High homes = bad

Ordray , Your evilness is beyond that of a normal person, for as a normal individual might make mistakes, you insist on them, and even though you have failed to kill my province, , after 72 hours , is way over proving a point, its right out of hatred and evilness , because your ego has been hurt, and seeks for retribution by the hurts of others.

After 72 hours, you had time enough to kill quad tap, and having clearly failed, in more than the minimum time a war lasts, you are to withdraw your forces from Quad Tap .


Know that my province represents all that is good, and that if you keep striking on my brave troop, the hammer of justice shall and will fall upon you.



Evil Alliance, do right by the All Mighty Force ;
hand over to gojete, the acres of Quad tap which you have taken. He has come on behalf of the All Mighty Force to support the ruler of Quad Tap, and is quite ready to make peace, if you are willing to do right, so long as you give up Quad Tap, and make amends for attacking it.

Evil alliance , if you do not do so, I am a commander, wherever I come across your provinces in Quad tap , if they are not willing to obey I shall make them leave, willing or not. And if they are willing to obey, I will have mercy upon them.

Know that if they will not obey, gojete is coming to wipe them out. He comes in behalf of the All Mighty Force - an eye for an eye- to drive you out of Quad Tap . And gojete promises and guarantees that he will cause such a great clash of arms there that not for a dozen ages has another one so great been seen in Utopia, if you do not do right.

And believe firmly that the All Mighty Force will send more force to him and his good men-at-arms than you would be able to have in a hundred assaults.

You , provinces, soldiers who are attacking Quad Tap, go back to your own land, in the All Mighty Forces name. And if you do not do so, watch for gojete, and you will shortly contemplate your misfortunes.

Do not think otherwise, for you will never hold Quad Tap from the All Mighty Force , from gojete , but rather it will be held by Knight ogt , the true heir, to whom the All Mighty Force has given it, who will enter your provinces with a fine contingent of troops.

If you do not believe the tidings from the All Mighty Force and gojete, wherever we find you we will strike against you harshly, and you will see who will have the better right, the All Mighty Force or you .

Ordray ,self proclaimed killer of Quad Tap , reply if you want to make peace or not at the province of Quad Tap. If you do not do so, then you will contemplate your misfortunes .
Gojete asks and requests that you will not cause your own downfall. If you do not do right, you will be able to see before your very eyes that in his company, the All Mighty Force will do the finest deed ever done in Utopia

Written in Quad tap as of March 4 of YR2 (next tick: 37 minutes)
From the All Mighty Force and gojete.
To Ordray , who calls himself killer of Quad Tap, general of the Evil alliance and to the Evil alliance .

I'm impressed that gojete managed to compare being attacked in utopia to genocide and the eugenics movement and people are still responding.

Is this some kind of experiment to see if you can kill a troll by overfeeding it?

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Originally Posted by Eldest

I'm impressed that gojete managed to compare being attacked in utopia to genocide and the eugenics movement and people are still responding.

Is this some kind of experiment to see if you can kill a troll by overfeeding it?

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I think that we did. His last post makes even less sense than the average Gojete post. If that's possible ;) He might have finally snapped.

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Originally Posted by ordray

boko, you shall suffer the same fate as these other feeble peons! Prepare to die! (in case someone doesn't pick up the joke, that's what it is.)

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attica! Attica!!!

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Originally Posted by Dragonite

LOL you get +20-30% more population. Now I have to prove you wrong with math.

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I hope you aren't a math major. 50% homes gives +15% pop, and that's at 100% BE, which you won't be at since you are running 75% draft. 20-30%? Are you high?

maybe with housing science? but it wasnt said.

ok guys I am now actually worried about gojete mental state. I think we should should leave him alone ignore any posts.
this is not a piss take. I think we should just leave him be, let him do what he wants too and just correct any misinformation he may post.

lol. maybe one of us should invite him to thei kingdom and show him real kingdom strats

or we can just feed the troll more and see how far he will go?

his last post was close to fundamentalist delirium with dreams of grandeur and worship of some unknown god. how much farther can he go?

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Originally Posted by E_Boko

lol. maybe one of us should invite him to thei kingdom and show him real kingdom strats

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http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...?617850-gojete

edit:
We may not we a top kingdom but we put up a good fight.
Also you can only offer horse and water comes to mind

Did i miss the memo where personal attacks were now allowed? Knock off the crap, i expect to receive 0 reports about this thread from now on.

hey i guess the weekend is over. bish is back lol

/me wonders who was the snitch.
/me has stitches ready to give

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Originally Posted by E_Boko

maybe with housing science? but it wasnt said.

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Exactly Boko! Maybe if they poured a huge amount of science into pop then the 20-30% would be possible with 50% homes, but all they have been saying is "high homes are good." We all know that statement is obviously false. However, if people wanted to run high homes and make it work then they will have to put more effort into the build than just simply saying more homes = more troops = more win. Herp derp!

This thread has dragged on for long enough though. >.<

eh. i can understand how in the ghetto its better. high homes does give you better numbers at the cost of province stability in war time. so if no one chains you, high homes is better. thats just not the case in any level of gameplay but the most ghetto of ghettos.

