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Hey all,
Could we perhaps get an intra-KD espionage tab? I'd love for that to be updated with all spells, but at least with those cast by a Paladin?
It's going to make coordinating stuff so much easier. Especially for those without as much activity or coordination.
Regards,
NighT
Yes please!
As a paladin have no idea who has what spell, and for what duration. I can imagine it being even more confusing with oops-ing?
I already had some browser time outs and I see my runes gone but don't know if it worked or not.
I'd love to see this happen. I think I've seen this suggested before, but this age it would be especially useful.
The devs might be hesitant to add an intra-KD espionage tab, since it would make things like MV'ing off MS much easier. But at the very least List the active support spells cast by the Paladin player
So much +1.
Any word from the Devs if this is a feature we can expect (some time soon?)? It's pretty much impossible to coordinate Paladin spell coverage, even on a kingdom that's reasonably active.
Very mcuh +2
here it is, bump!
Agreed. To counter the argument that it makes it too easy to MV KD mates, it should only show self spells, much like enemy-info page only shows combat spells on provinces.
I think it would be useful,but heres a tip to know if ones needed . Talk to your people before casting.Seems to work every time
As long as the intra kd espionage page is opt-in, not automatically updated but requires a province to push intel to it such a page is fine. But I object to any sort of mandatory automated intra-kd intel page. If you want that then there are 4rd party tools such as munk's, it's not something that should be added to the core game itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursuul
There exists this apparently revolutionary concept of talking to somebody, I suggest you try it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sopis
So many reasons why this is not a solution, the least of which are that players aren't always there to talk to ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
If they're not around to ask for help then it's clearly not important enough to warrant your effort ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
You must make lots of friends in your kingdom. You do realize proactive kingdoms cast things like Wrathful Smite when they see a chain starting on a province, whether the player is online or not, right? Perhaps Illuminate Shadows or Divine Shield when they get too fat and are likely thievery targets? My kingdom's success is always worth my effort and I'd love a tab where I and potential other paladins can see what's on a province and what a province might need. They don't need to ask for it to be something I need to give them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
I play in a kingdom that usually phones you awake within 5-10 minutes of a chain starting on your province so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
Plus I don't think we need to make it even harder to properly chain a province, it's already ridiculously hard to properly chain a province to the point where it looses it's off unless the controlling player is incompetent.
Well I'm glad you play in one of those rare kingdoms that still sets alarms and phones players. The game should not cater to you lovely 1%-ers.
And a support spell tab has absolutely nothing to do with properly chaining a target. It's about making intra-kingdom communication and coordination more manageable and less clunky. You can chain a target easily if they have WS on, the results on the target are the same with or without it.
@Elldallan,
Please realize that the top 5 kingdoms play like that, the other 95 kingdoms dont. So please stop thinking that the entire server is somehow elitist with superb communication.
I'm in a fairly decent kingdom myself, and even we have trouble coordinating all the self spells. It's a mess trying to coordinate who has what spell expiring when. Especially if people arent online at all times.
We understand that the top 5 kingdoms are able to coordinate this into perfection and have people online at all times a day and will call them awake whenever needed. I am, however, not suggesting this change for those few kingdoms.
Regards,
NighT
Sadly the more automated the game becomes the less reasons people even have to log in.
I'm well aware of that and I happen to agree with you, but you posted a question which I answered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
On the other hand I'm opposed to more intel integration into the game, I feel that leaveing that to 3rd party applications like munkbot is sufficient. If you want to be able to see some self-spells then the next age somebody is going to want to be able to see all spells, and then somebody is going to want access to all intra-kd intel etc.
In essence that's true, but in reality it's also something that makes chaining harder by providing that greater communication and coordination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
And with the recent nerf of chaining as a viable method I think that anything that makes chaining potentially even harder is a bad thing.
Monarchs everywhere would love this. It would save time and energy and prevent burn out.
It could update on log in, or via opt in send. Either way it is much needed.
