Abduct attack gets NO scientists?

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Originally Posted by neanderthal

Attack made Feb 12

Your forces arrive at XXX (X:X). A tough battle took place, but we have managed a victory! Your army failed to abduct any scientists.
We lost 201 Griffins in this battle.
We killed about 168 enemy troops.
Our forces will be available again in 8.90 days (on February 21 of YR0).

He had 25, which is more than me.
He was hit before me, after my attack its moderate.
We are in fort, but I would still expect 1
Not a +/- hit, just regular time
Your personal Support ID is F02EC508

ho hum

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Game rounds down, hitting out of fort I would expect 0.

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Originally Posted by faye

With the scientists redistributed to the wrong subject thus having to restart all their research. Great.

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That's the best we can do. Take it or leave it.

BOO freakin HOO people.... Suck it the f**k up or quit. I'm sick of reading about all you whining little punks and i'm sure Bishop is too.

Good Job on the fix BISHOP.

I for one appreciate what you have done.... not just this age, but since you have been around. I was happy to see last winter that this game was still in operation as i hadnt played since i was in highschool 10 years ago.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BISHOP and the rest of the development team.

Some info on base abductions would be nice.

I did 1 abduct b4 fix, on a mod hit province. I got 0 scientists. Assuming somebody else took all of them prior to my hit.
I did 1 abduct after fix, on a mod hit province, I got 0 scientists. I checked and he had 30+ scientists before my hit.

I would expect a minimum of 1 abductee on my last hit. Can only confirm it prolly rounds down.
I would have gained ~20 acres = ~4% gain of enemy ressource. That equals ~1.09 scientist abducted. Very possibly it would actually be <1, with a little worse gain/less scientists than I thought he had (had some, more than me).

Expecting to have gained a couple of scientists only, its no big loss. Somewhat knowing the mechanics would be swell though, prevent anymore 0 gain hits.

All you lucky people to have gained loads of scientists, you will be feeding them to me shortly :)

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Originally Posted by Folle

Some info on base abductions would be nice.

I did 1 abduct b4 fix, on a mod hit province. I got 0 scientists. Assuming somebody else took all of them prior to my hit.
I did 1 abduct after fix, on a mod hit province, I got 0 scientists. I checked and he had 30+ scientists before my hit.

I would expect a minimum of 1 abductee on my last hit. Can only confirm it prolly rounds down.
I would have gained ~20 acres = ~4% gain of enemy ressource. That equals ~1.09 scientist abducted. Very possibly it would actually be <1, with a little worse gain/less scientists than I thought he had (had some, more than me).

Expecting to have gained a couple of scientists only, its no big loss. Somewhat knowing the mechanics would be swell though, prevent anymore 0 gain hits.

All you lucky people to have gained loads of scientists, you will be feeding them to me shortly :)

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If it was after the fix, he couldn't have had more than 30 sci's since everyone was put down to a max of 23 (unless he got a sci every tick of the game since the patch)

Just hit.

Target was 85% of NW, not hit before, both KDs in normal, non-sage personality.

0 scientists.

Working as intended.

its day one, of course you arent getting scientists on hits.

People were expecting Learn attacks to suddenly be useful at age start?

Absolutely.

Learn used to get you a percentage of each category, no matter what day of the age it was - as long as the person had books. Whether it was worth it or not, that is a different story.

With the new science system and the perceived linear science system, it makes sense to abduct early in age, especially if not going for growth. Whether you agree or not Bishop, it needs to be adjusted.

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Absolutely.

Learn used to get you a percentage of each category, no matter what day of the age it was - as long as the person had books. Whether it was worth it or not, that is a different story.

With the new science system and the perceived linear science system, it makes sense to abduct early in age, especially if not going for growth. Whether you agree or not Bishop, it needs to be adjusted.

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Getting a whole scientist would always be worth it?

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Whether you agree or not Bishop, it needs to be adjusted.

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Actually, whether i agree or not is what dictates if it will be adjusted.

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Whether it was worth it or not, that is a different story.

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It was never worth it day one.

Yeah, yet another abduct with no results... I Spied on Military and sciences before hand, and the province has never been hit before, not a mage, etc....

Please just give us some general guidelines on what to expect and not to expect with abduct attacks. -50% protection from abductions is seeming pretty useless to me now... My entire strategy for this age is looking more retarded with each passing moment.

On the matter, I'm just going to reset my province once able to. I just don't have faith in my strat anymore, so will conform to one of the three major race/personalities and become a mere pawn in my kingdom.

