Jesters

We dont have a record of cheating. We have been deactivated before. We werent cheating then and we arent now. There wasnt even any incident or evidence. The log support sent to me showed one log from lastnight. It doesnt show 2 or more. I am still waiting for the rest of the logs to be posted. We were laying in bed, back to back, ignoring each other while playing on our own devices like we do every night. Spending good quality time together lol like when we go out to dinner at chili's and use their free wifi to check our pv's (on our own devices, at the same time) while we chow on popcorn & wait for our food to come out.

Krissy got deleted? hope she still plays. it'll be sad to lose a passionate player.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

You don't get to pick and choose the rules that apply, and this one is real clear. No reinstatments, no exceptions. The onus is completely on the players actions, not who can tell the better story

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Then please make it publicly known if players can signal to the admins that they live togheter and play utopia.
How to prove that no xlogging takes place?
How can they play by not breaking the rules?
Do they have to have diffrent Internet connections on diffrent devices?
Or are people living togheter that want to play togheter not allowed in this game?
Please take time to respond to my questions Bishop, IMHO it would be good for the community if everyone can avoid these types of mistakes in the future.

Bishop,
"If it is found that you were deleted in error your account will be restored, along with your province."
Neither of us logged in with each others devices. We use our own accounts and our own devices. I know the mac addresses will show that.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

You don't get to pick and choose the rules that apply, and this one is real clear. No reinstatments, no exceptions. The onus is completely on the players actions, not who can tell the better story

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What?

I said it is a heavy handed approach to support and dealing with cheaters in the system.

I never said I should be able to pick and chose which rules apply.

I did say that the rule of insta deletion without warning is really dumb, and I stand by that. If you have the logs you claim to have, which I believe you do, it should be fairly clear that they regularly are online from the same IP as well as regularly online throughout the day at the same time from different IPs in different locations. I would say that it is completely reasonable that you can deduce that they are two players who live together and both actively play.

Apparently the message they got from you (?) or someone was: Behaviour that may be legitimate, such as logging in after your housemate, is identical to the behaviour of someone that may be cheating. As such, you should avoid any such actions as deletions as a result of this behaviour will not be reversed.

That is heavy handed because as I described above, you can tell that they are legitimate players because of all of their other activity.

It seems like you are the one that is picking a one off situation and digging your heels into the ground on it.

Of course, you are in charge and don't owe me anything.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

They had no chance at honor crown anyways.

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Well, this was before your, uh, tough war with UN1T ;)

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Originally Posted by Frugal Baggins

Bishop,
"If it is found that you were deleted in error your account will be restored, along with your province."
Neither of us logged in with each others devices. We use our own accounts and our own devices. I know the mac addresses will show that.

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Honestly I never knew ppl can play on different devices within same wifi... I hav multiple devices, so I can play 2 accounts and say my wife plays with me living in same home? Then every player can multi as well just because some couples wanna play together living in the same home. Conclusion this hurts the game more than the handful pretending to not Xlog and claims not helping each other's play even with separate devices. Actions are taken when suspicious acts are performed and reported. Bishop is not so free to check on every single province in Utopia all the time. So consider it a bonus u didn't get deleted way earlier and only after war ended when you were reported a week ago.

Social game my ass! its 2016 and you cant even play with your partner in a safe way. broken old game indeed.

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Originally Posted by pierniczek

Then please make it publicly known if players can signal to the admins that they live togheter and play utopia.
How to prove that no xlogging takes place?
How can they play by not breaking the rules?
Do they have to have diffrent Internet connections on diffrent devices?
Or are people living togheter that want to play togheter not allowed in this game?
Please take time to respond to my questions Bishop, IMHO it would be good for the community if everyone can avoid these types of mistakes in the future.

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Already addressed in the games rules.

Okay so there can be only 1 player per household, workplace etc per device playing at a single time?

Reported a week ago for what weesin? For what????

"We advise players that wish to play with a housemate etc to use separate computers if possible, or to use a separate user account at the very least. Behaviour that may be legitimate, such as logging in after your housemate, is identical to the behaviour of someone that may be cheating. As such, you should avoid any such actions as deletions as a result of this behaviour will not be reversed. The game will take care of interactions ingame as it automatically blocks same IP interactions - it is up to the players to ensure the security and integrity of their account on their end."

The only log that was provided was
6 Apr, 01:49 using Linux/Chrome from 74.70.134.140 (Clifton Park, New York, 12065, United States)
Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 5.0.2; VK810 4G Build/LRX22G) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/49.0.2623.105 Safari/537.36

Forgive my ignorance, but that appears to be a single event?

