LameQuote:
Originally Posted by protector
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LameQuote:
Originally Posted by protector
I don't play in, lead, or make war deals for SEQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
They added one province after the war was arranged, and it didn't violate the terms of war, as they were still well under the agreed acre size and had been trying to fill their empty province slots since the start of the age.
But I'm sure you were really scared of the 24 hour protection ghetto province with no honor, science, wizards, or time to pump.
They warred us (Green) on similar acreage. Out pumped us and beat us. Why is there so much crying from this thread. And I'm saying this as a guy who's not always had the best history with Francis. But, regardless, they are playing completely within the rules of the game. If you want to get mad, get mad at the game mechanics. This thread is just another example of the community making so many self-imposed rules. And that dictates their perceptions. All FS did was go for honor and that's about it. It's SS's fault for staying small and making themselves food for a bigger KD that's also in the hunt for Honor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
SS should use this as a great lesson to not stay so small and try growing after wars. It's easy to get to top 10 if you try a little and when that happens, it becomes a completely different game with a lot less randoms and much better positioning to feed on those beneath you.
im pretty sure it was 22 vs 25 when war had commenced & both of your 'protection' provs had enough military at start to make hits on chain targets..Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Breaking news!
Its now Pyromaniacs, BB, WSK, Crazies who are now razing SS. Smooth!
FS no basketball one. Birdie tag since start of age. BB also. No soccer ball also. Big Liao then tag. Fail to raze kill my guys, now go raze kill SS. Well, if that fulfil ur mighty ego emptiness, go ahead . No direction one. Knnnnnnpcb
Finally once again the anti abs alliance emerge again..... Hurray . Lol at SS. U must be feeling damn honorable u getting the same treatment as emeriti. Put u at equal status as emeriti. Kinda overrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meezeus
I'm pretty sure the last 2 provs were added after the conflict started and one didn't even make it OOP before the war ended.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
My point remains that FS spends the better part of every age hiding in the ghetto looking to war ghettos that are much less organized than they for easy wins, and in manipulative situations at that.
a few ages i started in a 25 kd, we didnt get wars a few weeks into age. Most ages i started in 21-23 kd we get wars straight OOP. Whats wrong with staying at 22 to get more wars? SS is 22 and no one calls them out for 'hiding'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
You seem to know they're play style. Try it next age if you wanna try for crown. I'm sure its harder than you portray it to be.
Probably because filled out KDs are generally more organized and generally have a more directed target for when they are going to be warring. I've played in KDs everywhere from #1 to near the literal bottom of the game ( I actually spent an age a while ago actively seeking out the smallest ghettos in the game to see what they were doing and try to help them) there is a huge organizational difference between 25 prov warring KDs with a consistent presence dating back many ages in ranks 1-40 and kds nearing the bottom of the top 100.Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
When KDs find themselves outside of the range that's actually indicative of their organization/skill level, it is readily apparent and the situation would ordinarily result in the KD farming people badly (they hid in the ghetto) or getting farmed badly (overgrew their ability). When KDs intentionally place themselves outside a range that's indicative of their ability, that's pretty foul tactics in my book
I have no particular interest in crowning, my sole interest is having interesting conflicts as frequently as possible, even if that means running wars in multiple KDs (No I don't xlog or multiplay)
Well that's your aspiration, as most of us here. but if they are trying to crown and does things within game mechanics to get it, why complain? if you're looking for an interesting conflict, get within range and rape their honor. Are you sure though they were gunning for honor crown from the start of age?
pff cant login now, plz tell me how many RKs so far?
I would assume they were gunning for war and/or honor from the beginning of the age, both of which are heavily facilitated by ghetto-bashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
And no, I don't think saying 'that's just how mechanics work' excuses anybodies behavior or exempts anybody from decency.
The game mechanics allow this group of warring KDs to all raze FS at once, why isn't anyone just telling FS to just suck it up because 'that's how game mechanics work!' and 'They're just using game mechanics to try and secure a crown!'
If people stuck to fighting people of the same or similar relative skill, as opposed to trying to hide from people of similar skill so as to bully people of lesser skill, more people would be playing the game today.
--
Overall, I would say FS declining to come to war terms with SS, stonewalling their attempts for diplomacy, waving the, waving them again while still balking at diplomacy, and then acting surprised when there if some blowback is just exemplary of the outcomes you'll get when you treat people the way FS treats people.
How much more false propaganda you want to diss out? SS had agreed not to compete for Honor crown and they had an agreed war with divinity, hard for SS to gain much if any honor from that. Whereas FS had the rest of age to continue gaining honor.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
Cut the crap, just say you wanted to satisfy the massive void that is your ego. And now calling in your anti-Abs alliance who all had to dealbreak eoacf deals with SS, just to deal with this. Cute. Hope you are feeling proud of yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Over
Only 1 green province on each side last i saw.
Meep: I don't disagree, FS does a number of things that I find distasteful at times.
That said, the effort to GB FS isn't because of distasteful things they've done (like running less than 25 if they've actually done that), it's because they're 'bullying SS by waving them when SS is out of range'. I don't consider waving a kingdom to be inappropriate (though I do frown on bullying, that is not bullying unless it is accompanied by an unwillingness to do diplo for example), and do consider trying to GB a kingdom for waving you just because you couldn't war them to be unacceptable.
The same way that I consider breaking an EOACF just because you feel like you were pushed into making a deal to be unacceptable.
Ultimately, the GB isn't because of mechanics concerns, the GB is because there are people who believe that this specific act is immoral and worthy of a GB. I would disagree with that stance. There are plenty of other things that could be spun into a justification, but that isn't one. To be frank, it seems from my conversations with Mirana that the concern is over making players quit because they're being hit. Again, I feel like the focus is in the wrong place, though I think that is an appropriate focus. If that is the concern, the focus should be on kingdoms that are still running under 25 provs and baiting ghettos into war -- because that's what is most toxic for new players. Not a random hit, and certainly not a wave on another top 5/10 kingdom.
I think that game mechanics allow that a group of disgruntled KDs are able to gangbang you if you manage to leave too many disgruntled KDs in your wake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
I think the risk of gangbang serves as an incentive to not treat everyone around you poorly. This applies to growth KDs, warring KDs, everyone, if you **** on too many people, the risk of a gangbang is there. The more people you've pissed off, the larger the force opposing you is likely to be and the more trouble you're likely to have recruiting people to help you.
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If what SS says about FS ignoring their messages, refusing to work with them, not bothering to talk at all until after the second wave, etc... is true, I'd say that very much qualifies as bullying.
I think that the attempted GB on them is not derived solely from their wave on SS, which on its own looks mostly reasonable. I think that the attempted GB on FS is the product of the way they treat other KDs on the server on a routine basis.
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That said, I think SS was pretty clearly trying to run and end-around on FS to try and get the honor crown in spite of their claims otherwise.
If I'm FS, I just tell SS that if they don't hold to their word w/re to the honor crown, then it will be forcibly taken from them and then let them go on their way to war divinity.
Why bother setting up a big negative to do at the end of an age, put the honor crown at even more risk, and risk even further blowback in future ages?
_Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
+1
Sorry dude, it's you who should stop your propaganda campaign :) It's just not working. You should think about some alternative approach, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
There were lots of more valid points presented in the last few pages, and although it may be fun to argue about "morality", "principles" and "honorable play", but please stop trying to convince the others that SS doesn't care about the honor crown. Actions speak louder than words. Clearer, too.
and thats where this argument is flawed. you assume. IF FS was gunning for honor, and since they've used the same tactics since the beginning of the age, given their notoriety, don't you think they would all be princes by now? I think they're just looking for a fun conflict and realizes they happen to be in the run for honor crown so they go for it. Isn't that how honor crowns are competed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Bullying gets boring pretty quickly. As myself, im sure everyone who is still here in this game looks forward to interesting conflicts. This isn't how it is back then where you glorify yourself and/or your alliance by bullying. what do you get from it anyway? bragging rights among the 30 who actually reads the forums?
