New Anticheat Measure Going Live Today

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13-12-2011, 04:24
Joker1975

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Why would you think cheaters go to the trouble of deleting their accounts? They let them go inactive.

We have seen a 40% decrease in reports of interactions since the system went live. If you are going to ROFLMAO try and ensure you know what you are talking about.

So your 40% decrease in reports of interactions means what exactly? You have had a decrease in the reports of possible or substantiated cheating? Were those reports coming from players or your automated system?

Would you also be saying that you have had a substantial increase in "inactive" provinces based on your comment about cheaters letting their provinces go inactive?

How long are the devs allowing a province to be inactive now before it becomes abandoned and the monarch can delete it or use it for an invite?

Because based strictly off numbers, your system hasn't done anything. So ROFLMAO is pretty valid based purely on numbers alone.
13-12-2011, 05:46
Ordray

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

The ip that interacts is logged, so no - they wouldn't be blocked.

Great, that's what I was wanting to know. Thanks Bishop. ^_^
13-12-2011, 08:30
Byakuya

So if the focus is on improving the game... when will "Ticks" be taken back out of it? I still see no validity in this argument. Hypothetically speaking, I could play from several different locations and be in the same kingdom. *shrugs*. I just cannot fathom a cheater taking the time to get themselves 'whitelisted' if they have been cheating without a hitch before. If a couple is x-logging, smack them with the anti-cheat method. Otherwise I can see no problem with having a Whitelist.

People who want to honestly play a game shall. Those who don't, simply won't.

If the reports have reduced in cheating via user-reports, that doesn't mean that the cheating has gone down necessarily either.
13-12-2011, 09:26
Scavenger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byakuya

So if the focus is on improving the game... when will "Ticks" be taken back out of it? I still see no validity in this argument.

I see no validity in this argument in this thread.

Quote:

Hypothetically speaking, I could play from several different locations and be in the same kingdom. *shrugs*. I just cannot fathom a cheater taking the time to get themselves 'whitelisted' if they have been cheating without a hitch before. If a couple is x-logging, smack them with the anti-cheat method. Otherwise I can see no problem with having a Whitelist.

You can't see cheaters take the time to whitelist, yet you imagine a cheater coordinating attacks from several locations?

Quote:

People who want to honestly play a game shall. Those who don't, simply won't.

Lets get rid of the laws and the police. Anarchy ftw.

Quote:

If the reports have reduced in cheating via user-reports, that doesn't mean that the cheating has gone down necessarily either.

Let us stay clear of interpreting data they accumulated.
13-12-2011, 09:44
Byakuya

Lol. Your logic always smites logical fallacies. Darn you Savenger ;)

Still, I had family that honestly played with no x-logging. My sis and father didn't x-log for each other. They wanted honest play with full realm of playability. The system put a big shackle to those who played with integrity. I don't believe in multying myself. I was raised by a marine and raised upon the belief that cheating was not welcome nor granted. Did I ever run more than one province? Definitely not.

I did like the unique browser information posted a few pages back. It held validity and would be a easy target for those who violated WListing terms/agreement.

I strongly disagree with cheating, but I figured that there would be a way to detect x-logging and preventing it more readily.

For example: Father travels a lot and logs into his account as he travels. Sister is home on the weekends from school and during breaks in school. Logs can be tracked showing that they were logged in simultaneously from two separate locations.... most times from an hour's distance, others from three to 12 hours' distance in the same time period with no quick hopping (ie the 12 hour gap turns into no gap within an hour etc.). I would believe that would warrant an x-log flag.
13-12-2011, 10:06
Bishop

All this has been covered before, but i appreciate the thread is long so ill repeat

Maintaining a whitelist isn't feasible or scalable, and the whitelist was a bad idea from the start.

Joker: you are talking about things you have absolute no insight into. If you think the system is working well then thats all there is to it.
13-12-2011, 10:28
Byakuya

Bishop, I don't know that it was a bad idea honestly. It brought back a lot of old players and pulled an interest in for new :)

It was pleasant for those who were able to honestly whitelist and shambles for them when they lost it. Was there no way to modify the system for autodetection to detect x-logging in such a manner (ie: distance params, log times, unique browser ID etc) for the ones who were whitelisting?

Albeit I'm sure that would be a project load and a half to implement such a program, I'm sure that it would have been a worthwhile endeavor for those who wanted honest play together.

I know you all caught a lot of flak for the changes due to the suddenness and harshness that it was implemented (which it definitely was sudden), but I know you all are trying to make the game as fair as possible to all players. I think most of the people who went through the troubles of getting properly WL'ed felt slighted, especially when they 'donated' money to the system so they could play together. The change altered the way they could interact completely.
13-12-2011, 10:47
Bishop

Whitelisted pairs should have no differences between them in terms of distance or browser on their home IP and often their log in times are the same as (they claim) they play together. It was abused a lot.
13-12-2011, 10:54
Byakuya

*Hating Abusers*

Cheaters, as always, ruin perfectly good ideas.
13-12-2011, 10:54
Palem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byakuya

Still, I had family that honestly played with no x-logging. My sis and father didn't x-log for each other. They wanted honest play with full realm of playability.

Then play in separate kds and they would have hardly ever ran into the new system. If they were so insistent on playing with each other than they needed to accept that there would be some additional burdens to work around.
13-12-2011, 11:02
baka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Maintaining a whitelist isn't feasible or scalable, and the whitelist was a bad idea from the start.

Do it on a per-age basis. Make application harder. Do background checks, call the police, call the university, compare social insurance number to registrar(obviously to a much lesser extent given data protection laws)... do what needs to be done ensure that those who play fair and honestly are protected. Not enough helpers? Hire some. No money? Find some.

This is the lazy way out, you and I both know this. As fun as this game is (for existing players), removing the rights of players is very different from protecting them.

Everyone has the right to fair and honest play.

Everyone should play fair and honestly.

You're trying to protect the former by removing the latter. Wake up!
13-12-2011, 11:10
Bishop

Quote:

Originally Posted by baka

Do it on a per-age basis. Make application harder. Do background checks, call the police, call the university, compare social insurance number to registrar(obviously to a much lesser extent given data protection laws)... do what needs to be done ensure that those who play fair and honestly are protected. Not enough helpers? Hire some. No money? Find some.

This is the lazy way out, you and I both know this. As fun as this game is (for existing players), removing the rights of players is very different from protecting them.

Everyone has the right to fair and honest play.

Everyone should play fair and honestly.

You're trying to protect the former by removing the latter. Wake up!

This is not even slightly feasible. Be realistic.
13-12-2011, 12:12
Byakuya

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palem

Then play in separate kds and they would have hardly ever ran into the new system. If they were so insistent on playing with each other than they needed to accept that there would be some additional burdens to work around.

Palem, that kinda defeats the whole idea of "playing together". The idea is the same as two people playing single player games in separate rooms. NOT the same. lol. Compare apples to oranges. Play in the same kingdom. Talk about playing in your separate kingdoms.

I am still more than irritated with the lack of response when it comes to x-logging detection/protection methods proposed by honest players for honest players.

Raising money, not feasible? Then what are the "donations" going to I ask?
13-12-2011, 12:17
Bishop

If you want to play together you can, you just cant hit the same targets within a certain period of time.
Donations go to server costs and some development. The game doesn't make a lot of money yet.

Your detection methods aren't feasible or strong enough. They are also reactive rather than proactive.
13-12-2011, 12:19
Byakuya

I'm sure hired help isn't too hard to come by with the large vet base that love this game. People paying for premium features = money coming into you. More people = more money potential.

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