To the Game Admins

[Zombies are people too]

So if i am understanding you correctly, the gate to get into the top is to have the coordination to set up a cow, and with the current meta making that hard, KDs are forced to war. Now you believe that this leads to established KDs "farming" newer or more casual KDs for win bonuses.

In a reverse situation, wouldn't this be a learning curve for the so called mid tier to learn from more established KDs, even through loss, how to compete at the top, and forcing established KDs into the war meta instead of spending yr0-3 setting up a cow and subsequently making the game more competitive in general instead of their being tiers? I may be completely wrong, hence why I am asking.

-DM <3

[Pestilence]

So if i am understanding you correctly, the gate to get into the top is to have the coordination to set up a cow, and with the current meta making that hard, KDs are forced to war. Now you believe that this leads to established KDs "farming" newer or more casual KDs for win bonuses.

In a reverse situation, wouldn't this be a learning curve for the so called mid tier to learn from more established KDs, even through loss, how to compete at the top, and forcing established KDs into the war meta instead of spending yr0-3 setting up a cow and subsequently making the game more competitive in general instead of their being tiers? I may be completely wrong, hence why I am asking.

-DM <3

Getting tricked in to a war with a top KD and getting stomped isn't going to teach anyone to play at the top. Most KDs have "lost" before the age has even started due to their setup. They either don't have the ability or the desire to compete and that's fine.

[changeling]

One suggestion I have, and obviously this will need to be thought out a lot more is to allow KD's to recover losses based on pre-war totals. But not otherwise give a boost to growth.

Right now EOWCF tries to approximate that, give a bunch of training and econ bonuses so a KD can recover the losses from a war and prevent wars being disincentivised.

Why not get straight to the point. Game just keeps track of everyone's acres, wizards, thieves, military units at war start.

At end of the war, you get to keep what you gained (hence the winners get a bonus) but both sides get credits, or just straight up an option to get back everything they lost.

So you started war with 1k acres, 1000 each of wizards, thieves, off specs, elites, and def specs.

If you ended the war with 500 acres, 200 wizards, 750 thieves, 1500 of specs, 500 elites, and 2000 def specs, you get award "credits" or just automatically get given back, 500 acres, 800 wizards, 250 thieves, 0 off specs (because you gained), 500 elites, and o def specs (because you gained).

There, you get to keep any acres or additional units you managed to grab during a war, but no lengthy recovery time since KDs that lost get to recover their losses, but the "war bonus" doesn't give you anything above and beyond not warring, so no pressing need to war, yet no disincentive to warring.

[Zombies are people too]

So you feel that established KDs "trick" less experienced KDs into war for the bonus? Is it a matter of lack of respect for your opponent or bad sportsmanship?

To use my own example, our SoA war ended with a great 4 day discussion between KDs about what we could've done better on both sides, what worked, and how well it worked in comparison to other tactics. The sharing of experience is is a great way to shore up weaknesses and connect with other players, of course theirs a winner, but all players left with a good feeling; more about playing the game and having fun in a competitive atmosphere than trying to benefit off of one's back per say.

The information is there, let's say the more established KD won outright from the get go, wouldn't the losing KD at least be able to learn from their mistakes? Or try to imitate the strategies they lost too?


-DM <3

[Pestilence]

So you feel that established KDs "trick" less experienced KDs into war for the bonus? Is it a matter of lack of respect for your opponent or bad sportsmanship?

To use my own example, our SoA war ended with a great 4 day discussion between KDs about what we could've done better on both sides, what worked, and how well it worked in comparison to other tactics. The sharing of experience is is a great way to shore up weaknesses and connect with other players, of course theirs a winner, but all players left with a good feeling; more about playing the game and having fun in a competitive atmosphere than trying to benefit off of one's back per say.

The information is there, let's say the more established KD won outright from the get go, wouldn't the losing KD at least be able to learn from their mistakes? Or try to imitate the strategies they lost too?


-DM <3

It's a matter of you need to win wars to get ahead and that is the easiest way to do it. If you come OOP looking too strong most KDs won't want to war you and you end up stagnating while your competitors get a war win and jump ahead.

