SWEA Vs Crownless AMA

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03-10-2013, 18:12
Bishop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araqiel

The problem is the admins treat people differently because there are no rules regarding fake wars.

It does not make sense to make a blanket punishment for something that can be done with specific goals in mind. It makes more sense to tailor the punishment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurking Ghost

The problem is that the devs should develop game mechanics so that fw aren't needed at all, and develop more ways of getting strategy into the game.

That's very hard to do tbh. We have already buffed eowcf and added fortified which greatly removed the reasons people used it before. Hard to develop a mechanic that means win trading isnt beneficial.
03-10-2013, 19:23
ZodZilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

SWEA were allowed a partial eowcf, you'd rather they were dumped out of war so you can vulture them. That would be as unfair as allowing them a 4 day eowcf.

At that point SWEA was up a ton of acres from the farming, would have had armies returned home (I assume), and were in war mode. I fail to see how this would be a vulture, or unfair in any way. It would have put SWEA in the same position as a normal kingdom farming another oow (which is allowed), except they would still have the benifit of having armies returned home early. Instead they were were allowed to farm acres essentially in a vacuum, off of a KD that full suicided on a third party.

As a side note for Korp, Mansoor admitted to attemping to abuse the war/FW rules last age in his 'The Climb to the Crown' thread... intent/offer to FW is cheating.

"Midwar Mansoor talked to Rage and told them they could end war now, they get free warwin. Mansoor knew Bishop would delete both kd:s if this happened so he tried to fool Coss and Proteus (who were doing diplo but not playing??)"
03-10-2013, 19:26
Lurking Ghost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

That's very hard to do tbh. We have already buffed eowcf and added fortified which greatly removed the reasons people used it before. Hard to develop a mechanic that means win trading isnt beneficial.

Bishop, I never said it was easy, especially when a game runs for several months (u can't test it very well because it takes too much time).
But I do think community has a lot of ideas, and when they are implemented, they should be slowly tweaked for every set. More progression is needed.
03-10-2013, 20:13
Araqiel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

It does not make sense to make a blanket punishment for something that can be done with specific goals in mind. It makes more sense to tailor the punishment.

A fake war is a fake war, no matter what the intentions are...
03-10-2013, 21:09
Bishop

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodZilla

At that point SWEA was up a ton of acres from the farming, would have had armies returned home (I assume), and were in war mode. I fail to see how this would be a vulture, or unfair in any way. It would have put SWEA in the same position as a normal kingdom farming another oow (which is allowed), except they would still have the benifit of having armies returned home early. Instead they were were allowed to farm acres essentially in a vacuum, off of a KD that full suicided on a third party.

As a side note for Korp, Mansoor admitted to attemping to abuse the war/FW rules last age in his 'The Climb to the Crown' thread... intent/offer to FW is cheating.

"Midwar Mansoor talked to Rage and told them they could end war now, they get free warwin. Mansoor knew Bishop would delete both kd:s if this happened so he tried to fool Coss and Proteus (who were doing diplo but not playing??)"

Kicking SWEA straight out would have been a huge punishment and resulted in massive vulturing. No one could prove anything (despite mansoor **** stirring and trolling after the fact) so they don't get punished. End of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araqiel

A fake war is a fake war, no matter what the intentions are...

Resetting pew pews war wins would have accomplished nothing. Kicking debauchery out of war early and allowing them their war wins would have accomplished nothing. Fake war may be fake war, but blanket punishments are dumb.
03-10-2013, 21:42
ZodZilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Kicking SWEA straight out would have been a huge punishment and resulted in massive vulturing. No one could prove anything (despite mansoor **** stirring and trolling after the fact) so they don't get punished. End of.

I still fail to see how not giving eowcf protection in a scenario where there was no real war (no hits into SWEA) is a punishment.

The only ones punished in this situation were AMA, by losing the ability to take back the acres they lost due to an arbitrarily decision.
03-10-2013, 21:58
Araqiel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Kicking SWEA straight out would have been a huge punishment and resulted in massive vulturing. No one could prove anything (despite mansoor **** stirring and trolling after the fact) so they don't get punished. End of.

Resetting pew pews war wins would have accomplished nothing. Kicking debauchery out of war early and allowing them their war wins would have accomplished nothing. Fake war may be fake war, but blanket punishments are dumb.

Or you could think logically and have suspensions / deletions. Those hurt everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodZilla

I still fail to see how not giving eowcf protection in a scenario where there was no real war (no hits into SWEA) is a punishment.

The only ones punished in this situation were AMA, by losing the ability to take back the acres they lost due to an arbitrarily decision.

AMA were punished, but so was everyone else who had the opportunity to crown. Absolutely ZERO chance of reacting to the admin's decision.
03-10-2013, 22:56
Elldallan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Because its ridiculously abusable.

