Fratzia vs ED

[I_am_Spartacus]

Third war in a row for ED for abusing wars trading cow acres for core acres, they amazingly lost vs Pew Pew with avian 9k acres provs and a cow, either total incompetence by Parth or a rigged war win as payment for having somewhere to run.

I hear Parth was voted best player or something like that in 2005 or 2006 which makes me believe the latter. This war more blatant then the other times for sure. Explore so you can farm out and acres exchange to Pyro's top provs. I agree the ED cow needs to be bounced down and razed, this will solve all of this mess.

Each kingdom has his own choices last age we hit into Strippers war, which I thought Pew deserved it rather then them (some crappy ally they were). This age AMA could have done it another 2 times to ED but didn't. Good to see someone hit them, although if Fratzia was serious about policing the evils of the server all of those hits would have been razes, not TM's.

The ED cow was 1 wave away from being cqed by the 3 pew faeries and the ED core was crippled due to poor activity and a dwindled council/leadership.

[Soul_Hunter]

All age I hear how AMA should let kds play how they like and stop whining. My advice for these kds is to stop whining and remember that what goes around comes around. You made a choice that is not against the written rules now you get into a situation you don't like that is again not against the rules.

[Proteus]

Crazy_Pete I think the being voted best monarch thing was a joke...just look at the horrible n00b decisions being made by ED...the only reason they are still in the T10 is because they have abused game mechanics via arranged wars to run from better opponents. The norm is if you cant handle a fight give up acres for a CF...you try to run via arranges wars and exploring your entire kd with BS like this, you get punished. Anyone with a half of brain would realize this and just do diplo + give up some acres for a CF...but what can i say parth sucks, his play shows it.

[silverfox]

Yes i agree hit in war is very bad and its need to be avoid but there is exceptions and every kd make his personal choice for hit or not. Last age and this age some kds bring insane lame play and put you in really hard choice.

We didn't hit Ed in his war 1 and 2 with pew pew. Result is they grow his cow over 5-6k acres. How its fair to us? Its make very hard to down it after ED run in 2 arranged wars. There wont be any chance for ED prevent his cow going down if they didunt run in 2 wars. So We hold till war end but don't worked for us.

Fake wars is forbidden now. You are expect People to play moral and don't hit you in war when you don't play moral and run in "legit war". This is risk move, some time can work some time wont.
Yes i care about fair play and its why this piss me off so much. If KDs like ED and Pew Pew learn to play proper there wont be this ****s.
Trade land for CF before go next active relation.

Why the hell should the game be "fair" to you? Your logic is that unless AMA aren't the ones gaining and other people are losing then it's not fair, pull your head out your ass cause the game doesn't revolve around you.

People like you continue the tradition of making top gaming boring as f**k, you CF everyone for when it suits you and think you can navigate your way to #1 by being more pumped than people you can jump, yet the second you don't get to farm someone out you start crying your eyes out about people running from you and being lame. News flash the whole game play at the top is lame.

I wasn't aware that you personally wrote the code of conduct for top KD ethics and play styles to be able to dictate who should and shouldn't have to fight certain people.

[Elldallan]

To sum it up: ED sucks

It's a shame a kingdom I used to like (original ED) came back to Utopia and act like this :(

edit: this is my personal view and got nothing to do with my kingdom

The original ED, oh you mean the one that sent all 25 provinces into vacation mode and locked another kd in an unwinnable war, a move for which they got deleted. That the ED you had in mind?

Why the hell should the game be "fair" to you? Your logic is that unless AMA aren't the ones gaining and other people are losing then it's not fair, pull your head out your ass cause the game doesn't revolve around you.

Just a curious question then, why does anybody have to be fair to ED? Why wouldn't someone just take what they want from ED? Oh thats right, someone did and you're complaining that they're being unfair to ED. Oh well would you look at that, you sound just like Elit, you're just using a different kd name...

[zmasternr1]

Rofl don't even compared ED and fratzia(the most notorious cheating kd on the server). Deleted I dunno how many times over the ages for extensive cheating.
A kd full of roros, what can one expect.

[Elit]

Why the hell should the game be "fair" to you? Your logic is that unless AMA aren't the ones gaining and other people are losing then it's not fair, pull your head out your ass cause the game doesn't revolve around you.

