HaLL Press Release! HaLL farms and they love it!

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Originally Posted by stoffi

This is something being discussed on:


4(1) Active Hostile: Two kingdoms exchaning hits (5 hits from both side the current day.
12(2) Active Hostile: Hostile ends when one part ceases attacks and offers cease fire.
4(3) Active Hostile: If kingdom A waves Kingdom B and the aggressor runs to FW; then they are free to hit after 2 hours if the waved kingdom announce they will not hit into FW
12(4) Interference It should be kept strictly 1 vs 1.
4(5) Crystal Eye: Make sure you take a CE and judge if it is a legal target or not. If you believe you need to approach the kingdoms to find out if it is active or not then do so.
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7End Of Hostile: 8 hours after the waving kingdom has waved (50% or more of the kingdom has attacked) the hostile is over; if the waved kingdom has not retaled.
12End Of Hostile: 2 hours after the waving kingdom has waved (50% or more of the kingdom has attacked) and run to FW to protect the grabbed acres the hostile is over;if the waved kingdom has not retaled.

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so... by your logic the following are perfectly valid

SENARIO 1
KD A waves KD B on 1st of month
KD B sends CF offer on the 2nd
KD A accepts of the 2nd

KD C waves KD A (mainly) or KD B (unlikely) on the 3rd-5th of month

SENARIO 2

assume KD C waves KD A (as above) on the 3rd

there is then ~9+ hours of nothing left for either kd to do really...
so, because neither kd is exchanging hits

if KD A then decides it wants to declare on KD C, there is ample opportunity for KD D to come in and wave either KD A or C before either of them gets army home

SENARIO 3
according to you, ninja waves, 5 mins before month change, mean a hostile isnt going on =)

It seems a lot of things are valid according to stoffi.

We waved a kingdom a couple days ago. They retaled once, sent a CF, then started a dragon and sent a couple more retals. We kept kitting, a few hours later they started hitting again. So they forgot to withdraw their CF. **** happens. Now dopefiends comes in during the middle of this, and waves our KD.

But thats ok right....

You guys are funny, you have your own rules for everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _greenie

so... by your logic the following are perfectly valid

SENARIO 1
KD A waves KD B on 1st of month
KD B sends CF offer on the 2nd
KD A accepts of the 2nd

KD C waves KD A (mainly) or KD B (unlikely) on the 3rd-5th of month

SENARIO 2

assume KD C waves KD A (as above) on the 3rd

there is then ~9+ hours of nothing left for either kd to do really...
so, because neither kd is exchanging hits

if KD A then decides it wants to declare on KD C, there is ample opportunity for KD D to come in and wave either KD A or C before either of them gets army home

SENARIO 3
according to you, ninja waves, 5 mins before month change, mean a hostile isnt going on =)

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That is correct, except Scenario 3.

You forget some things in Scenario 3.

12(2) Active Hostile: Hostile ends when one part ceases attacks and offers cease fire.
7End Of Hostile: 8 hours after the waving kingdom has waved (50% or more of the kingdom has attacked) the hostile is over; if the waved kingdom has not retaled.

Both of those make Scenario 3 impossible.




Scenario 1:

Perhaps you would care to explain to me how it is possible to have an active hostile with a kd you CF'ed with? It is not possible and it is not a hostile. Armies out is not the same as hostile.


Scenario 2:


Correct. Hell, they could declare 10 days later if enough hits were made. Would you have ppl wait 10 days before they wave because it is an "active hostile"?

S1: so, according to you stoffi, say we wave one hall kd that doesn't retal us and sends cf. It is perfectly valid for 2nd hall kd to wave us one minute after cf was sent, even if our wave is not done (i said hall, but it can be abs or w/e u like, I really don't like that KD ABC thing as it confuses me :p). So, we send cf to that 2nd kd and we get waved by 3rd kd. Perfectly valid according to you, as hostile stops when one side sends cf.

S2: we wave one hall kd, they send cf. 2nd hall kd waves us, we want to declare them, but our armies are not home so we wait. 8 hours pass w/o exchanging hits as both kd troops are still out, so it is valid for 3rd hall kd to wave us hour be4 we declare..

Fix your logic plz

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Originally Posted by khedrei

It seems a lot of things are valid according to stoffi.

