Having a discussion in kd about an all halfer KD. Is it possible?? How would you set it up in terms of personality?? Would you have to concede a couple spots for faerys or just run mystic halfers. Could they beat the tfc??
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Having a discussion in kd about an all halfer KD. Is it possible?? How would you set it up in terms of personality?? Would you have to concede a couple spots for faerys or just run mystic halfers. Could they beat the tfc??
just run mystic halfers
and yes they could beat tfc quite easily. faery sucks this age.
Very doable imo.
2 Mystics
5 Rogues
13 Merchants
All run 8 dspecs, 6 elites and 6 ospecs/a or better. Run a high pop strat (~20% homes) to maximize pop bonuses. Merchants pump banks for mass TOG in war and just spam dragons while chipping away slowly at exposed attackers. Gc and pop should allow for sufficient replacements to counter lack of hospitals. Rogues AW T/Ms down, taking down 1-2 mages per day, and everyone else spam NS/riots/kidnap or steal resources.
Will be difficult to pull off, but you should have dragon control. Will be very interesting no matter what.
A few things
1. There is no TFC. So if your kd exists, they beat TFC this age :p
2 In theory it would prolly be ok, but in reality it would be a massive failure. Mono-race setup is going to scare off anyone you're capable of beating with an inferior setup and any kingdom that's really attacker heavy and knows what they're doing is going to tear you to pieces in war. Going against an orc-core with no access to hospitals = nighty night
3. @diealready - Racial pop bonuses do not stack with Homes like you're thinking. Halfling homes provide 10 pezzies, not 11.
25 Halfling Rogues. Burn WT's and Prop your way to victory!
No need for Mystics and Meteors, why kill all that military that you should be stealing anyway.
All rogues.. I did this before with gnomes and it can be successful at warring. Live on your opponents resources and focus NS to build UB. You either have AW for mage control or set a small group aside to cycle through Sabotage Wiz on your threats
Sabotage wizards doesn't work, just make quick work of their WT's and then wizards. You may even be better off just using Propaganda to steal their wizards, lowering their WPA and increasing your defense at the same time. If you have bad RNG on wizard stealing, AW is a good alternate option, bad RNG wizard stealing usually means Thieves, Elites, and Specs though!Quote:
Originally Posted by natebane
Great Way not to win wars. Ask TFC.
And then, who wants to war you?
We talked about it too, but we decided against it. Do to the fact you can't force war. Which means agreed wars will be your only hope. How many people would agree to fight all halflings. Only kingdoms setup to beat you. You might get 3 wars all age and major down time in between will have people quit. Ask palem.
Why worry about war stance? War stance sucks.
And yeah, just pick Rogues. That way you can pick whatever prov you like as the superthieves (and can run all of them as superthief if you wish, or none of them), and live with the econ/military hit on the rest of your provs. Merchants would be better if you don't war often, but it's not like you're playing to win, you're playing for ****s and giggles.
You probably should pick 5-6 Mystics, mostly for nightmares. It is also a backup for Mystics getting massacred and whatnot, which the Halfers are prone to suffering.
The biggest problem is that many kingdoms will want to push you around, and it's really hard to retalwar. You should however have a really easy time pumping, and can adjust your strategy easily. If you have mostly attackers, your offspec aren't dying if they're camped at home.
Consider holding on to 1 soldier/acre for every province. That way, if you do get massacred or lose a lot of military on one prov, you have a soldier bomb ready for recovery. Since your army and thieves are cheap, and you have a setup that can plunder and steal, money shouldn't be a problem. The soldier/acre gives you some ability to adapt to circumstances, though it does mean sacrificing some power (usually sacrificing 1 raw tpa). Make sure you have 500 gc/acre ready on each province to train that as thieves or military should you need. If not trained, the soldiers can be pooled to create a soldier bomb, pretty useful if one province is heavily hit.
Doesn't matter either way, the difference is minor. The pop bonus is the equivalent of 25% homes. Main thing is to get as much pop/a to get high pez/a even after having abnormally high p/as. 20% homes with 12% pop sci gives you ~33 pop/a. Keeping 9 pez/a gives you 24 pop/a left to play around. 8 dspecs, 6 elites, 6 ospecs, 12 horses/a (steal if you don't want stables), 1 wpa and 3 tpa. That should give you about 89 mOPA @135% OME and 84 mDPA with elites in, or 48 mDPA @150% DME, and 1.8 mwpa and 8.1 mtpa @80% magic/thief sci. Stats are not that great in each area, but overall they are pretty decent while keeping high pez/a for TOG. With that many merchants they should not be all disabled and at least half should be spamming out a good amount of gc. High pez/a also means good draft rates too, so plenty of sols to go around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Couldn't you just feed off the other kingdom until they either roll over or max meter for auto-war? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
All halfing wont work, its to hard to run a kd with zero hosptials.
I tried to suggested a halfering attacker core kd though. My suggestion was somthing like 2 elf mystics for MV duty, and 3 feary mystics for NM duty. Then run 20 halfering war heros.
Start them off early age as pure attacker since they'll have the same offense/nw of an Orc/undead. Their build early age would be something like 3 ppa, 1 tpa/wpa 8 dspecs and rest offspecs. As they hit they convert offespecs into leets and become more and more tanky right up untill they are all unbreakable and you win...my math said early age 90 opa 35 dpa on day 2 40 opa 70 dpa just via converts (no training)..if done right it could really take off.
Late age with double honor bonus and ingoring dragons you can run them a bit more a/t/m since a count halfer would have ALOT more offense than an orc or ANY avain yet also have insane tpa/wpa mods and could easily ns down the enemy core. Given those feary nm's and double honor u could setup the whole kd to do nm wave 1 tap raze->remove wt..whole kd NS...chain. Even day 2 u'd drop people almost insantly.
I am not seeing how this is a good thing. Your attackers drop from 5 offense to 4 offense in addition to troops lost in combat. Brutes cost the same as strongarms so you could train replacements into either. In the early war you can use the elites as soon as the enemy commits to chaining someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
I want in!
Halfer makes a great thief and a good attacker. MS coverage might be a problem, but maybe your wars are smash and grab anyway since you can't fix the troop losses, so you could just skip the MS entirely.
The problem, as noted, is that getting the players requires a ton of work, and then getting a high-functioning team out of that is really hard, and everyone knows what you are and how you work so they prep for you.
*If* you have an existing kingdom core that will all go for the idea, now the main chemistry is right and you just have to recruit up to 22, that isn't too bad. Still gonna lose a lot, but meh, should be funny and fun.
I'd play faery, halfer, human, dwarf, UD - in that order of preference for a mono race kingdom. (Faery would be a wreck this age though, not like prior ages at all.) Avian is too meh other than speed which I can't do, I hate sci penalty, and elf just sucks.
if u dont get it i shouldnt share ;)...gets moar wars if i try to run it in the future :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by pathetic sheep
First that 8 dspecs...would probubly be more like 4 leets 4 dspecs so i have the flexibility to suicide a bit harder than the standard 8 dspec/acre if im like 5-10k offense short of a triple/quad.
Secondly and im not going to explain WHY this is important only note that the nw/point on a off spec is 1 point of offense for 1 nw. The NW on a leet is 1.31 nw for point point of offense. Implications arise in sustaining NW, chaining, Max off/nw....
Third conceptually what im having you do is run offspecs as offense so you have as much offense as possible. You ALWAYS want as much offense as you can when a war starts. BUT as wars progress what becomes more important is who can pack on more def and build unbreakable, secure econ. So a FREE way to transition my offense into def is having my offspecs convert to leets. This means as the war progresses and my nw stays high, my defense is rising FOR FREE. I dont have to have any econ, peasents, credits or solds i just natrually train def via conversions. Theoretically, sure if i wanted to boost my def i could do that by training dspecs using credits. However by converting im geting FREE def and can always take the small hit to use leets as offense as needed(not as effienct but how many people would really expect this to work anyway). Similarlly i'll still use my credits/gold to just train offspecs and can do things like attack with 90% off specs 10% leets where boom i just trained my def...instead of needing to "wait" for my def to come in.
Don't knock it til you try it.. takes a certain kd dynamic to do it though
Halflings have no hospitals. So they would burn there army out against any real attackers out side of war. Halflings can't trade punches with avians, orcs or undead. Especially seeing most are clerics this age.Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB
that's why you go rogue. don't try to be a straight-on attacker, that's the silly way.
merch is viable too, kidnap and steal off of other attackers to supplement your income boosts and keep drafting solds, use your bonus creds to make up for your losses. other merchants can do something similar but better though, whereas a bunch of rogues basically requires halfer.
cleric would correct your losses relative to attackers with actually good personalities. you're left with a gimped attacker without the bonuses or spellbook of other races, but can turtle better. it's probably the only race that should play cleric this age, but it doesn't have much of a point... merch/wh/sage are all better for the kind of strategies a halfling attacker core would want to use. oh, and cleric gives you pitfalls, which you would really want. i'd still only run a few clerics, just so i'll have a pf caster in hostile. in war it's not really important, because you're using prop/ns and overpop to kill defense.
it wouldn't be the best setup and there are ways to mess with a kingdom that can't reduce losses. just exchanging hits 1vs1 though, that's not a big deal (as far as combat losses). it's more that gangbangs and vultures hurt way more, and your primary offensive unit can't defend which has unfortunate implications. the bigger problem is that halfers don't get the useful offensive bonuses other races have, and their army is iffy with or without the hospitals penalty.
hospitals are overrated anyway. if i were playing half/rogue core, i wouldn't always build them... halfer has better building options in most cases.
so...
6 halfer/mystic (a/t/m defensive)
3 halfer/cleric (heavy a or a/m, you can get the thief part as war progresses)
16 halfer/rogue (a/t, set as many as you'd like to superthief based on who you're fighting - you'd normally have around 3 superthieves, but they won't always be the same 3 provs)
is how i'd go about a full halfer kingdom. merch would be nice, but you can stock and steal enough gc with proper planning, and your t/m are already tough to riot.
All I am saying is you will end up like TFC. Little to no war and not able to force war. Now if you wanted to run normal and grow. Might be a good setup to do that. Because no one is going to wave into you. My kingdom is a warring kingdom and a all halfling kingdom wouldn't get us enough wars.
No hospitals is horrible when scaled. Absolutely awful. Same thing with ospecs as offense - trading hits and getting chained = losing elites and leaving ospecs only. Alternatively, turtle = eat Ms. Half/WH sounds interesting
Offensive spec is 4 points networth and 5 points offense. 0.8/1.31 = 0.61. Almost a 40% drop. With horses 6 offense, 4.6 networth goes to 5 offense, 5.85 net. I do not think it is a deal breaker. War heroes could compensate by training offensive specs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
All you need to do is get 20 attacker war heroes to count.
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php?title=Networth
I think your unbreakable idea will lead to a large gap in networth that will be hard to fix. Will also make it harder to capture the honor you are counting on.Quote:
Offense specialist Offense Points * 0.8
Sustained offense prevents opponents from becoming unbreakable. It also allows much faster chains. It prevents them from securing economy.