It also doesn't appear to have information that would specify the system accessing - it only contains the IP, device type and browser. Those are fairly standard web logs and don't seem to show specifics that could allow you to see more than 2 logins from the same device type.

If my wife and I both have the same model phone or ipad we are cheating? Would love clarification here because it seems like the rule statement should be amended to state that you need your own devices that are different make/model than anyone else's on your IP.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Already addressed in the games rules.

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Right, i've read it three times and I came to the conclusion I have to ask you for some advice.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

We advise players that wish to play with a housemate etc to use separate computers if possible, or to use a separate user account at the very least.

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They fuffilled both requests, why was there a problem? From what I know they reported to the game admins that they live togheter and want to play togheter, it was fine for 2 years...

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Originally Posted by Cry0

"We advise players that wish to play with a housemate etc to use separate computers if possible, or to use a separate user account at the very least. Behaviour that may be legitimate, such as logging in after your housemate, is identical to the behaviour of someone that may be cheating. As such, you should avoid any such actions as deletions as a result of this behaviour will not be reversed. The game will take care of interactions ingame as it automatically blocks same IP interactions - it is up to the players to ensure the security and integrity of their account on their end."

The only log that was provided was
6 Apr, 01:49 using Linux/Chrome from 74.70.134.140 (Clifton Park, New York, 12065, United States)
Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 5.0.2; VK810 4G Build/LRX22G) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/49.0.2623.105 Safari/537.36

Forgive my ignorance, but that appears to be a single event?

It also doesn't appear to have information that would specify the system accessing - it only contains the IP, device type and browser. Those are fairly standard web logs and don't seem to show specifics that could allow you to see more than 2 logins from the same device type.

If my wife and I both have the same model phone or ipad we are cheating?

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I was asked via support email for the most recent time it happened, which I provided. That "single event" occurred on two accounts.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

I was asked via support email for the most recent time it happened, which I provided. That "single event" occurred on two accounts.

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They both use StingerNet extension (browser addon to auto post ops, intel to the bot)
Im sure you can verify with Stinger that those 2 accounts have 2 diffrent owners.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

I was asked via support email for the most recent time it happened, which I provided. That "single event" occurred on two accounts.

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But where does that single event show anything that could let you know they are the same device?

Not trying to argue here - there is an honest question.

Android 5.0.2 is the android version.. VK810 5G is a model of android tablet.

All that log would say is that you had two logins at the same time from the same IP from the same type of device.

Your statement in the rules say separate computers but that log doesn't seem to identify anything unique to the device itself to be able to tell if it is a separate device or two people with the same make/model of device.

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Originally Posted by Cry0

But where does that single event show anything that could let you know they are the same device?

Not trying to argue here - there is an honest question.

Android 5.0.2 is the android version.. VK810 5G is a model of android tablet.

All that log would say is that you had two logins at the same time from the same IP from the same type of device.

Your statement in the rules say separate computers but that log doesn't seem to identify anything unique to the device itself to be able to tell if it is a separate device or two people with the same make/model of device.

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Google user agent strings. As I said, it's one part of a log.

Bishop, could this be due to the unofficial utopia app? It recently updated and started posting our intel automatically. Could that be the cause of our accounts being flagged?

Might be a unpopular view I guess. How about change the punishment for X logging or give warnings before deletions. Like abandon the province instead of blowing it up. I know pyro had just invited someone to a abandoned province and it got deleted because he was a multi. How is that fair to the kingdom I guess I am saying. These two might be multis and monarch might not even know. I am just saying punishing a entire kingdom for mistakes of a few seems kind of harsh.

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Originally Posted by pierniczek

They both use StingerNet extension (browser addon to auto post ops, intel to the bot)
Im sure you can verify with Stinger that those 2 accounts have 2 diffrent owners.

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I don't see anyone claiming they are not two people.

Then can you please send Krissy or Stever the part of the log that actually shows something relevant to two accesses from the same unique device id?

Google smartass while you are at it. Responses like "google x" aren't helpful.

I asked an honest question and your response didn't provide anything new. I googled it and the results were exactly what I already typed out. That string doesn't show anything unique. So unless I am missing something obvious, which is completely possible, you do owe us more of an explanation because your own rules are specific about not sharing devices but say nothing about getting deleted because you both own the same type of device.

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Originally Posted by Frugal Baggins

Bishop, could this be due to the unofficial utopia app? It recently updated and started posting our intel automatically. Could that be the cause of our accounts being flagged?

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Nope, app isn't a factor.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

I don't see anyone claiming they are not two people.

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So what is the problem?

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Originally Posted by Cry0

Then can you please send Krissy or Stever the part of the log that actually shows something relevant to two accesses from the same unique device id?

Google smartass while you are at it. Responses like "google x" aren't helpful.