Not really, it's an incredibly specific situation, the current situation you created where this sort of behaviour is barely punished(and thus encouraged) creates a much more abuseable precedent in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

We do not give account specific details to other people. What you propose is just silly.

I know, it's why it's such a silly ineffective punishment. 48h suspension is not much of a punishment unless someone takes advantage of it and if the only one who know about the punishment is the punished the chances that someone is going to take advantage is next to zilch. I am not actually proposing that because punishment should remain private but it is an ineffective punishment unless you reveal it to everybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

It does not make sense to make a blanket punishment for something that can be done with specific goals in mind. It makes more sense to tailor the punishment.

I agree completely, I just think you failed to do that in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

SWEA were allowed a partial eowcf, you'd rather they were dumped out of war so you can vulture them. That would be as unfair as allowing them a 4 day eowcf.

Yes that would be unfair but so would letting them keep the acres they gained as a direct result of cheating, even if it was somebody else cheating, take the acres, give them full eowcf and a couple of millions per prov to cover losses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sig

he's hell bias duh. 1 comment in game about black ops from opposing monarch and we get all 8 wars (7 legit, enough to still win) deleted

It was your monarch that suggested that you "make the situation benefit both of your kingdoms", the punishment is appropriate precisely because it is harsh, if they had just removed the one ww that would encourage cheating because chances are you wouldn't get caught, the punishment always has to be harsher than any potential gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Badass

Punishment was dealt out. Pew was suspended (for not hitting back)

They weren't suspended for not hitting back, they were suspended for abusing war protection and gb protection against an opponent outside of war at least as far as I know not hitting in war is completely fine, or since when did inactivity become a "crime"?.
03-10-2013, 23:13
Proteus

Dont think there is a need to talk about SWEA any further after the embarrassment they suffered this age when they tried to fight clean 1v1 and were destroyed. Now the whole server has confirmation that SWEA is indeed as bad as everyone says they are. Better point of talk is who pewpew will farm out to/delete to escape this age?
03-10-2013, 23:31
gergnub

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Dont think there is a need to talk about SWEA any further after the embarrassment they suffered this age when they tried to fight clean 1v1 and were destroyed. Now the whole server has confirmation that SWEA is indeed as bad as everyone says they are. Better point of talk is who pewpew will farm out to/delete to escape this age?

I bet thats what everyone is thinking. Why always so hateful Proteus? Chill, enjoy and have some fun. Hate and anger never did anyone anything good :)
03-10-2013, 23:38
Proteus

Quote:

Originally Posted by gergnub

I bet thats what everyone is thinking. Why always so hateful Proteus? Chill, enjoy and have some fun. Hate and anger never did anyone anything good :)

Do kings hate peasants? Do lions hate gazelle? No. I don't hate swea either. they never did anything to me but provide a source of land, the gift of the ghetto.
03-10-2013, 23:47
gergnub

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Do kings hate peasants? Do lions hate gazelle? No. I don't hate swea either. they never did anything to me but provide a source of land, the gift of the ghetto.

Interesting. Somehow last time you warred SWEA you ended up losing, but ofc u didnt play then. And ofc the peasants are just there to work for the king, as the peasants have no meaning, its all in the king ;)

funny stuff :)
04-10-2013, 02:22
Proteus

Quote:

Originally Posted by gergnub

Interesting. Somehow last time you warred SWEA you ended up losing, but ofc u didnt play then. And ofc the peasants are just there to work for the king, as the peasants have no meaning, its all in the king ;)

funny stuff :)

Last time i warred swea i ended up winning. that was the only time i ever was involved in a war with that kd. When they warred my old kd, I wasnt involved anyone can confirm that, its just a bad troll at this point even swea doesn't pretend that I was involved after their lies were exposed by countless logs. Generally you want to troll about things that are true or at least have a shred of truth...

I however was involved in farming you on several occasions, guess you must have enjoyed it :)

Also by peasant-king, its an analogy where the strong are not afraid of the weak. It has nothing to do with core players in kd vs. leader. Of course you are someone who has never lead anything but is pretty cocky when you had elit and dirty making all the decisions that won your crowns. Unlike you I win with my own decisions.
04-10-2013, 03:39
Korp

Quote:

Also by peasant-king, its an analogy where the strong are not afraid of the weak. It has nothing to do with core players in kd vs. leader. Of course you are someone who has never lead anything but is pretty cocky when you had elit and dirty making all the decisions that won your crowns. Unlike you I win with my own decisions.

Thats probably why Rage stopped winning I guess :)
04-10-2013, 06:43
JustinSane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Swea win last age was a fluke based on dealbreaking and being farmed out to from friendly kds. Swea had a legit chance early age to prove they were good and deserve their crown by beating a top kd. Swea chose to wave ama and was farmed out completely, it was embarassing. If swea was any good theyd do well beyond just one age. You don't have to crown but least you can do is beat someone in a war, you failed. Now you will fade into being irrelevant.

