There used to be a barren lands strat, back with land based gains and when attacks took barren acres first.
Thus proving my point that you can do anything in the ghetto.
There used to be a barren lands strat, back with land based gains and when attacks took barren acres first.
Thus proving my point that you can do anything in the ghetto.
I use it to lower my nwpa when needed
- Get the best out of your gameplay, go 45% homes minimum .
-Successfully tested over 13 war wins in a row and many that number of non war conflicts .
7 out f 7 war wins age 50 guarantees.
High homes = good
those were the days when i used to play! what age was that around?Originally Posted by Palem
Why arent people doing the math properly? That shouldnt be all to hard, would it?
What are people counting in here? 1k acres, 16 jobs per "normal" built acre, a BE of 75% (thus half the jobs filled), a wpa of 1 and a tpa of 2?
Then, given some scenarios the numbers would start to look kinda funny...
[This was supposed to be a link but someone made it impossible for ppl with few posts to post links so you will have to www yourself]
.home.no/mordrek/homes_efficiency_mordrek.xlsx
That's my very simple excel-file covering the problem... its simple mostly because I only count on a strat where you run 80% either homes, tgs or forts (for easy number crunching) and the remaining acres split up between necessary farms and banks... I know that you would like to have a % of guilds and/or towers as well as some other stuff just like someone would be prepared to devote his or her army to plunders but I won't work the model that much.
Its based on a halfer, but the numbers are pretty simple to change so... anyway... Back to the topic...
Yes, you can get pretty impressive numbers with 80% homes. In theory you could run 75% be, 1 wpa, 2 tpa, 80 dpa and still be able to muster 74k mod op at 1k acres... however, that wound never be possible in reality because you would then have a negative net income of 6,3k gold per hour...
Given 8% pop sci, 15% income sci, 5% be sci and 50% food sci (yes, I know, its not the best sci but come on, how in the world would you afford more?) you would need to lower your amount of homes to 71% to be able to break even... and that still forces you to get income via plunders for your growth/rebuild etc and even at that rate your growth would be hampered by the inability to maintain your sci levels.
This is w/o any guilds or towers... with 5% guilds the numbers just crash completly...
So purely by numbers I doubt that anyone can run a 80% homes strat efficiently... or even a 50% homes strategy... it just doesnt work... however (and there is always this however) you could probably run a 50% homes strat with kinda nice numbers if you instead of aiming at having the highest possible DR for a set amount of BE instead went for a higher DR than normal but still not maxed...
Then you would be able to have somewhat 75:ish OPA while keeping 50 dpa (halfers, no race bonus included thou)... the drawback from this is, as mentioned earlier, that you still bloat your nw something horrible for only a small gain...
At 90% BE you would have 64k mod off at a nw price of 95k. Meanwhile, the 75% BE halfer with 10% homes would muster almost 60k mod off with horses (althought the excel sheet is not working here since the required acerage for stables is not deducted from banks) at a nw price of 88k.
Funny thing here is that you would still have the same income with the 75% BE halfer with 10% homes (~21k, make it ~18k when calculating with horses) than you would with the 90% be 50% homes halfer...
Now, why would you want to run that high %-age of homes? Look at the numbers... you would get 5,5k more army, which is a whopping 5,5 extra military per acre... but given the loss in forts and tgs that extra military loses much of its value... especially when you have space with a lot more in the other build... and got the flexibility to do other things...
Not to mention, what many others already said, that you are a better target during times of war.
dont post the numbers.. he will just dispute them. The reality is that is I ever did run across his province, I could literally land lust him to death, kidnap his peasants with impunity, and remove his military without him being able to do more than conquest me. For that matter almost anyone could.
Well, it was a response to the notion that "high homes is good"-speach :P but yeah, they will probably contest their accuracy just because...
And the truth is that would I find his prov then I probably would have the ability to smack him hard... however, high homes as in 20-25% could probably be a viable solution IF its implemented well.
Anyway, I've done some more work on the model adding nw values and it seems... surprisingly.... that a 1k acres 80% homes halfer can actually muster the same amount off attack power as an 1.5k 0% homes halfer... at the same nw...
Now, to make the two provinces comparable I'd have to calculate what you actually get for the same nw and its stunningly how bad the 80% homes strat actually is... you get the same amount of off and def per nw... that much I can agree upon... but then?
Econ in ruins, limited growth potential and stunningly easy to wound :P
Last edited by Mordrek; 13-08-2011 at 05:36.
I like your numbers, i did run a lot of numbers prior to testing homes 2 ages ago .
But its not my thing, i did study mechatronic engineering for a while back in the days.
