Sounds like business as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
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Sounds like business as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Everything in this game is open to interpretation, abs has allways been on the forefront of that opinion, if not in words than in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
They redifined so many rules and weaseled out of so many bad actions its not even funny, allways to their benefit.
Only difference flooger broke one cause he belives they desrved it, when they do it its allways wraped up in 100 pages of forums posts explaining apple is not really an apple ... its actually been a pear all this time.
He did it opently and does not wraps it up in excuses, I respect that.
Sheister,
I didn't deny anything that was true. I admitted and apologized for Emeriti's failure to live up to their own standards and the standards of utopia by advising a friend to force a cf by hitting into post war. The parts I did deny (and still do) are related to wrong claims including those claiming that emeriti sent Outsiders after Pyro and Meep after BB, that Emeriti organized a farm war for themselves with the kingdom who waved them, and that Bours hits were made to help Emeriti. All of these false accusations can be refuted simply by thinking about the logic of them all. Nesta13 himself said that Outsiders were a farm war for Pyro but pyro messed up internally and that resulted in them having to wd up in land instead of getting the win. Why would Emeriti want Pyro to get a farm war? Likewise, BB warred oop and was a solid #2 thanks to the war. Why would Emeriti want this? Accusations of Emeriti farming gold into your war were just LOL and I doubt those in Pyro lieing about it even believed that at all.
As for Bour, why would he try and peacefully cf first if his goal was to help Emeriti? Why would he offer all land back plus more for a cf at the time he razed if it was to help Emeriti? Why would he then up his offer to all land back plus more plus free gc to help fat Bb prep for Emeriti? This simply does not help Emeriti at all and all of his actions clearly point to one thing -- trying to get a cf for himself. Emeriti did advise him to threaten to raze to get a cf and also to raze if they wouldn't cf him. This is what Emeriti did wrong and admits to and apologizes for, but it was no "FSU" attempt. The FSU kingdoms that have waved Emeriti to help other top kingdoms refuse to give any land they took back and generally refuse to cf. Bour's attempt to get himself a cf was nothing liek that.
The deal between Emeriti was not made on any deception from Emeriti. Flogger claimed it was at first but was caught lieing about that and later admitted that he knew who bour was when he made the deal and he made the deal with the intention of breaking it. I also would like to reiterate that BB had multiple offers from bour that were sitting on the table the whole time asking for a cf and offering all land back plus more free acres. No one forced Bb to reject Bour's cf offers and BB was always free to take the free land and not had their position relative to Emeriti damaged.
You say that those pretending to be without fault and 100% clean are wrong and should remain silent. I can only assume you are directing this at BB since they are the only ones I've seen that repeatedly pretend that they are perfect despite all of those that point out specifics of when they were **** played by BB. If so then I applaud your integrity to call your ally out on their dishonesty.
Damn in all the alliance wars ive been in, i dont think we ever had half the accusations and discussions about he said this or he said that.
Hell even Jaco would admit " normally " what actually happened or what he did to start it. NHA/VBI didnt have this much discussion with all the kds involved then.
No ASF, I refer to the Emeriti personnel who claimed that Emeriti was 100% clean as a whistle while spitting on pyro (and me directly because I play in pyro) and BB. That is not an act of contrition or responsibility.
The gold I referred to was not on emeriti's part, it was on pyro's part last age as we have discussed.
Before we go into the difference between members and leadership, please note that I, as a mere member, am being painted with all the actions of the leadership of pyro in all occasions by members of Emeriti. Ergo, I can likewise paint them with conspiracy and Emeriti's shady play.
ASF, I can't speak for Bour or his mind. All I can say is there is a clear log where there is a conspiracy to use Bour in a manner consistent with what actually occurred. In any court, that's good enough for conspiracy. It meets the planning and substantial step tests. You may recall from the materials posted on conspiracy that Emeriti chose not to use any of the actions that would provide for a defense to conspiracy and have waived many of them through statements and actions since.
Your sole argument is that you made an offer that to your mind should have been sufficient. Others disagree. To support the argument you say "others have done worse things". Those things were actioned to the satisfaction of the dev's, or the aggrieved parties. To date, this one has not yet.