Even in the ghetto high homes isn't good. A decent normal strat would be way better than high homes no matter what level of gameplay.

Bishop, if I pay pal you a dollar would you please lock this thread?

There are a few reasons to lock threads up, bribery is not one of them.

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Originally Posted by Palem

There are a few reasons to lock threads up, bribery is not one of them.

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I'll pay you $2 to make bribery a reason to lock a thread.

hmm...

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Originally Posted by Palem

hmm...

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lol he is thinking about it XD

ill up the anti. ill get ya an invite into my kingdom ;-)

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Originally Posted by gojete

A lot of people seem to be plundering my farms lately, and it makes me real mad, i trying to fund some dragons here, and everyone seems to going farm after farm right when they come oop, which is not cool.

If i catch you hitting my farms , ill be forced to use my 37.5 reduced attack speed and wave you myself to misery . Watch out .

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Did no one else catch the fact gojete admitted to running multi's? He's stated before with his high homes strats he survives with no banks/farms/towers by doing lots of plunders. Now we know how he finds these plunders so reliably.

High homes rule, and barren lands too, barren lands strategies for the ghetto are great. im doing it right now, and its awesome

there is a barren land strat? haha we fed the troll well.

There used to be a barren lands strat, back with land based gains and when attacks took barren acres first.

Thus proving my point that you can do anything in the ghetto.

I use it to lower my nwpa when needed

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Originally Posted by Palem

There used to be a barren lands strat, back with land based gains and when attacks took barren acres first.

Thus proving my point that you can do anything in the ghetto.

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those were the days when i used to play! what age was that around?

Why arent people doing the math properly? That shouldnt be all to hard, would it?

What are people counting in here? 1k acres, 16 jobs per "normal" built acre, a BE of 75% (thus half the jobs filled), a wpa of 1 and a tpa of 2?

Then, given some scenarios the numbers would start to look kinda funny...

[This was supposed to be a link but someone made it impossible for ppl with few posts to post links so you will have to www yourself]

.home.no/mordrek/homes_efficiency_mordrek.xlsx

That's my very simple excel-file covering the problem... its simple mostly because I only count on a strat where you run 80% either homes, tgs or forts (for easy number crunching) and the remaining acres split up between necessary farms and banks... I know that you would like to have a % of guilds and/or towers as well as some other stuff just like someone would be prepared to devote his or her army to plunders but I won't work the model that much.

Its based on a halfer, but the numbers are pretty simple to change so... anyway... Back to the topic...

Yes, you can get pretty impressive numbers with 80% homes. In theory you could run 75% be, 1 wpa, 2 tpa, 80 dpa and still be able to muster 74k mod op at 1k acres... however, that wound never be possible in reality because you would then have a negative net income of 6,3k gold per hour...

Given 8% pop sci, 15% income sci, 5% be sci and 50% food sci (yes, I know, its not the best sci but come on, how in the world would you afford more?) you would need to lower your amount of homes to 71% to be able to break even... and that still forces you to get income via plunders for your growth/rebuild etc and even at that rate your growth would be hampered by the inability to maintain your sci levels.

This is w/o any guilds or towers... with 5% guilds the numbers just crash completly...

So purely by numbers I doubt that anyone can run a 80% homes strat efficiently... or even a 50% homes strategy... it just doesnt work... however (and there is always this however) you could probably run a 50% homes strat with kinda nice numbers if you instead of aiming at having the highest possible DR for a set amount of BE instead went for a higher DR than normal but still not maxed...

Then you would be able to have somewhat 75:ish OPA while keeping 50 dpa (halfers, no race bonus included thou)... the drawback from this is, as mentioned earlier, that you still bloat your nw something horrible for only a small gain...

At 90% BE you would have 64k mod off at a nw price of 95k. Meanwhile, the 75% BE halfer with 10% homes would muster almost 60k mod off with horses (althought the excel sheet is not working here since the required acerage for stables is not deducted from banks) at a nw price of 88k.

Funny thing here is that you would still have the same income with the 75% BE halfer with 10% homes (~21k, make it ~18k when calculating with horses) than you would with the 90% be 50% homes halfer...

Now, why would you want to run that high %-age of homes? Look at the numbers... you would get 5,5k more army, which is a whopping 5,5 extra military per acre... but given the loss in forts and tgs that extra military loses much of its value... especially when you have space with a lot more in the other build... and got the flexibility to do other things...

Not to mention, what many others already said, that you are a better target during times of war.

dont post the numbers.. he will just dispute them. The reality is that is I ever did run across his province, I could literally land lust him to death, kidnap his peasants with impunity, and remove his military without him being able to do more than conquest me. For that matter almost anyone could.

Well, it was a response to the notion that "high homes is good"-speach :P but yeah, they will probably contest their accuracy just because...

And the truth is that would I find his prov then I probably would have the ability to smack him hard... however, high homes as in 20-25% could probably be a viable solution IF its implemented well.