Know that I'll likely be crying myself to sleep tonight (lol, jk, I might just shed a tear or two).

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Originally Posted by Bishop

its day one, of course you arent getting scientists on hits.

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You should probably have put up a warning in the changes for age 69 about this. It would have saved you a lot of whining from the nubs :)

I think it's fine.

New system was a little wonky right at the start. It has now been fixed. Some people lucked out, some people didn't. It really isn't a big deal. It's +/- a handful of scientists by 2 days into a 110-120 day age. So much bitterness.

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Originally Posted by hmw_kamikaze

Yeah, yet another abduct with no results... I Spied on Military and sciences before hand, and the province has never been hit before, not a mage, etc....

Please just give us some general guidelines on what to expect and not to expect with abduct attacks. -50% protection from abductions is seeming pretty useless to me now... My entire strategy for this age is looking more retarded with each passing moment.

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What do you expect? That you can grab sci on every hit this early age? That would have been totally broken... How much sci could you grab from a non-sage oop last age?

No wonder this game has a fraction of a fraction of the players it used to have... Condescending individuals/attitudes everywhere. Troll central.

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Originally Posted by Burzum

What do you expect? That you can grab sci on every hit this early age? That would have been totally broken... How much sci could you grab from a non-sage oop last age?

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YES, I DO expect to grab some form of a gain when using an attack that was programmed into the game. I never did learn attacks much last age, but always got solid results when I did TBH (25K minimum each time). To ask for some simple mother-****ing guidelines on this new and different form of attack isn't really much to ask for.

What I don't expect is 2 abduct attacks in a row result in 0 net scientists. This is why I took the time to register in this joke of a forum.

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Originally Posted by hmw_kamikaze

YES, I DO expect to grab some form of a gain when using an attack that was programmed into the game. I never did learn attacks much last age, but always got solid results when I did TBH (25K minimum each time). To ask for some simple mother-****ing guidelines on this new and different form of attack isn't really much to ask for.

What I don't expect is 2 abduct attacks in a row result in 0 net scientists. This is why I took the time to register in this joke of a forum.

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So the gains are 0 atm and people have on average 20 scientists I'd say, which suggests abduct gains are <5%. Bear in mind though I have no real evidence of NW differences or stances or anything.

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Originally Posted by hmw_kamikaze

YES, I DO expect to grab some form of a gain when using an attack that was programmed into the game. I never did learn attacks much last age, but always got solid results when I did TBH (25K minimum each time). To ask for some simple mother-****ing guidelines on this new and different form of attack isn't really much to ask for.

What I don't expect is 2 abduct attacks in a row result in 0 net scientists. This is why I took the time to register in this joke of a forum.

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So let me get this straight: you were able to get 25k books off a single Learn attack right OOP? Even assuming that hit was on a Sage, who started with 40k books, the BS only becomes more clear. Learn attacks have NEVER been worth it OOP, you're lucky if you manage to get 10k books from 2 hits, let alone 25k in a single one. If you're going to whine about something, at least leave out the BS.

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Originally Posted by Crystopher

So let me get this straight: you were able to get 25k books off a single Learn attack right OOP? Even assuming that hit was on a Sage, who started with 40k books, the BS only becomes more clear. Learn attacks have NEVER been worth it OOP, you're lucky if you manage to get 10k books from 2 hits, let alone 25k in a single one. If you're going to whine about something, at least leave out the BS.

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Learn was 8 percent.

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Originally Posted by Crystopher

So let me get this straight: you were able to get 25k books off a single Learn attack right OOP? Even assuming that hit was on a Sage, who started with 40k books, the BS only becomes more clear. Learn attacks have NEVER been worth it OOP, you're lucky if you manage to get 10k books from 2 hits, let alone 25k in a single one. If you're going to whine about something, at least leave out the BS.

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I only did learn attacks closer to the end of the age (not OOP).

Let me get this straight: The forum users are condescending AND have the reading comprehension skills of children. Noted.

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Originally Posted by hmw_kamikaze

I only did learn attacks closer to the end of the age (not OOP).

Let me get this straight: The forum users are condescending AND have the reading comprehension skills of children. Noted.

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Knock it off.

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Originally Posted by neanderthal

Learn was 8 percent.

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Thanks for pointing that out, I knew it was small but couldn't recall the exact number.

@Kamikaze, you were asked initially why you expected to get significant gains from a Learn attack early age, and if you'll notice literally every response to you has repeated that this is regarding "OOP" or "early age." Please do your best to employ basic reading comprehension before attempting to call others out for lacking it.