My logic is very simple. ED told us they are coming for us after 9 days war with pew pew. We had unfinished relation with pew pew. They had still dragon vs us and land we can take back from pew pew last wave. So ED block us from back our land from Pew Pew and same time put us in risk for get OOW dragon from Pew Pew. All this was hell lame and not moral. This forced us to explore in post war= loss pool+ loss acres from not hit Pew Pew. In short its cost us over 8k land.
AMA didn't run from ED, we stay oow and start fight back you with all disadvantages. Your bonce wave our cow, because you had x2 bigger core. Our cow left with 470k def. Both ED cows had close to 1 mill off and top 2 provinces in ED core had 420-430k off. Still AMA take all risk and declare WAR when cow was in DT range for both ED cows and we still manage to win this war. Before ED WD made max gains hits with his cow and take alone from 2 cow hits 3.5k acres. Still you cant protect this acres/cow in 1vs1 second round with us. Considering your lame vulture we decide to go round 2. Both kds was similar land size and both kds had 4 days for prepare. Stay and war us or trade land for CF was only correct and fair move from ED. You choice to CHEAT us x2 with Pew Pew and arrange wars so you can secure your cow acres. WE had full legit right to wave ED in both wars oow for back what is our. You cant use moral reasons when you don't play moral vs us. You guys cheat us bad and gained from it unfair advantage. Only reason we didn't hit you OOW is because i don't wanted ppl to say again we are greedy for acres when its about punish cheaters. Was very hard decision for us to not hit and give you CF.

You cant blame Fratzia for your bad play. You explored your acres before secure CF and they send notice. You did same to us, you offers us 48h notice and i proposed 72h till ED and BB was in progress ot set war but Part gone from irc for 30h+ (accident this was done from zauper in same time) and after it CR block BB with notice them and you refuse any kind CF with argument we have so many big provinces. Fratzia send you notice with same argument so eat your ****s and enjoy them.

[TheOne]

Alright, I guess I should make a post here.

To those that are bashing Pyromaniacs, I would want to iterate the point that we still have many goals to fight for this age. These goals are mainly ww & honour crown. I believe that many top kingdoms tend to put down the value of such crowns, and I can understand why this is so to a certain extent. However, I hope that there should be some recognition given to these crowns especially in Pyromaniacs case as we do not go around bashing kingdoms in the middle of the warring tier. We fight all our wars (except the 1st war) against 25 provinces kingdom and these wars usually take place at the top of the warring tier. I must say that we have been lucky on several occasions this age and are thankful to be leading both charts.

With that being said, it is clear to all that we decided to grow 35-40% of our size to find a war instead of land dropping 35-40% of our size. (Grew from 72k acres to 116k acres). Yes, we are thankful for the top kingdoms in allowing us to grow peacefully. However, we were never aiming to find a war against a top 5 kingdom, it would be suicidal. We wanted to fight a war against kingdoms in the lower tier of the top 10 (6-10th positions).

Given so, we knew our possible targets were mainly ED, CR (Havoc), Pewpew and Hoh (No insult to any of the kingdoms listed). Many have speculated that we would be fighting CR, but we had a CF between us till a certain date and it's obvious that their setup is much stronger than us if we were to fight on equal grounds. We are definitely up for this challenge, however a better opportunity arose when we saw ED got noticed by Fratz. ED acres spread was more optimal for Pyros to handle and they had just doubled up 4 of their hybrids. Both kingdoms were not pumped but we knew it would be our best bet for our next war win (no offence to ED).

This war would definitely be a race of whether they can kill our top 4 attackers + 2 goats (coined this term!) before we take down their 2 avians + fatty hybrids. Our core is also stronger than theirs and we can top feed them down + win core battle. However, I must admit that Nesta, myself & a couple other Pyros might have miscalculated our war chances as we underestimated several factors. Prior to the start of war, we realized several other things (cant say now) and saw that it would be much tougher. However, that does not mean Pyros is going to farm out or lose drastically, it only means that we will fight harder through better activity and strategy, and hopefully snatch the win.

We have fought many wars in the warring tier and won because of those 2 factors. ED and Pyros were looking for a good tough between both of us.