But im a man of action , i have nothing agains ppl running numbers in excel, but again, i am a man of action. I play the game .
I tested 100% homes and got 250 opa with an avian. I test in game, cant really bother using a calculater, I just train the army and use angel to format with 4 generals and thats it.
BTW the nwpa is not as bad as your calculations show, everyone here says that the networth is boosted way too high, again because they test in the calculator and sims and excel and whatever. I tested all of this in the game, I wouldnt be saying that homes work if it wasnt true . And its not because "anything " works in the ghetto either.
Haters gonna hate
- Get the best out of your gameplay, go 45% homes minimum .
-Successfully tested over 13 war wins in a row and many that number of non war conflicts .
7 out f 7 war wins age 50 guarantees.
High homes = good
No one pays attention. Gojete's strats work because he runs a series of multi-account farms to plunder. He doesn't need economy or towers or food or anything a normal province would. The fact that you admitted a 1k prov could theoretically have the same offensive power as a 1.5k acre one with high homes is all the justification he needs to continue his delusions.
Lol and now I multi and create farms lololol
I grew my halfling to 1900 acres with high homes last age, and i ran an orc that sat his province, that I grew from 800 to 2000 acres with high homes too. At those sizes theres not so much plunder.
And runes I have always been able to steal them with no proble, why would i need towers when I steal instead
- Get the best out of your gameplay, go 45% homes minimum .
-Successfully tested over 13 war wins in a row and many that number of non war conflicts .
7 out f 7 war wins age 50 guarantees.
High homes = good
The thing is, if you are a GREAT plunderer then you could probably make this work up to a point and that point is into a war with an enemy who uses his income.
However, Gojete's prov at 1k acres will still maintain the same DPA as the 50% larger prov... with about the same nw but with a much worse econ. Thus the high homes strategy is a bad strategy because your gain per nw is marginal whilst the drawbacks per nw are massive.
Just another problem. The strategy isn't viable once the access to good plunders goes down to a minimum...
Stealing gold, runes, food, whatever comes with 2 parts - cost of new thieves (especially since you cant have that many TDs) and a pop cost to have a decent amount of thieves. If you are so great as a thief so that you can maintain your whole econ with a minimum of thieves then that still doesn't say that an extremly high amount of homes (say ovr 30%) is a good strat since there are so many other ways which are far better.
Ps. If I had the option to run a second prov just for fun then I'd try out a high homes strat in a ghetto just to see how it works when set to the test.
Last edited by Mordrek; 15-08-2011 at 16:05. Reason: Added quotes from Gojete
homes are great its impossible to be 2k at oop without them. :D
Well mordrek ive tried them myself thats why i know they work , i understand the basis of your failed assumptions though, it makes a lot of sense what you say, unfortunately the assumptions are not right.
Then again, if homes are not properly used problems like the ones you pose might happen.
Right now im testing a strat with 10% homes only to see whats up. so far it doesnt work for me . I like high homes better still, but we will see
- Get the best out of your gameplay, go 45% homes minimum .
-Successfully tested over 13 war wins in a row and many that number of non war conflicts .
7 out f 7 war wins age 50 guarantees.
High homes = good
Please post your build-strat (based on 10% homes) then -- I guess alot of people would be curious to review it....
i dont get high homes D:
i am running 10% homes and my off,defence,tpa
is the same as guy thats running 35% homes whats worst is because he has homes he has less of other modifier buildings ==
sure his high homes gives him abit more off specs than me
actually he has about 3k more soldiers than me but it doesnt seem to do much different than me because i have other mod buildings the high homes just seem to be taking up space ==. if you are talking bout be we have about the same BE because he is drafting more but his offence is the same as mine and i have a smaller army
and the homes seem to be real bad. Cause my kd is made out of undeads, We raze each other to maintain our size while keeping elites numbers up.
1 raze takes out like 320+ acres and the guy with high home got raze he was like 10k extra overpop and after the raze his army started running away..
why the **** did i spend all that time reading this thread :(
just one thing id like to add
ok dude - i will play you at every single one of those games - when i win them all i expect you to yield and sto posting crap.you could have played the game for 15 years for all i care, ive won tournaments in warfcraft, age of empires, starcraft , command and conquer and other highly competitive games.
You want to impress me with your education , your merits, your calculations, this game is for fun fools, if you want competition play a real game , this is for fun.
I test my strategies against kds that are similar than mine, i like playin in the ghetto . I rather have the possibility to war against 300 kds than the same 5 kds you all war every age, 10 years warrying the same damn people, no wonder why you are all bitter and grumpy.
you can find me on irc
The Elf Mystic
Flaming stupid people since 1999
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