If you get poor gains on an Abduct attack later in the age, then you'll potentially have a legitimate gripe. But not in this case.

Quick shout out to all those provinces who have had Revelation up for the past 24 hours and still haven't gotten a single scientist. Hashtag bonuses should matter!

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Originally Posted by hmw_kamikaze

YES, I DO expect to grab some form of a gain when using an attack that was programmed into the game. I never did learn attacks much last age, but always got solid results when I did TBH (25K minimum each time). To ask for some simple mother-****ing guidelines on this new and different form of attack isn't really much to ask for.

What I don't expect is 2 abduct attacks in a row result in 0 net scientists. This is why I took the time to register in this joke of a forum.

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Remember that 1 scientist is worth a LOT more than what 5k books did in previous ages, which is most likely the max u could gain from non-sages OOP. Even 50k books is worth less than 1 scientist later in age as it used to require a lot of books to increase BE with 1% for instance. That is why you can't expect same % of gains this age. It would have been broken. The sci works different.
Personally I hope the gains are no more than 2-3%.

So since getting new scientists is very unlikely (in 50 hours i got none) and since they say abduct gives nothing as there are too few scientists, is all this for nothing?
What kind of change is this that does nothing?

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Originally Posted by gpimento

So since getting new scientists is very unlikely (in 50 hours i got none) and since they say abduct gives nothing as there are too few scientists, is all this for nothing?
What kind of change is this that does nothing?

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It's still way too early, why aren't people getting that?. How long did it take for provinces to build up enough sci for it to be worth learning them? Abduct gives nothing early on, but that doesn't mean it will give nothing later on. Not to mention that within a week there will be Graduate level scientists, which will make Abduct a viable option. Be patient.

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Originally Posted by Crystopher

It's still way too early, why aren't people getting that?. How long did it take for provinces to build up enough sci for it to be worth learning them? Abduct gives nothing early on, but that doesn't mean it will give nothing later on. Not to mention that within a week there will be Graduate level scientists, which will make Abduct a viable option. Be patient.

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Yep, failing to abduct graduates will be much better than failing to abduct novices ;)

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Originally Posted by MrMac

Yep, failing to abduct graduates will be much better than failing to abduct novices ;)

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Well, if you're not doing an SoS to ensure they have enough scientists for Abduct to get you something, then you're deserve to gain nothing :)

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Originally Posted by Crystopher

Well, if you're not doing an SoS to ensure they have enough scientists for Abduct to get you something, then you're deserve to gain nothing :)

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We don't know the gain % on abduct so it's tough to be sure if you can get one. If gains are 3%, then people need 34+ scientists at 100% nw to get one. If gains are 2% it's 50.

Also unsure exactly how orc gains and +h works. Maybe an orc with +4h could get one with an abduct right now.

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Originally Posted by Azureflames

We don't know the gain % on abduct so it's tough to be sure if you can get one. If gains are 3%, then people need 34+ scientists at 100% nw to get one. If gains are 2% it's 50.

Also unsure exactly how orc gains and +h works. Maybe an orc with +4h could get one with an abduct right now.

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I'm sure the great minds in the community will have the gains percentage figured out soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Crystopher

It's still way too early, why aren't people getting that?. How long did it take for provinces to build up enough sci for it to be worth learning them? Abduct gives nothing early on, but that doesn't mean it will give nothing later on. Not to mention that within a week there will be Graduate level scientists, which will make Abduct a viable option. Be patient.

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As i said, almost no one get new scientists and abducting who has all scientists gives 0 scientists, so its what? next decade maybe getting 1 or 2?
And since its on number of scientists the graduation means nothing when all we get is 0...

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Originally Posted by Burzum

Remember that 1 scientist is worth a LOT more than what 5k books did in previous ages, which is most likely the max u could gain from non-sages OOP. Even 50k books is worth less than 1 scientist later in age as it used to require a lot of books to increase BE with 1% for instance. That is why you can't expect same % of gains this age. It would have been broken. The sci works different.
Personally I hope the gains are no more than 2-3%.

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5k books under the old sceince formula oop was approximately 10 bpa assuming someone grew to 500 acres.

10 bpa yielded V # of scientists equivalent

Science........% science.......Scientists Equivelence (novice)
Alchemy......4.4 .................4.4
Tools...........3.2 .................6.3
Housing.......2.1 .................6.9
Food............25.3................8.4
Military........1.6..................5.5
Thievery......19.0.................6.3
Channeling..19.0.................6.3


The ONLY reason to not learn oop in the previous ages was it was more gc effienct to plunder and buy science than it was to learn. Now with science you cant buy you still need a way to get science abduct SHOULD be that method.