You can 100% share tactics and suggestions to improve, but there is more to being at the top than that. The ridiculous amounts of time that is needed to calculate and decide strategies, as well as manage all the provinces in the KD, is too much for a lot of players to bother with. Is your KD setting alarms and calling each other at 3am to wake up and attack before you get hit army home? That might not appeal to a large portion of the player base.

The war win bonus and province pool forces the top KDs to beat on the KDs that just want to have some fun since that is the way to get ahead now.

[Zombies are people too]

I guess I see what you're trying to say, that you believe the current meta is leeching off less established teams is the easy route to top ranks, whether or not it's good sportsmanlike conduct, so how would that be rectified? The old system wasn't truly working as intended either, so instead of us crying out, "The system is effed" should we and the developers be working together to answer the question "How can we make it more balanced and competitive?"

Goals differ from individual to individual; me personally, an age where we end 4/4 or 4/5 is a good age for me, acres etc are just resources to get me to the next war. Some players like growth though, and seeing their resource and size increase is important. Without a War win bonus, both myself and the example party lose out; myself as it takes me longer to get ready for another war, even if i am the victor, and the other party loses incentive to war altogether, as one of my teammates jokingly likes to classify them as "Muh acres!" players weighs the costs of war with just sitting in normal and growing and chooses the latter maybe? Shrug.

How do you please both parties without this said reward? Or how would this system be replaced with something that doesn't force such unsportmanlike conduct as tricking a less organized KD into conflict just to compete later on with a similarly experienced KD for ranking purposes?

-DM <3

[DjTeddySpin]

I guess I see what you're trying to say, that you believe the current meta is leeching off less established teams is the easy route to top ranks, whether or not it's good sportsmanlike conduct, so how would that be rectified? The old system wasn't truly working as intended either...

When you summarise them like that it loses all its context. It isn't leeching off less established teams, organised KDs intentionally start weaker so they are not far ahead of the pack, thus granting them the possibility to get into a war OOP with a nearby target. Early war = early war bonus. This isn't about picking on someone smaller, its about(chances of) picking on someone early.

It has nothing to do with sportsmanship. It works the same as ELO in other games. When there is a reset, the battles would often not be balanced at the start, until everyone settles into their own tier. The weaker competition losing is part of the natural process.

[Zombies are people too]

Sorry, I don't intend to lose the context so much as make heads or tails of it lol.

That is no different than in any other league if I'm reading it right, it is a natural process for weaker teams to end up at the bottom of the ranks, with stronger teams heading to the top. That said I don't understand how the meta is the problem, nor how those weaker teams cannot improve with drafting, cuts, and practice compared to an earlier comment about there always being the top and everyone else is irrelevant, but the current reward system is to blame for this taking longer, or involving unsportsmanlike conduct through trickery to speed up the process.

-DM <3

[DjTeddySpin]

... but the current reward system is to blame for this taking longer, or involving unsportsmanlike conduct through trickery to speed up the process.

-DM <3

Maybe you're going about the wrong way. You can't bridge the difference in skill / activity / experience. When you force teams of unequal strength to fight in the same arena you get what happened as described above during OOP. Also, not everyone wants to improve from their current state or play at a high level.

[Zombies are people too]

Not to be argumentative, but isn't that like saying the Sabres shouldn't be playing in the same division as Tampa Bay this season? I'm assuming all KDs who go to war OOP are not being forced to do so if they choose not to, with the current mechanics in place, and maybe thats where I'm wrong.

-DM <3

[DjTeddySpin]

Not exactly. Without this system, there would be no need for organised KDs to stay low. They would have rushed ahead trying to build their cows and the difference in acres/nw would have been too huge for them to pick on competition out of their league, unless ofc target is fat. That way, they would be fighting in their own league, whereas KDs of similar commitment would find similarly matched competition.

In theory.

[DonJuan]

I think people forget the context of the situation....

This is the 2nd age that this new system was implemented and for the fact that it only took 1 age until someone tried to exploit it...which was corrected rather quickly in the long term.