Anyway, I've done some more work on the model adding nw values and it seems... surprisingly.... that a 1k acres 80% homes halfer can actually muster the same amount off attack power as an 1.5k 0% homes halfer... at the same nw...

Now, to make the two provinces comparable I'd have to calculate what you actually get for the same nw and its stunningly how bad the 80% homes strat actually is... you get the same amount of off and def per nw... that much I can agree upon... but then?

Econ in ruins, limited growth potential and stunningly easy to wound :P

I like your numbers, i did run a lot of numbers prior to testing homes 2 ages ago .

But its not my thing, i did study mechatronic engineering for a while back in the days.

But im a man of action , i have nothing agains ppl running numbers in excel, but again, i am a man of action. I play the game .

I tested 100% homes and got 250 opa with an avian. I test in game, cant really bother using a calculater, I just train the army and use angel to format with 4 generals and thats it.

BTW the nwpa is not as bad as your calculations show, everyone here says that the networth is boosted way too high, again because they test in the calculator and sims and excel and whatever. I tested all of this in the game, I wouldnt be saying that homes work if it wasnt true . And its not because "anything " works in the ghetto either.

Haters gonna hate

No one pays attention. Gojete's strats work because he runs a series of multi-account farms to plunder. He doesn't need economy or towers or food or anything a normal province would. The fact that you admitted a 1k prov could theoretically have the same offensive power as a 1.5k acre one with high homes is all the justification he needs to continue his delusions.

Lol and now I multi and create farms lololol
I grew my halfling to 1900 acres with high homes last age, and i ran an orc that sat his province, that I grew from 800 to 2000 acres with high homes too. At those sizes theres not so much plunder.
And runes I have always been able to steal them with no proble, why would i need towers when I steal instead

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Originally Posted by Bashar

The fact that you admitted a 1k prov could theoretically have the same offensive power as a 1.5k acre one with high homes is all the justification he needs to continue his delusions.

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The thing is, if you are a GREAT plunderer then you could probably make this work up to a point and that point is into a war with an enemy who uses his income.

However, Gojete's prov at 1k acres will still maintain the same DPA as the 50% larger prov... with about the same nw but with a much worse econ. Thus the high homes strategy is a bad strategy because your gain per nw is marginal whilst the drawbacks per nw are massive.

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Originally Posted by gojete

At those sizes theres not so much plunder.

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Just another problem. The strategy isn't viable once the access to good plunders goes down to a minimum...

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Originally Posted by gojete

And runes I have always been able to steal them with no proble, why would i need towers when I steal instead

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Stealing gold, runes, food, whatever comes with 2 parts - cost of new thieves (especially since you cant have that many TDs) and a pop cost to have a decent amount of thieves. If you are so great as a thief so that you can maintain your whole econ with a minimum of thieves then that still doesn't say that an extremly high amount of homes (say ovr 30%) is a good strat since there are so many other ways which are far better.

Ps. If I had the option to run a second prov just for fun then I'd try out a high homes strat in a ghetto just to see how it works when set to the test.

homes are great its impossible to be 2k at oop without them. :D

Well mordrek ive tried them myself thats why i know they work , i understand the basis of your failed assumptions though, it makes a lot of sense what you say, unfortunately the assumptions are not right.

Then again, if homes are not properly used problems like the ones you pose might happen.
Right now im testing a strat with 10% homes only to see whats up. so far it doesnt work for me . I like high homes better still, but we will see

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Originally Posted by gojete

Right now im testing a strat with 10% homes only to see whats up. so far it doesnt work for me . I like high homes better still, but we will see

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Please post your build-strat (based on 10% homes) then -- I guess alot of people would be curious to review it....

i dont get high homes D:
i am running 10% homes and my off,defence,tpa
is the same as guy thats running 35% homes whats worst is because he has homes he has less of other modifier buildings ==
sure his high homes gives him abit more off specs than me
actually he has about 3k more soldiers than me but it doesnt seem to do much different than me because i have other mod buildings the high homes just seem to be taking up space ==. if you are talking bout be we have about the same BE because he is drafting more but his offence is the same as mine and i have a smaller army
and the homes seem to be real bad. Cause my kd is made out of undeads, We raze each other to maintain our size while keeping elites numbers up.
1 raze takes out like 320+ acres and the guy with high home got raze he was like 10k extra overpop and after the raze his army started running away..

why the **** did i spend all that time reading this thread :(

just one thing id like to add

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you could have played the game for 15 years for all i care, ive won tournaments in warfcraft, age of empires, starcraft , command and conquer and other highly competitive games.
You want to impress me with your education , your merits, your calculations, this game is for fun fools, if you want competition play a real game , this is for fun.

I test my strategies against kds that are similar than mine, i like playin in the ghetto . I rather have the possibility to war against 300 kds than the same 5 kds you all war every age, 10 years warrying the same damn people, no wonder why you are all bitter and grumpy.

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ok dude - i will play you at every single one of those games - when i win them all i expect you to yield and sto posting crap.

you can find me on irc