We waved a kingdom a couple days ago. They retaled once, sent a CF, then started a dragon and sent a couple more retals. We kept kitting, a few hours later they started hitting again. So they forgot to withdraw their CF. **** happens. Now dopefiends comes in during the middle of this, and waves our KD.

But thats ok right....

You guys are funny, you have your own rules for everything.

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I suggest you learn to read before you start whining.

No, it's not okay if you read those guidelines a little better. The only person saying it's okay, is you. I would not say it is okay and if you would care to read what I posted, it's very much NOT okay.

It's okay that ppl don't understand english very well, but you are american I am guessing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

S1: so, according to you stoffi, say we wave one hall kd that doesn't retal us and sends cf. It is perfectly valid for 2nd hall kd to wave us one minute after cf was sent, even if our wave is not done (i said hall, but it can be abs or w/e u like, I really don't like that KD ABC thing as it confuses me :p). So, we send cf to that 2nd kd and we get waved by 3rd kd. Perfectly valid according to you, as hostile stops when one side sends cf.

S2: we wave one hall kd, they send cf. 2nd hall kd waves us, we want to declare them, but our armies are home so we wait. 8 hours pass w/o exchanging hits as both kd troops are still out, so it is valid for 3rd hall kd to wave us hour be4 we declare..

Fix your logic plz

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Scenario 1:

It's not an active hostile and you are free for all to grab.

Scenario 2:

In theory, yes. You say your armies are home, I am assuming you mean out.




Scenario 2 is something I would not approve of. You can't follow the rules blindly.
but how can another kd know if it's an active hostile or not? How can ppl know if you are declaring or not? You might aswell have agreed with the other kd not to hit them, how can other kds know this? They CE you, and can't know what you are thinking.

This is shady territory. Since HaLL kds would talk together, Scenario 2 would never happen. It's not realistic.

However, if you exchange that 3rd kd with some other kd, like ABS or sinners or whatever, they could in theory wave.

But what are the odds of a kd planning to wave you on the exact date you CF another kd, and then another kd waving you exactly 9 hours after you waved AND got waved?
This is not a realistic scenario.


Scenario 1 however, is perfectly fine in my book. Though very few kds could produce a full wave within 30 minutes.

yah, typo. Wanted to say not home :)

okay, let's go back to S1:
rage waves sanc, sanc takes it in the ass and sends cf. doa waves sanc, sanc takes it again and sends cf to doa too.. Rage never accepts cf and waves again. A perfectly valid gangbang :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

yah, typo. Wanted to say not home :)

okay, let's go back to S1:
rage waves sanc, sanc takes it in the ass and sends cf. doa waves sanc, sanc takes it again and sends cf to doa too.. Rage never accepts cf and waves again. A perfectly valid gangbang :)

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Well, if both waving kds are in the same group, it's kinda suspicious ofc.

But it would make it a double hostile if both wave back.

What if aliens land in utopia and kill omac? Who would wave them back? I mean, it's an active hostile!

So... in the end what the hell does this matter?

Fake war is fake war. If someone wants to hit into it then so what?

Stop making this **** up, no one gives a **** ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoffi

That is correct, except Scenario 3.

You forget some things in Scenario 3.

12(2) Active Hostile: Hostile ends when one part ceases attacks and offers cease fire.
7End Of Hostile: 8 hours after the waving kingdom has waved (50% or more of the kingdom has attacked) the hostile is over; if the waved kingdom has not retaled.

Both of those make Scenario 3 impossible.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoffi

Though very few kds could produce a full wave within 30 minutes.

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so, the week long hostile we had with snowflake last age... where we only did hits on the 24th of the month, cause meter was maxed, that doesnt count as an "active hostile" for most of the time?

btw, we often managed 20+ hits in the 5 mins before month change =)

5 minutes? pfft, try 2 minutes.

The logic and ethics in here are dismal.

You can't ambiguously proclaim that a timeframe of hostility exists, and thus expires, after the last attack was made by the aggressor Kingdom. You don't know that the aggressor of the initial wave isn't being opped to hell and back, so you can't use what's in the paper (or what isn't) to justify double-hostiles. If on the '8th hour' you get a spread of riots and other ops or whatever, and then a third Kingdom concludes that the hostile is 'over' and waves, clearly they're benefiting from the initial hostile situation in process between the first two Kingdoms. Additionally, what if the aggressor Kingdom intends to conduct a second wave (greed/feud/whatever)? Who are you to intervene on their conflict just because 8 hours have passed?