At no point in our calculations did we factor in Fratzia waving ED into our war. It would be unwise to do so, and hence ED & us came to agreement about them giving us button through fort2fort hits. This is a complete 100% real war and our news can attest to it. We are getting our guys to stay focus and have maximum activity too. Yes, there may be some concerns by the top kingdoms that Pyros will farm out (unintentionally) and cause ED to be much stronger at the end of the war. Yes, it's a valid concern but Pyro knew that this is a golden chance for us to snatch another war win. However, in many top wars (for example CR vs BB 2nd war), external spectators should also be concerned about how much 1 kingdom would gain much more acres and be much stronger. Thus, I feel that spectators should be concerned, but this is a possibility in all top wars.

I understand why Fratzia is feeling upset at what happened. They noticed ED, and ED didnt want to fight them and went to war with Pyro. They had prepared for this war for weeks and for this to happen, I'm sure they are a little mad. Whether it is right to wave into the war, I guess each has his own viewpoint on this. Some may feel it's fine, some may feel it's not.

I just feel that it's the current dynamics of the gameplay that is causing all these. There's no proper system on what to do when Kingdom A notice Kingdom B, and Kingdom B knows they will farm out to Kingdom A, hence what should Kingdom B do?

One more thing I would like to add, I believe all the top wars that happened this age had 1 thing in common. There's definitely QQing involved. When have we seen a top war without any QQ? It's just the game dynamics currently.

Lastly, I know the damage has already been done (as seen from the news feed pasted earlier), However I strongly appeal to Fratzia to stop waving into war and respect our war. Some members of Pyromaniacs are already feeling a little down knowing that if we do manage to win this war (it's still tight!), we might stand a good chance of ww/honour crown but the value of these crowns has already been tainted. Thank you.

If TLDR (wall of text)

cliffs:
- Pyros still has ww+honour crown to fight for.
- Pyros saw that ED was their best chance to snatch another ww this age, but knew it's going to be a tough war.
- Ed has their rationale for wanting to fight Pyro instead of Fratz
- Fratz has their rationale for what they are doing
- Something has to be done with all these notice deals.

1 line summary:
'Pyromaniacs, welcome to top kingdoms politics (cJ, 2013)'

-cJ

[Elit]

CJ, this is not WW chart, its land chart. People there is fight for land not for nonsense WW. I can understand your reasons but you need to understand other kds too. Your agree to war ED when you both had CF is cheating Fratzia. ED had no kd for run and they had only choice to face in 1vs1 hostile/war fratzia. Help ED get war with you put Fratzia in very bad situation and choice. They send notice and trained up for gain land not for get nonsense WW. Hit ED oow is result ppl blame them for it and its 50% Pyro fault because you helped ED for get this war.
Now you goign to get easy WW and its cheat all rest WW kds too. If you win WW chart like its its fake win. I wont have any respect for this kind win.

In short your n00bnes in top made you make very bad decision and now you are in loss/loss situation. If you want to keep it fair to ED and rest WW kds you need to gave ED CF and make MP min time war. Still better contact support about it or you can get deleted if you don't fight :)

[munk]

ED is lame to dodge fratzia, but fratzia is even lamer to hit into war. The end.

[Relic]

Stop signing notice deals if you cant handle with how things could work out for you, just becouse you notice someone doesnt mean they have to war you.

Its funny how elit is on this side of the argument, seening how he got screwed out of a crown by this exact same logic, when he tried to "dodge" havoc.

[Ezzerland]

Rofl don't even compared ED and fratzia(the most notorious cheating kd on the server). Deleted I dunno how many times over the ages for extensive cheating.
A kd full of roros, what can one expect.

Are you going to try and say ED was never fully deleted? And of course you would stoop to generalized racism and stereotyping for your argument rather than attempt to speak with any legitimate argument.

Parth: What you are missing here is that as the game shrinks the environment changes and becomes more and more lame. Similarly, as the alterations to war mechanics continue to grow and administration takes more of a hands-on stand, the environment changes and becomes more and more lame. No one in the top is going to care if your wars are real or not, or if any real agreement was made or not. What they care about is that they openly challenged you and you outplayed them. They view being outplayed as being ****-played because the game is too small, and too full of lame actions to be able to react accordingly.

Coss: No one in the top anymore legitimately cares about anything that involves 'working together'. They are too selfish and focused on their own kingdom to set utopia straight in a proper forward experience. Offering to let people raze acres from you for just claiming to agree to help make utopia a better place is naive, but I suspect you already know this and just don't think anyone will take the offer to freely raze land from you.

