yet...well just watch :) we know it's coming
White knights? Your rebuttle? By the way didn't I call this and was flamed down saying I was wrong? And side note doesn't separate yourself now from all of this goodwitch. You jumped on the bandwagon. ..little late to be jumping off
Admitting to have made mistakes and dealbreaking... Does this mean Spartans will give Divinity their acres and honour back?
How honest?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
We dont admit it was a DB since we have suffered BS moves like that and no one called foul then. Although the past problems are not the issue, and im not trying to deflect. Point is although we did **** play, and are not going to **** play like that again, we still don't believe it was a DB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Folle
As for divinity getting acres and honour, IDK. No compromise has been reached and I don't think the parties are even talking any more.
So you didnt have a eoa cf and you didnt break the cf? lol, still scummy, always will be scummy ****.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
Korp,,, the one thing that matters here is that..
Emiriti asked the uto police if they would be retaled attacking spartan.
Police said ok, but as police they cant not gain from it, or they wont get support.
If emiriti keeps land they db the police and uto community. And they should be equally punished as sparta or not worse cause the are under the "badge" doing job.I would like to see a date when land gets destroyed.
Can we trust the big kds in this game to demand such justice and punish emiriti ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-chingatumadre
the police are corrupt
First I would like to see a date when spartans agree to terms set by persian. Once that is done then you can see if the land is razed or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by el-chingatumadre
By not setting things right, why should others respect your CF's in the future?Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
Next age(s) wont be very fun for you guys when all kingdoms knows they can break any CF with you.
Nobody will police those DB's, since you clearly believe its ok to DB yourself.
10 days to 3 weeks left of the current age. Spartans wont be allowed to win anything, your age is over.
You have a chance to clear the air and start next age with good relations, instead of ruining both this and next age.
It's very hard to find any logic in your lack of willingness to improve your ways.
Tell that to Divinity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Folle
Lol.. 55 pages and zero progress achieved. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by jo.t.reid
Aces I am not separating us from anything. Simply stated that we gained nothing. We stand by what we did. Some kingdoms do things cause they actually care about the game and not charts, crowns etc. We are such a kingdom.
We are also by the way not an ABS kingdom , so this is not about Absalom versus non Absalom as they try to spin it now.
Emeriti has been nothing but fair. They have given Spartans every chance to make things right.
Divinity has been patiently trying to sort this out with Spartans but Heaven/Bart is not willing to even try to find a middle ground and is still trying to spin things.
It's the same story as always, Spartans demanding stuff, wheeling and dealing and playing kingdoms against each other.
Only last 20, or so...Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB
Well no change for us there. No one has ever policed DB's against us or other non allied kds or seemed to care at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Folle
For any curious, this is the last offer Bart made to emirati and div before talks broke down.
1. We pull out of honor crown race
2. We surrender current war
3. We'll war emeriti afterwards
4. We'll EOA CF + next age EOA CF both emeriti and divinity
That combined with eating the oow hits and pks we suffered, and divinity getting back land and/or honour from emerati if they want to (emerati got more from us than we got from div). Sparta suffers significantly, emerati doesn't benefit from policing, and div gets back what was lost. They didn't like the offer and that's fine. They are in a position to farm us / punish us as much as they like just as we are in a position to ignore demands that we feel are to onerous.
Not that pointing out bad behaviour in others excuses any thing we have done, but bear in mind we are being farmed by a kd that started the awar last age by **** playing another kd so severely that it got the whole server involved. Very next age this kd is razing down another kd and telling us we are **** and will always be **** and will never change our ways? lol. We can and will clean up our act, and from what i can tell we wont have to go far to be playing a much cleaner game than them.
Why does Bart insist on offering things that no one but him wants?
All we asks for is a change in attitude, no more dealbreaks and that they come to an agreement with Divinity over their dealbreak.
I dont know details, I have no idea why war emerati is in there for example. But divinity wants significantly more than what they lost. Pretty easy for them to get land/honour back from emerati which seems like a no brainer since emerati said at one point that they wouldnt keep/benifit. We lost a lot and suffered multiple pks. If we are supposed to agree to raze down our honour 40k or let them decide who we get war next age to come to a deal... well we'd rather just keep getting farmed by emerati.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
F.. the Police
Is there a GGB on atm?
Lol nice fake war Spartans. Well both Spartans I guess haha. So just asking are fake wars OK now.
Would appear so.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
by fair u mean emeriti using this whole conflict saying theyre policing and not gaining anything but then they simply want acres? how good is that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
as if.. you just using this conflict to get free acres. cant even answer a yes/no question. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Ever heard of punitive damages?Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
And you are a good judge of what's fair and what's not? wait...didn't all this happen because you were caught? I give it 24 -72 hours or so before you show Utopia once again how fair you are.