And what is this alternative scenario that you mention? That SS will beat Divinity and in the process gain more honor even though Divinity starts with 30k less honor? Obviously you are right actions speak louder than words, shows us perfectly why FS ****played on purpose and why FS waves for honor without responding to SS's cf offer. Cool, thanks for clearing that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exxo
I'm rooting for SS, FS uses dirty tactics and is getting what's coming to them
I mention the scenario of becoming engaged in the process called "logical reasoning". The point stands: in the hypothetical scenario where everyone just hugged each other and went on their own business, and SS just happened to gain enough honor to surpass FS, what would happen next? I assume something along the lines of "oh sure, take it from us, just don't do anything dishonorable like hitting into our eowcf, while we're in it, or into the "active" hostile after we've waved some random KD".Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
"Honor" crown decided by bullying and other not-so-nice behavior? Yes, that sucks, and it's been like that for a very long time if I'm not mistaken. But I don't see how trying to sneak your way to it is any better.
Obviously being the mighty fs, you always hit first then ask questions later. Why waste time doing diplomacy with ghetto noobs. Need more people to join in and help fs, that'll teach them lowly peasants who try to stand up to superpowers like fs.Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
^^^^^ so much thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Reut Sharabani
That argument is lacking. The game also allows for pretty decent gains razing into a war. So by your logic that would mean that razing into war is just fine and dandy since the game rewards it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale
Read the description of honor in the game. If they want to earn an honor crown it would help if they were honorable. They have been everything BUT honorable
What part of stealing, killing, casting death magic and taking things by force is honorable?
That argument is laughable. Honor is just what the resource is called.
far as I know FS was offered war by SS on even ground and declined. I understand that you had no say in this, but your leadership did. Bottomfeeding is not playing to the best of your ability. Warring Divinity or giving SS the chance to even out acre/land margin before warring would have been playing to the best of your ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
.. they have been everything BUT honorable, so let's honorably GB them and take the crown for ourselves. Purrrfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Seriously, if half of this thread went into the suggestions board, the rest would be easier to reason about.
Got lost from all the pro-FS propaganda? Here let me help you: SS never wanted to crown, already said we will give away whatever honor received from this war, as long as FS doesn't crown. The other kds hititng fs are on their own accord, unlike the clear gb fs organized with their allies BB, Crazies, Wsk and Pyro. BB, Crazies, Wsk and Pyro had no beef with us, unlike the kds hititng you. On top of that, the majority of kds hitting SS have EOACF with SS in place, therefore clear dealbreaking just to help fs gangbang SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exxo
To verify: you are denying that there is/was a whatsapp group created to organize the GB on FS, and that kds GBing FS have broken EOA deals to do so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke_
where is blizz at?
@Duke I second that. There is no organized allies hitting FS...just everyone they have screwed over using unmoral playing. None of us even have allies. We have never met SS or any other kingdom against you.
oooh but now you organize BB, Crazies, Wsk and Pyro to hit on a kingdom half their nw? Your cool. The game could loose more players over this. just admit you played unmoral tactics and are bullying. This can go away and we all learned something.
Maybe I did, who knows, right? Just riddle me this: if SS doesn't want the crown, what really kept them from accepting the EOACF deal that guaranteed they wouldn't get it? I didn't quite understand the term about not warring the KDs that FS was CFed with, but the other terms sounded reasonable. If you don't care about the numbers on your "honor" meter, that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke_
Saying "sure, take it away" can be easily based on the hope that in the end people won't bother, or won't have the time to do so, or whatever other reasons may pop up into existence. If you don't like how the system works - be constructive, propose a better one. I also don't, and I've been on the receiving side of such treatment, from that very FS if I'm not mistaken. But all this act of "righteous judgement taking place"™ is very old and smelly.
Why am I not supriced to see fs in a situation like this huhu...
I stopped reading right here....I think we will take your advice. I tried to tell you before and so did others, you are breaking your own neck.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
would help if you also stopped posting.
But you see this cf deal was only proposed by FS after full waving SS (mostly on the tms) when they had agreed war, and in the process destroying any prospect of said war from ever occurring. If FS had responded to SS's message about a cf prior to engagement, or maybe put forward their own cf offer before waving SS, we would have likely come to an agreement. But thats not how it went, they full waved us twice before they were even willing to discuss cf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exxo
Grabs a bag of popcorn. Kicks off shoes and watches the show.
Best historical reference I can think of, SS is england, FS is Nazi Germany. People are mad because Vichy France is getting back into the war after making an agreement under duress with the Nazis