I don't know why Gegorth trolls either, all of his crowns are won by other people who lead the kd. Has he ever lead and won himself?

Farmed out to by hostile kds; following the strippers conflict, Pewpew wanted nothing but to gang bang us all age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Swea win last age was a fluke based on dealbreaking and being farmed out to from friendly kds. Swea had a legit chance early age to prove they were good and deserve their crown by beating a top kd. Swea chose to wave ama and was farmed out completely, it was embarassing. If swea was any good theyd do well beyond just one age. You don't have to crown but least you can do is beat someone in a war, you failed. Now you will fade into being irrelevant.

I don't know why Gegorth trolls either, all of his crowns are won by other people who lead the kd. Has he ever lead and won himself?

Farmed out to by hostile kds; following the strippers conflict, Pewpew wanted nothing but to gang bang us all age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sig

That he said himself that he allowed SWEA to win? And everything you already said in your post which I quoted? SWEA hit into multiple wars (lowest of the low) and farm cheated to victory; we get caught with 1 msg about black ops and get 8 wars deleted instead of one. Tell me what is and what isnt bias massa. Clearly you also have an 'elitish' version of truth. <- see what i did there

I could be misinformed, but to my knowledge SWEA (unlike AMA) only hit into one war (strippers vs. pew). More importantly, however, if our actions were so terrible, why did no KD intervene? Actions speak louder than words, my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Yes i did and we razekilled a prov of yours. Problem sorted ingame as it should be. You guys win trading was sorted outside of gameplay, as it should be.

See, Bishop gets it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araqiel

Well damn, Sig and Steve just made this interesting.

So Debauchery got stripped of their war wins for doing exactly the same as SWEA*, but SWEA don't get punished?

* A kingdom gives away the button to war and intentionally farms out to them.

Bishop seriously, where is the consistency in these admin decisions?

So if SWEA, following their AMA wave, stopped hitting as soon as war commenced, AMA should've been deleted? Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elit

AMA played most clean and fair all age last age. Almost all big kds used friends all last age for land-drop them.
Debauchery, made bad move with broke deal with Rage. After it ABS GB turned to disaster for ABS and result from it they farmed rage/hoh. SWEA and Pew Pew decide to take on easy land and vultured Debauchery. AMA stayed away from it. We gave them notice after Simians messed it all with declare war SWEA.

Last age: Simians/Pew Pew farmed for free Havoc when they decide to landrop. 30k for Simians and 9k for Pew Pew. AMA got zero acres.

Last age Pew Pew land grow is from: 1 WW vs sanc. After it AMA/BB gave them protection with keep Havoc busy. Its result they Got CF and its gave them chance for Set cows. After it they did standard ghetto bash+landrop frends+farm for free havoc and grow alot. Its make them think about "win" and decide to play AMA and Debauchery for get second war with them. During first war Pew Pew didn't hit on propose Debauchery cow. Deal was to let it stay big and they raze after war SWEA. When both kds drop his CF and set another war 10 minutes before our CF expire its was clear they have another shady deal based to provs intel. This put AMA in loss/loss choice. Result 2 kds try cheat us with lame play. We did what was correct and waved Debauchery. Hope they learned his lesson and wont end triked again from Pew Pew or other kd to be farm in war. Because Pew Pew plan didn't worked they become crazy and start act more stupid. Its resulted all next ****s.

AMA had won his n1 till KDs around us start pull ****s. You cant stay clean when all around you pulls ****s.

If you played most fair and clean, how come you managed to turn all your friends into enemies? Riddle me that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elit

Im care about clean and fair play 1vs1. Last age i was put in very bad situation result from other kds play and i really don't like it. SWEA waved OOW Stripers for personal gains. This jumped you for long in chart. SWEA acted hell lame to Simians keep hit them for over 10-15 days. SWEA played Simians/Stripers for deal break us and GB us so you can win. Its was not only lame but hell dumb because gave us source for gain land. This result SWEA deal broke us for secure his n1.

How i told: Every ghetto can win with cheat. SWEA is good example for it.

And yet you continuously hit into other peoples wars. Again, you brought the defeat on yourself. Don't blame SWEA for that.

P.S. I'd rather be nub as me and win than pro as you and lose without even realizing why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Dont think there is a need to talk about SWEA any further after the embarrassment they suffered this age when they tried to fight clean 1v1 and were destroyed. Now the whole server has confirmation that SWEA is indeed as bad as everyone says they are. Better point of talk is who pewpew will farm out to/delete to escape this age?

SWEA 1 - Rage 0.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

Thats probably why Rage stopped winning I guess :)

Burn.

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