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, it's still only an offer that has yet to be accepted, thus the hostility continues to be active until such a time that the CF is closed.

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, which is subsequently accepted, and either Kingdom is in turn waved by a third, this is valid as their hostile is closed. More specifically here, if the aggressor Kingdom makes the mistake of being prepared to close the hostile and finalise relations despite having armies out, it's their own error of being in a position with no relations and them being left defenseless. If they are prepared to close relations with everything out, then they have to live with those consequences; there's little difference between a full wave of randoms and having no relations which puts them in exactly the same position.

Regarding 'Scenario 2', it is not acceptable for any Kingdom to wave either of the two initial Kingdoms involved. Kingdom 'D' has seen that C waved A, thus the intent is obvious and both are in a 1v1 hostile situation.

An active hostile between two Kingdoms, even if one is not making visible attacks, is always active until such a time that the CF is closed or if 48hrs have passed; the reason for the latter is that you can see from a full CE that no attacks have transpired between both Kingdoms. There could be one situation where the recipient of a wave ops the aggressor continually despite making no hits, but the aggressor would continue hitting thus there isn't going to be a situation where both are idle, hence the hostile is continually active.

If you're held to ransom by someone keeping a button on you, then it's your responsibility to plan for that eventuality.

24 hours is fine i think, 8h is too little

stoffi, I won't argue with you, especially if you are going to be childish about it. Enough people here have proven your logic and invention of rules to be foolish. Spheric said things very well and I agree with his points.

Just because HaLL lives by their own set of rules doesnt mean they make sense.

I also didn't whine about anything. I stated a situation about something that happened which by your rules seemed to be ok. Just because it was a real scenerio and not on made up on the spot like the ones by MA and greenie doesn't make it whining.

khedrei "Just because HaLL lives by their own set of rules doesnt mean they make sense."

This is the exact reason why HaLL leaders and a few other un-named leaders from various uto factions are in the process of trying to define and set standards in regard to things like 'What is a hostile' and so on - so that all of uto will have some guidelines because yes as you all notice everyone has different views on various matters and thats somewhat down to the fact there are only game rules but no inner game rules (gamesmenship / ethics).

If there is a server wide code of conduct agreement things will be alot easier to monitor and enforce because there cannot be different views.

Anywho I hope that makes sense.

Peace out rabbit

Awesome, hall is trying to set standards. I see how it started...

Well, maybe I should stop responding to things regarding "HaLL", "standards", "Double hostiles" and "gangbanging".

Since it's all wrapped up in ruels I couldn't possibly comprehense, I'll just sit back an read the talks until I cannot hold back no more.

My emotion during this reading is completely private, of course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _greenie

so, the week long hostile we had with snowflake last age... where we only did hits on the 24th of the month, cause meter was maxed, that doesnt count as an "active hostile" for most of the time?

btw, we often managed 20+ hits in the 5 mins before month change =)

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Only you hit or both hit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

Awesome, hall is trying to set standards. I see how it started...

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This is not something HaLL took initiative to. I suggest you don't speak of things you don't know about.

plz tell me more cos i want to know

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

plz tell me more cos i want to know

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HaLL is the best and pwnest, not to mention 1337. There, that's all I know. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spheric

The logic and ethics in here are dismal.

You can't ambiguously proclaim that a timeframe of hostility exists, and thus expires, after the last attack was made by the aggressor Kingdom. You don't know that the aggressor of the initial wave isn't being opped to hell and back, so you can't use what's in the paper (or what isn't) to justify double-hostiles. If on the '8th hour' you get a spread of riots and other ops or whatever, and then a third Kingdom concludes that the hostile is 'over' and waves, clearly they're benefiting from the initial hostile situation in process between the first two Kingdoms. Additionally, what if the aggressor Kingdom intends to conduct a second wave (greed/feud/whatever)? Who are you to intervene on their conflict just because 8 hours have passed?

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, it's still only an offer that has yet to be accepted, thus the hostility continues to be active until such a time that the CF is closed.

If the recipient of a wave offers a CF, which is subsequently accepted, and either Kingdom is in turn waved by a third, this is valid as their hostile is closed. More specifically here, if the aggressor Kingdom makes the mistake of being prepared to close the hostile and finalise relations despite having armies out, it's their own error of being in a position with no relations and them being left defenseless. If they are prepared to close relations with everything out, then they have to live with those consequences; there's little difference between a full wave of randoms and having no relations which puts them in exactly the same position.