I think any of the KD players in emerix's KD threatening to quit the game (even after being the KD that was involved but not responsible) are over-exaggerating and should just relax. Be happy that we have owners who know how modern cheaters are working to game the system and are willing to make the moves that ensure fair play...

What if the admins allowed the war to continue in which possibly the KD you were warring maybe had other motives unbeknown to you that may have affected you with an outcome....maybe to get your KD land fat so a bigger allied KD can feed off you or maybe for his KD to be placed lower to get more honor throughout the age?

Would you then complain that there wasn't enough done to have stopped it?

I rather have a pro-active administration than a reactive administration

[Ovenmitt]

I think people forget the context of the situation....

This is the 2nd age that this new system was implemented and for the fact that it only took 1 age until someone tried to exploit it...which was corrected rather quickly in the long term.

I think any of the KD players in emerix's KD threatening to quit the game (even after being the KD that was involved but not responsible) are over-exaggerating and should just relax. Be happy that we have owners who know how modern cheaters are working to game the system and are willing to make the moves that ensure fair play...

What if the admins allowed the war to continue in which possibly the KD you were warring maybe had other motives unbeknown to you that may have affected you with an outcome....maybe to get your KD land fat so a bigger allied KD can feed off you or maybe for his KD to be placed lower to get more honor throughout the age?

Would you then complain that there wasn't enough done to have stopped it?

I rather have a pro-active administration than a reactive administration

No it isn't. The war win bonus is the root of the problem and that started a long time ago. Improving the WW bonus made it worse, forcing bad kds to take land instead of honor made it worse still, and the individual pool bonus being part of it now necessitates it to happen, which is the icing on the cake.

[SnirpsneR]

I think people forget the context of the situation....

This is the 2nd age that this new system was implemented and for the fact that it only took 1 age until someone tried to exploit it...which was corrected rather quickly in the long term.

I think any of the KD players in emerix's KD threatening to quit the game (even after being the KD that was involved but not responsible) are over-exaggerating and should just relax. Be happy that we have owners who know how modern cheaters are working to game the system and are willing to make the moves that ensure fair play...

What if the admins allowed the war to continue in which possibly the KD you were warring maybe had other motives unbeknown to you that may have affected you with an outcome....maybe to get your KD land fat so a bigger allied KD can feed off you or maybe for his KD to be placed lower to get more honor throughout the age?

Would you then complain that there wasn't enough done to have stopped it?

I rather have a pro-active administration than a reactive administration

e happy that we have owners who know how modern cheaters are working to game the system and are willing to make the moves that ensure fair play... <---lol

[emerix]

I think people forget the context of the situation....

This is the 2nd age that this new system was implemented and for the fact that it only took 1 age until someone tried to exploit it...which was corrected rather quickly in the long term.

I think any of the KD players in emerix's KD threatening to quit the game (even after being the KD that was involved but not responsible) are over-exaggerating and should just relax. Be happy that we have owners who know how modern cheaters are working to game the system and are willing to make the moves that ensure fair play...

What if the admins allowed the war to continue in which possibly the KD you were warring maybe had other motives unbeknown to you that may have affected you with an outcome....maybe to get your KD land fat so a bigger allied KD can feed off you or maybe for his KD to be placed lower to get more honor throughout the age?

Would you then complain that there wasn't enough done to have stopped it?

I rather have a pro-active administration than a reactive administration

Generally speaking, we're not angry or sad or disappointed that the war was cut off halfway. Where we feel hard done by is that even the losing side in a normal war gets build/spec creds whereas we got none. Rightly or wrongly, some of us developed the perception that we were being punished in a situation where we did nothing wrong.

We would have been happier with being reset back to where we were just before war was declared so that we could have gone about business as usual trying to look for another war. As it is, we had a tough choice to make since some of our attackers had gained land in the halted war. Do we drop eowcf early? Do we let them pump a bit? If we let them pump, what do the rest do? Switch to pump mode? With no creds and little gold incoming, and no ability to steal gold to finance switch, it was a mighty pain in the ass.