elves and forts is win
more to modify
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elves and forts is win
more to modify
Yeah, I'm currently running 15% TG 10% forts as Halfling since I can't have hospitals, and guard stations are useless without hospitals / cleric.
For Elf I don't think I could fit in forts, as there's a need for so many other buildings to function. How do you manage that?
Backwards. Try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Imp
Lol?!!!??!?!!? what?!!!!?!?!?!
If I have 10 defense specs per acre as an elf and 20% forts
If I have 10 defense specs per acre as any other race and 20% forts
which one gets modified the most smarty pantz.
You don't use Forts to get a higher net defense, you do it to get more population moved from defense specs to elites, so not really...
unless your trying to be near unbreakable... like alot of elves this age...
And they fail.
or do they get top of honour charts hmmmmmm
When trying to be unbreakable in war forts reallly reallly reallly help elves.
10 DS/A isn't unbreakable, which is what you were just saying.
Nowhere near it actually. Keep in mind that not matter WHAT you do on def, there is an Undead or Orc somewhere just waiting to eat those pointy eared mofos. The numbers are just stacked HEAVILY against defensiveness. The highest defense per unit possible is a 7, and that comes with a -10% pop multiplier. Whereas there are two races with 9 off elites, two with 8...not to mention Stables and TGs do work together, even if it isn't the best use of building space...you can see where this is going.
Within the confines of a war, it is possible to build an unbreakable, but unless you're far larger than their largest attacker, then 10DS/A is too little to become UB.
That's more where I was going with that. Not saying UB is impossible within war...or even outside of it, assuming you are the top of the food chain. Just making the point that you will ALWAYS have to work harder than the guy swinging away (or severely outsize everyone) to be unbreakable. Just how the game is tilted. 10 Dspa is just...not very impressive. Hell, 10 epa for a Faery is easily breakable unless much bigger than everyone else.
The 10DPa was hypothetical... ... used for the purpose of showing modification.... obv elves would have higher
Nobody in a warring KD cares about out of war... If you are in a good KD you are not going to get hit unless your a juicy plunder target
Gotcha, but if you were going the route Ethan has been espousing, you WOULDN'T run the same 10 dspa on your Elf that you ran on any other race. You would actually want to cut back to 8.3 dspa in that case to maximize the number game and get better Fort benefits. The entire premise behind what he does is maintaining a specific mod dpa, and using the excess pop created by the use of Forts for offense, not increasing your actual defense. But I am sure you're well aware of the weird way he likes to do things by now. ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by The Imp
ah yeah, he was talking about maintaining it while i was thinking about building it...
but still, surely, forts would help and elf to maintain the same DPA better than any other race...
human with 20% dme from forts becomes 6 def points gaining 1 point
elf with 20% from forts becomes 7.2 def points gaining 1.2 point
Actually, relatively speaking, the amount of offense freed up by Forts for Elf is less than that of any other race because you're reducing a smaller number by the same %.
Example: Dwarf vs Elf 42 DPA goal
Assume 200% wages and MP cast ~1.129 DME mod
Elf: 42/6/1.129 = 6.2 DS/A
Dwarf: 42/5/1.129 = 7.4 DS/A
+20% bonus from forts = (1.076+.2)*1.05=1.34 DME mod
Elf: 42/6/1.34 = 5.22 DS/A EPA saved: 0.98
Dwarf: 42/5/1.34 = 6.27 DS/A EPA saved: 1.13
forts r nub .... odd ...
No idea about the maths but I used forts as halfling.
Halfling are a bit different, in that once DBE is high enough on TGs, you always get better offensive returns on Forts. This is obviously due to their having a 100% elite army. The principle is the same with all races, but it's more obvious with Halflings, as all you have to do is adjust your send numbers to change your defense at home, and there's no variance in unit training. Quite easily the most versatile military in the game at the current time.
odd ... imo .. forts cant bring as much land as tgs does =)
Ordray you're comparing different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordray
The Imp is saying that forts boost the defense efficiency of each elf spec more than each [other race] spec. He's not making a DPA argument (at least in that post).
Yes and no. Read his last post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Imp
There are too many black/white statements about buildings in this thread. The way some replies were framed their points are easy to understand.
i like to give my 2 cents without being able to solve what is the best building.
Guardstations are good when getting chained. 95% of the time you are not being chained. Being chained is not a random occurence. There are certain indicators that are fairly reliable.
The same goes for hospitals but they are obviously good a lot more often. How good depends on your setup. They might be the most economic building or they might not.
I think there is an obsession with defending against chaining. Sometimes the poison is in the pill.
Forts are starting to become better as the age progresses, like libs. I think it's not true they are a "waste" for an attacker.
Many choices depend on context. For example your Kingdom is a very important context.
I am now running 33% GS
going a bit heavy on the gs?Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio86
It's better than 0% I suppose ;) Move 15% or so to hospitals if you don't already have them.
Undeads using hospitals is redundant.There are better buildings to use than hospitals.
Every undead we have chained without hospitals has been on land defense quicker that you can say LOL.
-1260 acres: Djinn of Knights (19/93)
that was from our last war. It wasnt until hit ~80ish that i was on land defense. I had no hospitals either. Started war at 1.6k acres and was chained to 160 acres or so. I think undead you guys are hitting dont know how to play undead :P
how many of those hits were with pf?
Hit 80 isnt unique 80 though, which is the point.
id say 65% of those hits were with PF. Also took about 6 hits prewar, all with PF, that is not included in that number either.
actually bishop whats the point of your point? ordrays post listed attacks received not uniques received. each hit kills the same amount whether it is a unique or multi-tap.
Allow me to get to the point of my point :)
Without hospitals you should see that your opponents are, in a short amount of time, sending army scraps and/or quadding you.
You need hospitals more.
undead below the size of 3k shouldnt be using hosp .... those above 3k should consider hosp for a long term war
Yea
ive often stressed that point and gotten laughed at becuase of the "build strat" most people seem to carry here. Then when Im skipping past them in size and strength after a war I still cant get them to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe i have a clue as to what im doing
I disagree fully on hospitals as a undead, and it is very pointless if you are gonna be doing a war that is gonna last more then 2-3 days. and even if you would only be 2-3 days, I think GS's would still outbenefit hospitals.
considering after you get chained as a undead you become a suicider, and it dosen't really matter if you have 0 defense, as long as the second your army is home it goes back out, you'll be running after you get chained down, around 200-250OPA, so you'll be 2-4 tapping people and getting back almost as much acres as people take off of you.
and not wasting on defense after the initial chain, you will be OP'ed till your land comes home, then you'll always be able to attack as long as you don't mess your attacks up.
so whoever says "hospitals are needed as a undead" bring your facts, and I'll bring mine, and we will discuss. I'd rather waste 35-40% in gs then 25% gs and 10-15% hospitals or 40% hospitals ect..
Why don't you guys just play something thats good? AV/CL ftw
And not running hosps for a none CL is no good.
You are elf cleric A/M right? 33% gs is EXCESSIVE, especially since im guessing u are at/around 1500 acresQuote:
Originally Posted by scorpio86