I asked an honest question and your response didn't provide anything new. I googled it and the results were exactly what I already typed out. That string doesn't show anything unique. So unless I am missing something obvious, which is completely possible, you do owe us more of an explanation because your own rules are specific about not sharing devices but say nothing about getting deleted because you both own the same type of device.

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Actually I was being helpful pointing you in the right direction as I has no inclination to explain the workings of basiic agent detection. But on second thoughts I have no inclination to assist someone that calls me a smartass. Don't post in this thread again.

Cry0 you rant and rant then you expect people to take you seriously suddenly? Pretty funny.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Actually I was being helpful pointing you in the right direction as I has no inclination to explain the workings of basiic agent detection. But on second thoughts I have no inclination to assist someone that calls me a smartass. Don't post in this thread again.

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i told you guys that Bishop has been rather too nice. Go talk to him nicely elsewhere, you might be lucky.

Will you talk to me, Bishop? I didn't call you a smartass!

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Originally Posted by zsivhawk

Will you talk to me, Bishop? I didn't call you a smartass!

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Actually nobody did.

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Originally Posted by pierniczek

Actually nobody did.

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Actually im curios now. What if... What happens if i’m in some pub and sitting in my iphone 6 playing utopia? Using that pubs public wifi. Randomly some another uto player joins in with iphone 6 and uses the same wifi and plays utopia! We two dont know each ohter and play in two different kingdoms.

How do you know we’re 2 different persons? As we use same IP and same product/model to log?

Please explain this because at this moment i’ve reed and checked your pointings and it looks like impossibru according to your log file :)

All the best

tell us exactly how you locate cheaters... for research only of course....

On topic, Krissy seems quite reasonable and calm, I would muzzle Cry0 and have her DM bishop if I was you guys.

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Originally Posted by 2Utopian

tell us exactly how you locate cheaters... for research only of course....

On topic, Krissy seems quite reasonable and calm, I would muzzle Cry0 and have her DM bishop if I was you guys.

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Bishop muzzled cry0 for crying, at least until tomorrow

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Well, this was before your, uh, tough war with UN1T ;)

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As I said, never had a chance. Cannot expect to win honor crown when you're half the size of your main competitor.

On-topic: I went for 3 months to Singapore, informed Bishop beforehand I'd be there. I've been on same internet as Nesta and several other teammates I think. We didn't get deleted.

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Originally Posted by Wee Sin

"My wife allowed me to play on her phone" "My husband helped me play when I was driving him under my instructions"... LOL...
We should start a thread on "Best reasons given about husband and wife X-Log"

hahahahahaha..... Maybe that's why they are called Jesters.... a pro Joker... else where to find such reasons.

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Your nub king xlogged last age and got 2 or 3 provs deleted. Already forgot?

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Your nub king xlogged last age and got 2 or 3 provs deleted. Already forgot?

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http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enha...4867378-28.gif

So the punishment was deletion, not IP banning correct? It's end of age, take a week vacation, make new provinces and join Jesters for next age.

Although, if both are legit, and never used the other devices, that means there might be an issue with xlogging detection; and that certainly should be looked at. Only, however, if they actually 100% are certain they never used the other's device to login.

Wow. This got long fast. My experience in Jesters was that they were honorable. And hello.

~ I'll get back to read this rocket, but I'm in war. They can't pierce my StratOdimium heart: the hardest substance known to babes. ~

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Originally Posted by Robertz

So the punishment was deletion, not IP banning correct? It's end of age, take a week vacation, make new provinces and join Jesters for next age.

Although, if both are legit, and never used the other devices, that means there might be an issue with xlogging detection; and that certainly should be looked at. Only, however, if they actually 100% are certain they never used the other's device to login.

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Krissy and Stever own the same model cell phone and tablet. I believe them, my wife and I have the same phone for the same reason - providers often provide specials where family plans get the same devices.

From what was provided as evidence, the anti-xlogging consists of checking user agent strings. While that typically would work, this is an edge case where it didn't since their IP and device make/models are the same.

Believe them or don't believe them. They have both played in other kingdoms and are definitely a husband/wife married couple.

It sounds like the solution for them is ensuring they are logging on using completely different devices -- one uses a tablet, the other uses a cell phone.

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Originally Posted by Robertz

So the punishment was deletion, not IP banning correct? It's end of age, take a week vacation, make new provinces and join Jesters for next age.

Although, if both are legit, and never used the other devices, that means there might be an issue with xlogging detection; and that certainly should be looked at. Only, however, if they actually 100% are certain they never used the other's device to login.

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I'm 100% sure we DID NOT USE THE SAME DEVICE in the last 24hr like the 1 log bishop sent us said we did.