Compare science now to things like wpa. Say im fighting a guy on 10 raw wpa and i have 7 raw wpa. Since i cant train more wpa in a day i massacre him to give an advantage. Realistic, simple easy. However, the current abuct is like saying massacres do no damage if the target has less than 4 raw wpa if a mystic. since 4 wpa is relatively "low" u simply arent allowed to do more damage? I have zero issues if we want to make abuct 1-2% gains so it takes 40-50 hits of learn to really strip science away, BUT i dont like the idea of zero gains for in nw hits. Simply changing round down 0 to a min gains is 1 and abduct could easily fixed.

so far the gain percentage was 50% before fix and is 0% now... together with the "new scientist lotto" of 0,0001% making the new science useless.

First: Most of the people who haven't gotten a scientist yet (including myself) are in Fort, where you don't get new scientists anyway.

Second: While I actually do agree that you should probably get 1 scientist per abduct if the target has 18 (at least if he's unhit, non-sage, not in Fort) but that's not how it is. I know a lot of you guys planned on just abducting like crazy OOP to pump science for wars, but that can't happen anymore, you have to wait, start your abducting in yr 1 on guys with ~25 scientists, maybe then you'll start getting 1 per hit. Maybe you have to wait until people have 30 before it starts giving 1 (which would seem high IMO...)

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Originally Posted by CannaWhoopazz

most of the people who haven't gotten a scientist yet (including myself) are in Fort, where you don't get new scientists anyway. While I actually do agree that you should probably get 1 scientist per abduct if the target has 18 (at least if he's unhit, non-sage, not in Fort) but that's not how it is. I know a lot of you guys planned on just abducting like crazy OOP to pump science for wars, but that can't happen anymore, you have to wait, start your abducting in yr 1 on guys with ~25 scientists, maybe then you'll start getting 1 per hit. Maybe you have to wait until people have 30 before it starts giving 1 (which would seem high IMO...)

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Not really... My kd is normal stance and still we don´t get new scientists (most have/had 10%more labs). it is simply awful that sciences got destroyed that way that it cant be got by paying neither buildings neither learn/abducts... being a sage is the most stupid choice ever.

So ironic the name of the age being "The Age of Scholars and Scoundrels" when scholars mean nothing and all that have are scoundrels.

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Originally Posted by Persain

5k books under the old sceince formula oop was approximately 10 bpa assuming someone grew to 500 acres.

10 bpa yielded V # of scientists equivalent

Science........% science.......Scientists Equivelence (novice)
Alchemy......4.4 .................4.4
Tools...........3.2 .................6.3
Housing.......2.1 .................6.9
Food............25.3................8.4
Military........1.6..................5.5
Thievery......19.0.................6.3
Channeling..19.0.................6.3


The ONLY reason to not learn oop in the previous ages was it was more gc effienct to plunder and buy science than it was to learn. Now with science you cant buy you still need a way to get science abduct SHOULD be that method.

Compare science now to things like wpa. Say im fighting a guy on 10 raw wpa and i have 7 raw wpa. Since i cant train more wpa in a day i massacre him to give an advantage. Realistic, simple easy. However, the current abuct is like saying massacres do no damage if the target has less than 4 raw wpa if a mystic. since 4 wpa is relatively "low" u simply arent allowed to do more damage? I have zero issues if we want to make abuct 1-2% gains so it takes 40-50 hits of learn to really strip science away, BUT i dont like the idea of zero gains for in nw hits. Simply changing round down 0 to a min gains is 1 and abduct could easily fixed.

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My point was simply, 1 scientist is worth much more than a few books. If min gain is 1 it will be broken. Fast hitting attackers could max out their Sci in a matter of a few weeks. Not to mention how much weaker it would make TMs who seldom can abduct.

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Originally Posted by gpimento

Not really... My kd is normal stance and still we don´t get new scientists (most have/had 10%more labs). it is simply awful that sciences got destroyed that way that it cant be got by paying neither buildings neither learn/abducts... being a sage is the most stupid choice ever.

So ironic the name of the age being "The Age of Scholars and Scoundrels" when scholars mean nothing and all that have are scoundrels.

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You are aware that the actual real sage bonus is the effectiveness?

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Knock it off.

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Uh, why don't you make me champ?

Feel free to delete my account (Profound Darkness, I plan on just deleting it tomorrow anyway.

You're a joke, along with your little game.