lol you forgot the reading instructions :PQuote:
Originally Posted by duckels
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lol you forgot the reading instructions :PQuote:
Originally Posted by duckels
That's not markers. You're looking in the wrong kingdom FS.
The offensive nature of FS business is based in the resistance not the capitulation of kingdoms who wouldn't fight you.
And yes, I know better. But besides that I stil think you're a bunch of nice guys suffering mob fury.
Well, somehow u have enough time to spam 70 pages in this thread :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Somehow im not surprised. Seems like another lie and attempt to change the topic.
Oh really? On the topic of lies......Quote:
Originally Posted by Loiso
FS King (well it seems to change the whole time)
"Anyway, we aint exactly happy when ppl break the deal made. Still we are not going to double hostile you for sure, do not worry about it. Besides you are already 1m nw smaller..."
Meteor to the face (aka Sampuan)
"sure you can fight them, but why them and not us? i could have waved you and not back off as well and just decided to keep away out of respect instead."
Then you go DB and DH.
p.s sorry for changing the topic(!)
Ok, so a number of people in the FS/BB/Pyro/Crazies/Wsk alliance revealed that they had a little competition to see who would do the most damage to SS, and I hereby announce the results:
The person with the second most number of razes into SS is... looks like we have a three way tie! With a huge sum of 50 razes, round of applause for Fast Convenient from Pyro, Trojan ultra long also from Pyro, and Spaarvarken from BB! Wow, nice job by Protector! That's what we call leading the alliance from the front!
However, the person with the MOST number of razes into SS ... With a whopping 54 razes, it's Giving you the Finger from Crazies! Well done Sir, you win the prize for the most obedient sheep, Congratulations!
Now time for the kingdom awards! In third place, with 415 razes, it's BB's little sister, Crazies! And in second place, with 434 razes, its BB's best happy buddy forever, Pyro! And in first place, with a massive 552 razes, and absolutely destroying the rest of the competition is the head of the alliance itself, give it up ladies and gentlemen, for BB!!! I'm sure they earned their bragging rights with this result, and in turn would recruit many more puppets to join their reigning alliance in order to serve BB and their master, Protector. That's all folks, until next time when the Feyr play alliance is again needed!
Maybe you should take over leadership, unless you are just as much of a hypocrit like the rest of your kd posting crap here, FS didn't "do 1 wave against a kd within 110% relative NW" like you said. Rather they did 2 waves and still refuse to CF against SS who was over 160% your NW and hence way out of declare range. You still think that's legitimate and not bottom feeding? Also maybe you should learn it's not always the best idea to wave the kd again while CF discussions are still in place like the case with SS. Also you just contradicted yourself again in your post, FS put out ridiculous CF terms after waving and still kept waving us before we can come to an agreement, and you would still continue hitting because SS was still above your proposed 85% honor at that stage, so either just admit your ****play and bullying or stop posting crap that try make your actions accountable in all this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmiedema
Sounds like someone got rekt.
"did not took any part..." "did not tried to benefit from it.."Quote:
Originally Posted by Loiso
that hurts to read ><
Oh look the monarch of FS who keeps spewing more BS to cover up your own actions and try misleading everyone. With Ruthless situation you said all smaller kds needed to do was do diplo with you. With SS situation, how the hell you expect us to diplo when you intentionally ignore our messages? SS also offer you landdrop to war on equal terms and you refuse, and SS ate 2 waves without any retals and you still wouldn't accept any reasonable CF. Stop posting crap and try to reason against your ****play, go back and report to your masters BB and protector.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loiso
And this Ladies and Gentlemen is this age's HONOR crown winner. But at least they didn't commit any actionable offenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
This is in a nutshell what 7 seperate kingdoms, that usually never even cross paths have all described FS' behavior as. But at least they didn't commit any actionable offenses...or if they did they at least didn't get caught...or if they got caught at least there was reasonable doubt
The thing is, currently (to any kingdom that has played at the top level, and yes I agree maybe someone like Zauper should make a post explaining the current "Do Not List") hitting a smaller kingdom is not an actionable offense. In the example of SS, they knew they were #2 honour, they knew they didnt have an actual written CF agreement with FS, and all throughout the "SS vs WSK" thread people were saying things like "Watch out SS, FS is coming for you" and "SS better explore up all their explore acres to be ready for FS after they get out of war". So they knew we were coming for them, and choosing to not explore their pool in order to stay small (thinking for some reason that the server would be against #1 honour kd FS waving the #2 honour kingdom SS) is just a strategic error on their part.
Before SS went to war with WsK, we had asked SS for war (on even terms, we would drop down to their acres or give them time to get up to ours) they refused war in a way that made it very clear that they were going to avoid warring us the rest of the age. So no, we weren't going to let them jump into another war with the possibility of them running it out to the end of the age with no chance of us ensuring the crown. Any kingdom in our shoes would do the same. Now, if they had an actual confirmed war with Divinity, and both kingdoms confirmed this and/or tagged their kingdoms as going to war against each other, we would have honoured that, and not hit into the arranged war, as that is a much more actionable offense than "bullying" (put in quotes because I understand you think what we did is bullying, though any top kd monarch will tell you that is not the utopia definition of bullying).