Fratzia: If someone in a ghetto grows a cow/killer and hits you, and me being a cow myself notices this and hits that person 2x before you get the chance to retal. Will you then proceed to GB/hit me in war under the claim that I farmed your acres? The unfortunate state of the game is that the above would be answered as yes by the likes of someone like Elit. He would claim it unfair that I took his acres because someone else was foolish enough to send out and I caught it. He would diplomatically want recourse. What you are doing to ED right now is no different. Arranging a war in order to dodge is an act of cowardice, as likely anyone except those that are being accused of it would say. Hitting into a war, however, is never forgivable or proper recourse. Utopia has limited the options kingdoms have to dodge/fight back, and as a result, kingdoms make decisions in their best interest. You hitting ED is not an exception; you hit them out of your best interest because you feel you can justify it. The reality is, you are becoming just as selfish and conceited as the rest of the top. Since you choose to play in the top, I can understand this decision. But be aware you are spreading the actions you claim to be fighting against.


All in all, it's pretty much all around fail. I've been repeating this for a few ages now, though, so I have no idea why I bother to waste my finger muscles once again here. None of you care about your actions or their long-term consequences anyway.

[Elit]

ED is lame to dodge fratzia, but fratzia is even lamer to hit into war. The end.

Its correct, both sides are lame. Its why this situationist is loss/loss/loss for all 3 involved kds.

[13nesta13]

CJ, this is not WW chart, its land chart. People there is fight for land not for nonsense WW. I can understand your reasons but you need to understand other kds too. Your agree to war ED when you both had CF is cheating Fratzia. ED had no kd for run and they had only choice to face in 1vs1 hostile/war fratzia. Help ED get war with you put Fratzia in very bad situation and choice. They send notice and trained up for gain land not for get nonsense WW. Hit ED oow is result ppl blame them for it and its 50% Pyro fault because you helped ED for get this war.
Now you goign to get easy WW and its cheat all rest WW kds too. If you win WW chart like its its fake win. I wont have any respect for this kind win.

In short your n00bnes in top made you make very bad decision and now you are in loss/loss situation. If you want to keep it fair to ED and rest WW kds you need to gave ED CF and make MP min time war. Still better contact support about it or you can get deleted if you don't fight :)

Elit, I actually told CJ not to post here but rather strictly the other thread because this is ED-Fratzia and not ED-Pyros, and has got nothing to do with us (although some of you may not see it that way).

I shall answer to your comments briefly and I shall not post here again. Will only do so in threads I have a strict business in.
#1 When two KDs have a deal (CF), isn't it legit to rediscuss a deal (shortening CF) provided both parties are willing? And correct me if I'm wrong, you gave me some good advice as to diplo at the top, and I really appreciate it. You told me, among other things, keep the details of the deals secret, it is almost tantamount to suicide if you divulge key information about your KD for eg. your pool, your deals with others.

I'm not trying to pinpoint anyone here for blame, and neither should you, Elit, at pointing we have 50% blame. Everything is considered discussing a deal. From discussing a Yr 9 CF to extending to Yr 10 CF (something I know CR proposed with Fratzia), that's re-dealing. From no deals at all, to getting a Yr 9 CF, that's re-dealing too (from no deal!). From no Yr 9 CF, to getting a Yr 9 CF with 72h notice, that's also re-dealing, which I have done with a few KDs. Similarly, from Yr 10 CF (with whatever amount of notice), shorten to Yr9 CF or even right this moment (with whatever amount of notice), it's a deal if both parties agree to it, no?

Next key thing here has been pointed out by so many people (neutral ones, and these are considered "fairer and more objective" opinions I believe, than those who actually have a stake in here directly ie Fratzia players), Notice means you should be ready and be on the lookout for your own backs, because hits might be coming in from the noticer, if not immediately upon CF expiry, then in the near future. It doesnt just mean war?

I'm sorry you feel we cheated the WW chart if we win this war. Thing is, we never ever expected/counted on Fratzia to try and win this. We wanted a fair fight. If you talk about hiding from wars, that's precisely the reason why we decided to grow rather than LD, because this stuff is even worse in the warring tier. They wont even feel the pain when you wave them. And they wont fight, period.

[FleD]

cry more!

i say again...when u ****play it means u can deal some consequences! seems u can't!

Call it ****play or not, being outplayed must feel ****ty. And ofcourse you think you can 'justify' our '****play' and hit up into our war.
Ezzerland above here says it all; thumbs up.