I can only agree with godly than flogger has set a sad precedent where it's fine to deal break. I've found it sad that flogger and bb have spent their goodwill they collected over the ages on it, but flogger's history with abs and losing to them last age seems to have caused him to act contrary to his reasonable self. Maybe his douchy partner protector convinced him.
It's a sad way to waste an age imo - I'm bored.
I agree that this is boring.
I don't think flogger/BB have spent all their goodwill. I think they are earning new goodwill. At present, from my personal perspective, they will stand to lose goodwill if they accept the proposals submitted to date. Given that they have lost the goodwill of Emeriti, there is nothing for them to gain at present by accepting the proposals.
I used to believe that there was goodwill to preserve, but as these conversations have dragged on both in this forum and in IRC, I realize there never really was to begin with. I therefore call the goodwill loss argument a smokescreen to obfuscate the fact that there has never really been true good faith on the part of Emeriti because it is demonstrable from the logs that Emeriti was always willing to entertain the conspiracy outlined in the logs.
Any serious top player can understand why it hurts the value of future top deals when flogger can deal break without consequence. Especially when at its core it seems to be about settling old scores and last age's loss.
.donate
Any reasonable person should be able to understand that use of deception and a conspiracy to obtain a deal invalidates the deal.
#oddplay11
What does last age's loss have anything to do with anything? I've lost tons of wars. Its not our side that felt entitled to be able to do whatever it wanted without consequence. #narrativeQuote:
Originally Posted by munk
Breaking news. Munk & Godly newest addition to abs fanboy club. Next to come. Elit and Anri.
It most certainly is your side that feels this way. Emeriti offered reasonable consequences (i.e. whatever bb felt needed to fix their position). Again, Emeriti didn't even touch you and certainly didn't deal break you. A solo province did in part at Emeriti's advice on how to get a cf. Had you just given him that cf there would ahve never been a problem. Even after he hit, he still immediately offered all land and more back for a cf well before you had any idea who he was. You lie about and deny the facts until they are proven and then once they are you try and ignore them. While it may not be considered "nice" to advise a "farm" on how to get a cf with you, it's not even close to the "worst stuff" in Utopia and is done all the time by top kingdoms. Still Emeriti apologized and offered whatever was needed to fix it for BB (yes Emeriti giving their own cow land to bb for a prov in a different kd trying to cf you is a consequence.)Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
BB are the ones that broke their word, their official deal they agreed to, waved and dragoned into a war, and more. Now it's BB who insists that they take no consequences whatsoever for their dishonorable play that was completely unnecessary and unjustified. So once again, your statement above is clearly a lie since yes it is your side who thinks they can do whatever they want without consequences.
Also waht does your massive farm out to Emeriti despite starting 10% bigger and you also getting owned by them the age before despite having stocked an extra weeks worth of gc have to do with anything? Well your fear of fighting Emeriti 1v1 in any sort of fair fight seems to be one of your driving factors in your demands from the start. That coupled with your long stated desire to beat Absalom in an awar seem to be your main motivating factors in all of this.
eh?? Now you're outright lying, sheister. I'm not in the LS channel and have never pretended to know what gets discussed there. Stop making sh*t up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
so I take it you don't apologize and agree ya deserve it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
And wait, we feared emeriti in a 1 on 1 war despite us exploring to war you, you asking for a year 10 ceasefire and us saying no?
Makes sense in the midwest , I guess.
I apologized and agreed that Emeriti should offer and give what was needed to ensure BB was in no way hurt by what happened.
I don't feel that deal breaking is justified or even close to being justified. I also don't feel that waving into war against your ally is in any way justified. A reasonable solution with reasonable benefits for Bb and consequences for Emeriti was justified. You rejected that because instead you wanted to try and ride this to the most overblown reaction you possibly could.
Now it's you who continues lieing and as with before claims BB to be free of sin in everything.
*lying
Quoting entire posts is getting ridiculous. Assume we have read them already and please truncate that nonsense.
I never said you were in the leadership channel. I said you denied that emeriti did anything wrong. Learn to read before saying I make things up please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious
How many of you pervs have clicked to meet Thai singles?
Nup. I can read, and I'll say it again...you are lying. I dont discuss Emeriti with you or anyone else except in the broadest of terms. The only thing I've ever denied to you was some rather stupid argument you were making abt last age, saying that Emeriti "sh*tplayed the hell out" Pyro when leshrak went afk on nesta mid convo (he does that to me too, the rascal!) and never finalized cf terms or smt. I replied "bullsh*t" to your claims that such a thing would qualify as "sh*tplay" and justify Pyro's participation in a dealbreak/gangbang which is what you were insinuating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
In response to that, you went into some long winded diatribe full of legalese abt how conversations are legally binding even when nothing is finalized blah blah "estoppel" blah blah. And I went zzZZzZ...
lol
I would like to clarify some of the confusion regarding Pandas and Sillies CF.
The CF deal was made long before any of this, Sillies told us they only grew to war WSK, that the top 1 was never their objective. We told them it was good, since both kds had good relations, that we didn't set for top 1 either, were mostly on a war age, even if having extreme difficulty in finding them.
Later we decided to wave 8:11, after we noticed that they changed their one way razes into a third party war and their monarch hit Sleepy. 8:11 was tagged CF or War as well and being the only kd in our range who was available and with an interesting setup allied to an agressive attitude, we decided to send a partial wave to tempt them to war.
They informed us that they were still involved in the awar and we reached a CF deal with 8:11 alone.
No other deal was made with any other kd nor about the AWAR. We did inform all parties and CJ was aware of it aswell, that we had no interest in the awar and were remaining neutral as we were until then.
Some days later we became aware of new developments and information, that changed the way many felt about this awar. The entry of other kds with whom with had friendly relations joined allied to the new facts, made us decide that we should participate in this awar.
Sillies were worried we would get a lot of land and get our way to top 1, to which we stated again that being top 1 was not our objective, if it happened it would be nice, but never an objective. Something I believe that could not be more clear by the fact that we joined an awar, a type of conflict that is certainly not the best strategy to grow.
I have never seen anyone defending that participating in a conflict vs several kds, with trading attacks, razes, bounces, all the ops from various sides, would be a good strategy to get your way to the top. I truly believe this to be one of the most awful ways to try and win ages, but I strongly advise kds that believe its possible to try it if we are in a age fighting for the top 1, because I believe it would make our life easier.
Accusing Pandas of using this awar to grow or to run from a CF deal, is just not fair and incorrect, since should we want to take advantage of the situation, we would never take part on this war and use the time to grow easily oow and explore safely.
This by no means is equal to anyone accusing Sillies and CJ of taking advantage of this situation, but it is clearly an optimal position to be if you want to and are in a good spot to go for the top 1.
Should write down some tips for starting alliance wars. 4 or 5 per age might help the game a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
Ha funny, the fake warring alliance chart shaping cheater is calling me a liar. If I'm such a liar, and you and your cronies are so innocent, why are you in this mess in the first place? Not only are you and your cronies horrid cheaters, you try to pretend like you are some sort of victim, and now you want to be a martyr with this delusional CF. You dig yourself a deeper hole every day, you are trying to convince others to join your side instead of manning up to your insipid cheating alliance. In the process you alienate those that exhort Utopian Justice and you only insult them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
Classic psychological projection. Sad, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdigie
Who the hell is this bombdigigity lady? Because I fight for whoever tells me the name of his prov.
I agree that the slippery slope argument has teeth to it. BUT - I think if you're going to question the validity of a CF, it seems like a fairly good reason to do so if the CF was acquired virtually as a result of suggesting your allied province raze into that kd's EOWCF. What's the alternative, godly/munk? If you call the BB/Emeriti CF entirely legitimate, then aren't you similarly setting the precedent that people can get legitimate CFs by having friends raze into EOWCFs?
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...he_Black_HordeQuote:
Originally Posted by Chrystal Palace
Leader of OOO
Lies I sent you in game message.
You are wrong.. Our CF was only agreed on day 2 of my eowcf. It was then where I had to decide what were Sillies plans after eowcf, and how much we needed to draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMP
(The leadership of Pandas and me did talk prior to my war with WSK, but nothing was confirmed then)
April 18 of YR4 We have proposed a ceasefire offer to Pandas at WARRRRR (PA:NDA).
April 18 of YR4 Pandas at WARRRRR (PA:NDA) has accepted our ceasefire proposal!
It was mentioned in our CF talks that both of us had no interest in joining the awar, and would be staying out of it.
The rationale that you guys gave to wave X:XX (kingdom taking part in awar on Emeriti's side) 1 day after we CF is just weak imo. You took SN and saw 1 hit by their monarch onto sleepy, while the rest of the kingdom was razing Pyro. I dont see how this indicates that this kingdom isnt part of the awar. You took 7k acres from X:XX for a CF.. And I was like.. ehh.. okay.. if Pandas wanna take these acres to grow and prep for our war. so be it. I wont be doing that. Maybe the cJ of 2+ ages ago would do it. After the CF, your leadership insisted that you guys are neutral and would stay out of the awar.
Fast forward to a few days ago, (when our CF would be less than 1 week from expiry). you guys decided to join/rejoin in the awar. I was like hmmm... After discussion with my kingdom mates, we decided to honour our CF with you guys and believe that Pandas truly felt a convinction to go after emeriti/abs. We were close to just #yolo and wave you all. yeah.
At the end of the day, have fun in your awar :)
And let's leave sillies-panda out of this thread.
---
I agree with what Godly has posted in this thread. I dont see the awar coming to a diplomatic end... so yeahh just kill yourselves then.
I really don't understand how many time I will have to repeat this: the razes had nothing to do with helping emeriti. I razed because I wanted to secure a CF to protect my #1 province and my kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
Everytime you talk about this, you're saying the logs prove there was a conspiracy and that a court would agree to that. But you're wrong, because there are other evidences, like all the offers I made to BB that owuld have made BB stronger than before the raze, makes your conspiracy theories laughable and completely stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheister
If CJ wasn't neutral, this would have been over in less than 96h with both Pyro and BB totally destroyed. You should be thankful that CJ stayed neutral and kissing his ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheister
Lol. I hope this was a bad troll attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
Our war agreement was done long before your notice, so, bai! I dont see how "extending yr x + notice" into "we war at yr x" is bypassing a notice. Its a simple extend to give them additional preptime. Your logic is far to seek ;p
Yea its all one big conspiracy orchestrated by me. I've managed to get Emeriti council to have their friends raze BB into war just so I could start this war. Uhu. /sarcasmQuote:
Originally Posted by munk
Sheister, if you and Felonious were Batman and Robin, you would be Robin.
Your inherent ramblings against decent players needs to stop before you embarrass yourself
Actually if you would do something else than lame "defending your mate" it Sheister has very consist and coherents posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DM_Benjamin
Asserting something is wrong does not make it wrong any more than the assertion that the earth is flat makes it flat. Your argument that you would have made BB stronger has been refuted by flogger elsewhere and I won't rehash it here. That you are unable to understand how that is true further indicates to me that you are mentally incapable of having acted independently in this matter, further deepening my belief in the conspiracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDie
Now you are just being ridiculous. BTW, when will you man up and actually be who you are Bour? I am still waiting for you to show that basic level of intestinal fortitude that God gave the common garden slug. Then we will work on a spine from there.Quote:
If CJ wasn't neutral, this would have been over in less than 96h with both Pyro and BB totally destroyed. You should be thankful that CJ stayed neutral and kissing his ass.
As opposed to trolling everyone on the forums and crying to Bishop?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Be quiet or I'll hit you with my wallet
Oh man, that is so hilarious you are so butthurt its unbelievable. Nobody needs to cry to Bishop (Not that he would listen either way) when people like you dont know to behave. So simply put dont blame others for your shortcomings.Quote:
Originally Posted by DM_Benjamin