I'm sure they would but I don't think the game needs to do more to encourage petty dictators, which a lot of those monarchs would turn into if they were given access to complete surveillance and thus I don't think it's a good direction for the game. Instead I think we should work to provide better third party integration options as they have been doing lately, third party options which I can turn off at my own leisure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
As long as the opt-in send is single use only, ie i actively needs to be pressed by the user every time then I have no real qualms about that other than that I think that this option already exists and is called munkbot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
I disagree its a team based strategy game. By saying you don't want to have an option for everyone in the kingdom to see what you're running, you are really saying you don't want to play as part of the team. Monarchs by and large are making the best team that they know how to make, and they are elected to do so by the at least half the kingdom. "Petty dictators" are not a thing unless its a ghetto kd, and even if it is, with an intra-kd espionage tab it will help organisation and strategy. In the end, should no game should be reliant on third-party tools to function at a higher level. I think actually, petty dictators should be encouraged. They are fledgling leaders, and if they've already gained the support of their kingdom in the form of the vote, shouldn't every method of organisation be made available for them? They may turn from being petty dictators into being decent enough leaders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
Munkbot is a great tool, however support for some of the basic tools inside the game would make organisation easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
I disagree, what I don't want is micromanagement, each player is and should be responsible from their own province and this power should not be moved towards monarch micromanaging everything by giving them access to accurate and instantaneous intel of their kd. There needs to be a trust from the monarch that each province of the kingdom is fighting towards the same goal, they shouldn't need or have access to absolute surveillance in order to run the kingdom. And no I don't agree that petty dictators should be encouraged, they are a scourge and a plague on their players, they don't need 100% access to every niggling detail of their kingdom. If you want that then mandate that everybody use some sort of third party tool, the game itself should not encourage such behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kido
If you cannot afford your players the trust to work their own province without absolute surveillance then we might as well be done with it and do away with the other 24 players completely and let every monarch run all 25 provinces directly by themselves, then you can have all the control you want.
Imho, perfect intel is trust. Also, bringing up one small and extreme example of a potential misuse doesn't negate the idea. Allowing other kd mates to check resources and return times, and etc. helps organisation and helps your prov survive. Someone can send you food if you're starving. Other similarly sized attackers can line up their attacks to return at the same tick as yours. Allowing other KD mates to learn from your experience in builds. Allowing other kd mates to match the amount of offense and effects you're receiving (like a gs building effect) helps cohesion. Allowing our new support class the ability to check what spells and effects are on your province would assist them in assisting you. I personally think individualism makes wars the game interesting, but i wouldn't say no to an extra organisational tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
What Elldallan wants to say is that backstabing, sabotaging and civil wars should be part of the game. As he said if he has to push a button(which means he will have the ability to change some intel manually and lie or purposefully delay update of his intel) then he will be fine with it :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kido
think it should be an opt out option now that I think about it. If someone wants to be a pain in the behind to their kingdom at the very least they should have to work for it :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Bo To
If they are still on the game friendly for new people ways then having everything ingame is the best way for new people. Game, Guide, a working chat and intel features.
Everyone here knows how hard it is and has always been to get new people to use outside stuff to play.Going back to when we used AvidGamers for sites, Angel for everything else and ICQ for communicating. Its always been the same.
If your going to make it friendly for new people to join ,learn and play then you have to have it ingame.
^This. Yes, third party apps are great, but you're far more likely to retain players the more convenient things are. I.e. everything in one place. For those who don't want the auto-update - make it optional with a button to manually update and/or make it a premium feature to get a bit of money flowing into the game as well. I'd be more than willing to pay a few $/age for integrated intel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
If it's completely voluntary and comes without any sort of expectations or obligations then yes. But if it's mandatory it's just another tool of oppression and should never be implemented in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kido
I consider it to be neither a small, nor an extreme example but rather systemic and pervasive like a cancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kido
Yes basically, although I've never been part of a kd civil war :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Bo To
No it definitely needs to be opt-in because the power scale should lie implicitly with the province and not with the kingdom. The province holder should be the absolute master of his demesne, it shouldn't be a power granted from the monarch to use a historical example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
And to be perfectly clear, I'm not really the querulous sort of player, I run munkbot and I keep my intel updated usually several times per day, and it's accurate(as opposed to intentionally faked). But I absolutely object to the notion that doing so shouldn't be my choice to make, that it's an option that could be forced through in-game integration. The choice should be mine and mine alone.
But the choice isnt yours, would people not object if you didnt run munkbot? ...Quote:
And to be perfectly clear, I'm not really the querulous sort of player, I run munkbot and I keep my intel updated usually several times per day, and it's accurate(as opposed to intentionally faked). But I absolutely object to the notion that doing so shouldn't be my choice to make, that it's an option that could be forced through in-game integration. The choice should be mine and mine alone
They probably would :P But it's still a voluntary choice because if I wanted to I could fake the intel I send or not send it at all etc. If it's integrated into the game I wouldn't have those options, unless those options where protected by requiring an active action every time you opt to share your intel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
And if you woulddnt send intel you would be told to fix munkbot hence not voluntary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
And if I refused to do that I'd be threatened with razes, but I can still refuse even then and be razed, hence voluntary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Just because my choice has consequences doesn't make it involuntary, in real life that would of course be the case because the equivalent "do X or die" has pretty dire consequences and thus cannot be claimed to be a meaningful choice, but do X or we destroy your 0 value electronic "goods" doesn't present any such disparity between the presented choices.
Robbing someone is voluntary you can still say no ..Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan