What's really wrong with Utopia

[KuhaN]

And ill tell u y ppl quit imo.

1.) Mindlessly warring
This is hands down the biggest problem in the game today. I played in a "casual" warring kingdom for two rounds, and we literally were cycling players roundlong. 2 rounds later (i still idle in their channel) they have a completely different kingdom from when i last played in it. What does this mean? Mindlessly warring gets boring fast and causes players to quit, and no im not talking about leaving and joining a new kd, but quitting the game altogether. But this isn't completely there fault, which leads me to #2

2.) Paradise.
Get rid of this spell. Why would a mid level kd ever dice if they knew they were just going to get farmed later on in the round? It's ok for a top kd to bottomfeed into kingdoms, completely seperating the top from the bottom is not good tho. Getting owned by top kds is not what makes people quit, for example, if we look at all the ghetto cows that got farmed this round (myself included), they're not quitting because of it. Csarmi said he was quitting because of lame sh*t, but my bet is he'll be back after a round off. Why? Because it was a fun ride (even if it had a bad ending). People don't quit because they get owned or get lamed or wtv (has simians ever quit?), at worst they join a better kd, or they take a round off. People quit because they get bored. What's boring? Turning the game into an "ez" routine, which would be warring mid sized kds every round with no real goal in the end. (WWs is not a real goal; it is very easy to whore). In my experience, this causes people to quit. The gap between a #4 and #5 kd should never be 100k acres. When the next kd above you is 50 or 100k acres bigger, there is really nothing left for you to do but to mindlessly war. Look at Dreamworks, they were 5/5 one round, but the next kd above them was like 100k acres bigger, so what happened? They disbanded 2 rounds later.

The top 10 land charts should not look like this:

1. 200k acres
2. 199k acres.
3. 198k acres
4. 140k acres
5. 120k acres
6. 80k acres
7. 50k acres
Etc etc

But rather this is what we should be aiming for:

1. 140k
2. 138k
3. 136k
4. 135k
5. 134k
6. 133k
7. 132k
8. 131k
9. 130k
10. 129k

Lastly, the explore formula is broken. Some top kds don't even need to dice nemore as they just farm lone explorers in kingdoms. Farming these lone players is pretty much the same as dicing, no, actually it is better. Also get rid of the option to gain honor/acres at war end.

There, now stop derailing fun threads with the same bs talk.

[csarmi]

I vote Kuhan :)

[NoseBlood]

get rid of attacking aswell, thats pretty boring

[gergnub]

army in/army out, boring and time consuming ****. remove pls. but keep dice.

[Palem]

#1. It doesn't matter what you put after "mindlessly", you'll still be correct. Doing anything mindlessly in this game is bad. That said, there's nothing wrong with whoring, or warring, or solo'ing, or whatever. All can be fun.

#2. Your argument doesn't really make sense. With paradise, nubs get farmed out later. Without paradise nubs get farmed out sooner. It really doesn't make a difference. If people aren't being challenged, then it's their fault, because there's plenty of challenging stuff to do. I whored (...sorta lol) for the first time last age and I found it to be quite fun. I know for a fact that the majority of the server has never tried whoring a single age of their whole career, yet they want to claim that there's nothing to do.

#3. Eh, at least they're working on it...



IMO, the biggest problem with utopia isn't a lack of competition, it's the lack of players willing to challenge themselves and face a worthy adversary. Ask kds that actually do challenge themselves. They're still having fun.

[TheRock]

They made paradise suck for one round a few years ago.

The top kingdoms owned everyone else so hard that the players BEGGED for it to be put back.

Separation is a good thing.

[Topsy]

And ill tell u y ppl quit imo.

1.) Mindlessly warring
This is hands down the biggest problem in the game today. I played in a "casual" warring kingdom for two rounds, and we literally were cycling players roundlong. 2 rounds later (i still idle in their channel) they have a completely different kingdom from when i last played in it. What does this mean? Mindlessly warring gets boring fast and causes players to quit, and no im not talking about leaving and joining a new kd, but quitting the game altogether. But this isn't completely there fault, which leads me to #2

I recruited for a warring kd for a few ages, and while there was decent turnover(4-5 an age) it was almost never because they were bored. It was because of a change that made it so they couldn't be as active as they wanted to be in order to play well.

And ill tell u y ppl quit imo.

1.) Mindlessly warring
This is hands down the biggest problem in the game today. I played in a "casual" warring kingdom for two rounds, and we literally were cycling players roundlong. 2 rounds later (i still idle in their channel) they have a completely different kingdom from when i last played in it. What does this mean? Mindlessly warring gets boring fast and causes players to quit, and no im not talking about leaving and joining a new kd, but quitting the game altogether. But this isn't completely there fault, which leads me to #2

2.) Paradise.
But rather this is what we should be aiming for:

1. 140k
2. 138k
3. 136k
4. 135k
5. 134k
6. 133k
7. 132k
8. 131k
9. 130k
10. 129k

.

If you had that, the whole round would be completely useless. Whoever managed to convince the worst of those 10 to war them would win the age every time. The game should require beating the best, not beating the worst. With wars and different levels of whoring skills the only way you could end up with a spread like that anywase is if noone whored or warred and only diced, but some explored differently.

and then

And ill tell u y ppl quit imo.

Look at Dreamworks, they were 5/5 one round, but the next kd above them was like 100k acres bigger, so what happened? They disbanded 2 rounds later. .

This was because their leaders left because this game requires too much of a time/availability commitment, same as why players leave at all levels.

Finally, I've seen loads of kid and kd's ragequit after getting owned.

[KuhaN]

They made paradise suck for one round a few years ago.

The top kingdoms owned everyone else so hard that the players BEGGED for it to be put back.

Separation is a good thing.

I bet those players that begged for it to be put back aren't playing utopia nemore so their opinion doesn't matter. The problem with this game is bad players don't really lose, so what's so hardcore about Utopia?

Only players that keep playing over and over are in top kds (they may take a break or cycle between kds tho), or leaders in other kingdoms. Everybody else quits fast.

[Syntico]

Repeatedly winning gets rather tiresome.

[KuhaN]

If you had that, the whole round would be completely useless. Whoever managed to convince the worst of those 10 to war them would win the age every time. The game should require beating the best, but beating the worst. With wars and different levels of whoring skills the only way you could end up with a spread like that anywase is if noone whored or warred and only diced, but some explored differently.

You make a valid point on #2. I was exaggerating a bit tho. I disagree with your other points.

[jdorje]

Without paradise, good kingdoms could not run t/ms. Faeries would be only for ghettos, since their only way to grow is via paradise or exploration and exploration will not fund more than about 2 t/ms.

The problem is not paradise however. One age paradise was cut in half, and this age it's almost irrelevant due to the excess of explorer provinces. This just leads to the same growth-and-cf mechanics but with randoming as the means of growth.

Part of the problem is too much separation, or too few good kingdoms. The top gets separation - partly because they are good, but partly just because most kingdoms try not to grow - and that leads to a few kingdoms pulling away while the rest sit in a pack. It's very hard to grow in the pack, since growth via war is typically minimal (especially when you pick honor as your win bonus all the time) and you can't dice or whore when surrounded by a bunch of warring kingdoms. Note that ceasefires are not the problem here - generally you need ceasefires to get the separation, but if one kingdom refuses to ceasefire they just won't get separation so they'll be part of the pack instead of part of the leaders. Sanc is an exception this age because our high honor lets us whore effectively and stay scary-looking without all the ceasefires (and now, of course, we also have separation).

I do fully agree that the explore formula is broken. The devs have been trying each age to "fix exploration" to "remove cowing" but since they completely fail to understand the relationship between exploration and cowing each change just makes things worse. When they doubled explore costs cowing became even stronger, since only cows could explore. Now that exploring is free up to 8-12k and impossible beyond that, only ghetto provinces cow and they all, inevitably, get farmed by top kingdoms. I have previously and repeatedly suggested a linear explore cost (where costs are directly proportional to your acres + explored/2) and a larger pool, which would "solve the cowing problem" very effectively. Even that ignores the real issue, which isn't cowing but rather the unstoppability of high-econ unbreakables in any fight (just one such province is enough to win any war).

I also strongly agree that you should not have the "option" of acres versus honor. This just leads to large low-honor kingdoms and small high-honor kingdoms and the two always try to avoid each other. Winning should give 10% honor and some mandatory acres bonus.

[Igor444]

But rather this is what we should be aiming for:

1. 140k
2. 138k
3. 136k
4. 135k
5. 134k
6. 133k
7. 132k
8. 131k
9. 130k
10. 129k

If you end the Age at YR7-8 you may achieve this.
Paradise is not the problem, as pointed out earlier it helps SKD's get out of range of ghettos.

Finally, I've seen loads of kid and kd's ragequit after getting owned.

This is just as frustrating for the monarchs of those kingdoms, and happens frequently
especially when ghettos get waved by kingdoms who KNOW that they are feeding.

[tetley]

Nub question but what is the exact meaning of whoring? like... growing by randoming and people are too scared to retal?

[TheRock]

I bet those players that begged for it to be put back aren't playing utopia nemore so their opinion doesn't matter. The problem with this game is bad players don't really lose, so what's so hardcore about Utopia?

This is a completely made-up statement that is, at best, a guess. How can I argue with it?

[LightNing]

Whats really wrong with utopia is Kuhan and his mindless thumbs upping all the time.