The actual situation is that they saw us intelling them in preparation to wave them, and message us saying to not wave them, and that they "might" be going into a war, and it might be with divinity. Well.. for one, divinity is bigger than us, and you already think we are "bullying" so not sure what your plan with divinity was if not to avoid us. Secondly, you were a kingdom out of eowcf, without a confirmed war, without a CF with terms attached to it, #2 in honour, with Prince T/M's within 105% relative networth to approximately 2/3 of our Undead attackers. Of course we are going to hit you, and of course it is completely legitimate. THAT is the reason the majority of the kd's saw what happened and said we did nothing wrong. THAT is the reason why we werent actioned, and the kingdoms involved in actioning us were actioned on instead PRIMARILY because GB without cause and confirmed Dealbreaking are two ACTIONABLE offenses to the community.
This is a war game, and action and a certain degree of "unfairness" is allowed. We ate waves from other kd's and got CF's out of it all age. Not that we always do that (example settlers being bigger than us and waving us, and we took it to war and secured a major advantage and victory at the 48 hour mark) but every 1v1 conflict without dealbreaking involved is allowed, that is the nature of the game, like it or not. Every time you are waved by a kingdom you have to decide if retaliation is worth it, do a loss assessment, and gauge whether conflict benefits the goals that your kingdom has set out to accomplish in the age. Almost exclusively for any WW/Honour kingdom it is not worth it to escalate a conflict with a kingdom bigger than them. At the same rate, most of those kingdoms in turn probably do unfair attacks and randoms into kingdoms smaller (sometimes much smaller) than them. That is the nature of this game. The biggest mistake new players make in this game is trying to protect the resources of their individual province rather than figuring out what is best for the kingdom as a whole. Doesn't mean you can't take notes on the kingdoms that wave you and CF you. You can then wait for them to go to war, then get into a position where you are stronger than them after the war and (assuming your CF allows for it) retaliate on them in full after their war, or later in the age.
There is a give and get to this game, every kingdom knows it. Sorry this conflict had to escalate to where it did, but we refuse to be wrongfully GB'd. If between ages we have a big discussion as a community and we can agree as a community that hitting a kingdom a certain % smaller than you is bad form and actionable then by all means we won't do it. But GB'ing a kingdom due to a non-actionable offense will be dealt with in force, every time.
I do welcome discussion (in a separate thread) on the creation of a list of actionable offenses, as well as a list of things that are bad form, but not actionable. This would help the community a lot. Also, maybe a thread (stickied) on what is expected in contract CF's and War Agreements, what is binding, and what constitutes the breaking of a war agreement. I suggested it last age too, that maybe a "war agreement form" be drawn up so that any kingdom can keep the same format for war terms, that way it is more black and white on what the breaking of those terms represents, and what aspects of that dealbreak are actionable.
Stop whining folks
Winner is Winner, doesnt matter how. FS did it, BB usally do it, Pyro, CR and who knows do it. Even Svea did it
This game is all about winning and how to Crown.
If you feel offended and someone fooled you on the cake..well create Alliances and fight it back
I miss Alliance wars....TA, ABS, CSB, Hall, HaJ, Force and so on
Lets bring it back and new aspect to Utopia this last ages of fame....we need a new apect to the game again
Cheers everyone....whiskey on me
Didn't FS try to diplomatically resolve conflict with SS? And Heathen/markers rejected after 2nd wave was already finished?Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
I've read the stance that it's fair for FS to wave while diplo, I just want to say that Flogger and Protector told me and demanded of me that it's normal courtesy to hold hits while a diplomatic solution is reached if it's ongoing... So if FS was hitting trough, it seems a bit unfair and maybe BB should tell them about the invisible rule book too...
Still doesn't warrant dealbreak on this account, there's a difference between courtesy and dealbreak, all I can say is maybe don't offer FS courtesy in the future, like b2b warring them if they lose, as that's perfectly fair or put in deals they can't go for honour crown if they want a CF.. After all this, it's a fair thing to do according to what's been said, which means they set a dangerous presidence for the coming ages.
Telling someone they can't play because hands are forced by a deal is also ****play nightmare... which was proven last age when a deal was overturned as unfair by community after being agreed, again an example of a **** presidence set by the top.
Make the rulebook for all to see and use it to enforce instead of all this ****, won't happen as top likes to use wordplay to get around invisible rules, if written down that wouldn't be doable.
Quote FS Best KD in the World
"Oh look the monarch of FS who keeps spewing more BS to cover up your own actions and try misleading everyone. With Ruthless situation you said all smaller kds needed to do was do diplo with you. With SS situation, how the hell you expect us to diplo when you intentionally ignore our messages? SS also offer you landdrop to war on equal terms and you refuse, and SS ate 2 waves without any retals and you still wouldn't accept any reasonable CF. Stop posting crap and try to reason against your ****play, go back and report to your masters BB and protector."
If I recall they said something along the lines of "Land drop first and we will consider warring you" We would have land dropped if we had a set war agreement, but they wouldn't agree to a war agreement at that time, so we werent going to land drop ourselves for no reason.