When you screw up like this and waste someone's time, mess up their plans, plus hurt them and their ability to pump on those acres, you actually think you can just hand it back and bygones will be bygones? Punishment needs to be severe enough that you don't do it again. If you deal break like this, especially when you know you're doing it and it's going to cause drama and crying, whatever crap comes your way you've earned and you deserve. They're the wronged, they get to choose what's just punishment (within reason of course). Asking for more than they lost is perfectly justified since they also lost pump time on those acres, have to pump and give effort, and have lost time to pursue their goals. They didn't just lose acres. If you expect them to just take returned acres for all of this trouble, you're insane. Spartans' monarch knew exactly what he was doing and what the probably response was going to be. Yet he still chose this. If you don't want to take the punishment for a dealbreak of this nature, then don't dealbreak.
Punitive damages. so this means we are using real world legal systems as a basis? so what this is like in real life where you start a fight with some one wrongly, but then get the **** kicked out of you by that person and their friend, but then they are also the judges who rule in the case brought against you for starting the fight and guy you started a fight with gets to decide your punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Oh wait, no legal system works that way because it would be stupid to let a wronged party be the sole decider of punishment against the person(s) who wronged them.
I dont get why Emeriti isnt just razing those acres now, so there are no issues... The reason could be to get a free pump on those acres which in turn would also have to be policed and razed down/removed be it science or wpa, otherwise they have gained an unfair advantage on other equal sized KDs.
Also Spartans might have made a wrong move and ofc should be punished for it, and Divinity should get back what they lost and a bit more for the issues, that is always fair.. But it always seem like those that wish to exact a hard punishment (or at least harder then should be) are those who dealbreak or did **** moves themselves and got caught.
It should never be jusitifed to raze down a whole KD and make people fed up, the razing should cease when the KD attempts to negotiate to set things right...Also why on earth should any punishment involve next age? the age finish and things are reset, grudges can be held but if thats the case should BB have told Emeriti they couldnt be in the growth race for the next 5 ages for what they did (and what was believed they did in some cases), no it should not...
Talking about letting bygones be bygones but then asking something to continue into next age is just damn lame.
Beans/Josh/Dorky.... I do like you a lot, but ill be honest after 55 pages of this, please....
Its Emeriti, not Emarati/Emirati
I'm not sure Spartans deal broke. I remember how things went with Stoners. I'm curious about the wording in dispute.
Interesting, had no idea they were the same person, in that case I'll ignore all thats said by that person and assume its 100% BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loons
Here is the convo as posted by persians (divinity leader), as far as i know its accurate: http://pastebin.com/i38hxcmEQuote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
most relevant part:
Sender King Dirty Killer the Rogue of Moaning Murderer (spartans)
Recipient King For Science the Sorcerer of Richard -Dick- Feynman (Divinity)
1. You got until end of 7th to finish hits.
2. CF will be offered now, and only accepted after the full wave is done and no later than 7th (be it final minute of the 7th).
3. Once in-game CF is accepted it means both sides are in an official End of Age Ceasefire.
Agreed?
________________
Sender King For Science the Sorcerer of Richard -Dick- Feynman (Divinity)
Recipient King Dirty Killer the Rogue of Moaning Murderer (spartans)
Subject Re:Ok
i have at least one Asian that MAY be late "dick gordan" i'll harass him but ideally he should be last hit and ideally before the 7th. Otherwise sure if he makes it i'll accept end of 7th (he'd be like a couple min into the 8th at worst) that sounds fine.
Either way it wont go till like the 10th+. i'll accept as soon as last hits come out. as for CF yes both sides in an official EOA cf.
___________________
Sender King Dirty Killer the Rogue of Moaning Murderer (spartans)
Recipient King For Science the Sorcerer of Richard -Dick- Feynman (Divinity)
Subject Hmm
Would really like to get that CF done before I go to bed. Can stretch it until end of 7th but 8th really too late and not gonna leave a CF open when I'm asleep. So please just get your hit in before 8th, the guy can probs get more land/honor elsewhere anyways.
_______________________________
February 7 of YR9 Harry Dick (Divinity) captured 167 acres of land from OH MAI GAWD (spartans).
February 8 of YR9 We have entered into a formal ceasefire with ANCIENT SPARTANS msg 4 war (spartans).
^^^^^as soon as tick hit.
-----------------------------
not gonna rehash the whole 30 pages of back and forth but basically *at the time* we saw this as divinity being greedy and delaying on taking an eoa cf deal so they could get in one more hit... causing them to not meet one of the requirements of our eoa cf offer that only had two requirements (you have until 7th to finish hits and accept cf no later than 7th). As these things were both clearly stated and then us also telling them "but 8th really to late" in response to them telling us about the potential late acceptance we thought we had a very good case that this EOA CF was not valid.
Our opponents view is that despite being forced to offer an EOA CF under unfriendly conditions (they were waving us and would continue to do so until protected from retals by an EOA CF) that spartans were still obligated to honour the intent of the EOA CF deal even if all requirements had not been met. Or that we should have immediately notified divinity that the cf they accepted was late by a tick and renegotiated on the spot for a true EOA CF.
As it stands sparta has admitted wrong doing up to the point of it being an obviously ****ty thing to do to allow another kd to think they have an EOA CF when by your own reading of the deal they do not. We are holding out and refusing to admit that it was a DB or accept the heaviest of the punitive demands in any deal we have been offered because we did not, and do not, see it at as a crime of DB (although we do admit it was ****ty of us).