Regarding 'Scenario 2', it is not acceptable for any Kingdom to wave either of the two initial Kingdoms involved. Kingdom 'D' has seen that C waved A, thus the intent is obvious and both are in a 1v1 hostile situation.

An active hostile between two Kingdoms, even if one is not making visible attacks, is always active until such a time that the CF is closed or if 48hrs have passed; the reason for the latter is that you can see from a full CE that no attacks have transpired between both Kingdoms. There could be one situation where the recipient of a wave ops the aggressor continually despite making no hits, but the aggressor would continue hitting thus there isn't going to be a situation where both are idle, hence the hostile is continually active.

If you're held to ransom by someone keeping a button on you, then it's your responsibility to plan for that eventuality.

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My kd is hostile with lots of kds. I hereby claim to be in active hostile....

Where's your logic now?

/me grabs popcorn

My logic is in the same post.

If your Kingdom is genuinely hostile with lots of Kingdoms, then you're in active hostiles. This isn't any different from initial OOP conditions. Your preparedness to hit into multiple Kingdoms concurrently is your own risk; if both retaliate, yes you're in a double-hostile, but it's one of your own doing thus you must live with the consequences. You picked a 1v2 (or more) fight, and those two (or more) Kingdoms weren't the ones that brought this to you.

You'll have to elaborate more because you didn't really expand on the discussion.

/me steals some popcorn from DHaran.

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Originally Posted by DHaran

/me grabs popcorn

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Is that salty or sweet?

This is hilarious. Let's all talk about ethics here:

FWs are technically unethical. Farming is unethical. GBP is unethical.

Sadly these are all things UG has done but yet he claims that ZZ is unethical.

Glad to see that people like to hold others to better standards than they hold themselves. Hypocrite.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoffi

It was not a double hostile. :) The hostile was over. Tagging hostile doesn't make you hostile. :)

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I am really baffled at how you can say that it wasn't a double hostile. Hits were traded right up to the hour before another HaLL KD waved....

Care to show me where we farmed How? You must be right, I forget about those minor stuff like farming..

I shouldn't have to point out farming or any of these things. By your logic, anything you do > what ZZ does. Calling people out for farming other kingdoms is just as bad as breaking CFs, abusing bugs, and everything else you consider unethical.

The funny thing here is that I think that it is really lame and hilarious that you started this thread about farming about ZZ when everyone who plays Utopia knows the "reputation" of ZZ. It just makes you look like a clown trying to prove something that is already known, and in the process you make yourself look bad.

I heard ZZ is evil!

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Originally Posted by How

I shouldn't have to point out farming or any of these things.

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Then please shut the **** up ;)

Absalom is against farming of any kind.

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Originally Posted by OfficialForAbsalom

Absalom is against farming of any kind.

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Sorry, I have to LOL again!

UG (Sinners) farmed hesus (Fratzia) this age (for those who do not know Sinners and Fratzia r allies), so yeah it was kinda hilarious to see Sinners noobs accusing HaLL kds of exactly same things they abused this age themselves.

Yet again what did I expect from munked hypocrites.

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Originally Posted by Drug

UG (Sinners) farmed hesus (Fratzia) this age (for those who do not know Sinners and Fratzia r allies), so yeah it was kinda hilarious to see Sinners noobs accusing HaLL kds of exactly same things they abused this age themselves.

Yet again what did I expect from munked hypocrites.

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Lol, they did?

You got any papers to show? :)

I know UG already is a hypocrit, but he farmed aswell? :)

Ug being the police is like having the local drug lord chief of narcotics department of some PD.

@stoffi, for someone who was done with this thread u sure do have alot of posts AFTER you were thru... And U know what I know U know... so please don't get me started.. You can thank waff for my point of view nowadays...

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Originally Posted by Skieve

@stoffi, for someone who was done with this thread u sure do have alot of posts AFTER you were thru... And U know what I know U know... so please don't get me started.. You can thank waff for my point of view nowadays...

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I know what you know I know you know I know you know I know you know I know.

Skieve, I just don't like hypocrits. :)

"Skieve, I just don't like hypocrits. :)"

How, then, can you like yourself?

I win.