Anything interesting happening?

[flogger]

Curious if you knew it was pyro, BB or AMA, why would you wave 3 kds that you know would take it to war? People don't give free waves when they all start with the same stuff unless they're like T/M personalities.

[Godly]

Curious if you knew it was pyro, BB or AMA, why would you wave 3 kds that you know would take it to war? People don't give free waves when they all start with the same stuff unless they're like T/M personalities.

I was personally against waving. I feel like it puts you into a corner for the rest of the round. But they were correct in identifying that the entire war it would be 4x vs 2x due to Pyro running very low def and no thieves and human is generally bad OOP vs undead. So it would be almost impossible to lose. It was very similar to how you and I decided to wave Mercy in Pulse that one round. Taking out one of the competition early is always a good bonus. Best case it was AMA. Worst case it was Pyro. We rolled the dice :)

[flogger]

did we get a free wave or a war the round in question? I don't recall too many early wars.

[Godly]

They insta declared when troops came home. They had such low defense and troops out that it was a slaughter. They reset the elves after remember.

Almost IDENTICAL to what happened this round. Except this round we kinda had to play 17 vs 25. =\

[flogger]

I count 23 vs 25. Why are you not counting people who are 4x'ing eachother on your side? Don't you also have UBs you wouldn't have had w/o aid?

#godlymath

[Godly]

flogger, if they were good, it would have been 17v25. Fortunately, they're really bad. REALLY bad.

[Judge]

The point I was bringing up was that if someone is getting waved the first 6 hours of the game and the other side knows their location, it's likely the other side will suspect foul play and/or be really really pissed. None of these things are uncommon.

Nice of you to tell me who ya traded locs with pre-age though, that's helpful information.

We waved pulse 3 hours after oop. I guess we traded locations?

[Zauper]

I count 23 vs 25. Why are you not counting people who are 4x'ing eachother on your side? Don't you also have UBs you wouldn't have had w/o aid?

#godlymath

Flogger:
We came oop with 3 mystics that were safe. They did not get aid. Every province that got aid had more released than they received in aid.

Of those, we still got 3 safe -- mostly ones that screwed up their oop training. We had a fae who reversed training orders, so he came out with 4k defspecs. He still managed to get safe. One of our provs that was safe had enough released to become unsafe and was taken down.

Without the releasing, they would not have been able to make quads, they would have been doubling or a few triples. Their opening wave was 71 hits, and of those 71 hits, 31 were on the two land-def provs. Our bottom def after this (that i know of, humans may have had a little less) was still 8k -- what we started with as our bottom def. Their top off was still ~24k.

vs. pyro, including hostile/war:

[16:15] munkbot: pyro | own_tm:18107 (585) | own_raze:479 (13) | own_cq:2 (1) | own_bush:173 (6) | enemy_tm:17898 (612) | enemy_raze:1158 (26) | enemy_mass:408 (2) | enemy_bush:112 (5) | 272 total

They just made a wave with +4, we'll get in a few more hits.


----

And flogger, them taking it to war was very stupid. Their kd had under 1k defspecs, and was sending out all elites. Super high off / super low def loses when we train past their quad point to start, especially when we enter war with TDs and 2 TPA vs .5 TPA. Sure, both kingdoms had the same number of units, but our distribution of units was really setup to fight while theirs was setup to whore. That's why it was unwise for them to war. Only reason acre gains are close is because we're -2 provs in the war (though they've been able to hit those for maybe 800a or so now). That's a 1600a difference over the course of the war, maybe a little more.

(Why are pyro players saying we were asking for 2 free waves? They never messaged us...)

[flogger]

They insta declared when troops came home. They had such low defense and troops out that it was a slaughter. They reset the elves after remember.

Almost IDENTICAL to what happened this round. Except this round we kinda had to play 17 vs 25. =\

I think they waved us that age ~2 days OOP the second they could see us, HU sage/rogue vs HU cleric 1/2. I spent the previous few hours before they waved convincing them it was a bad idea for both sides, they waved anyways. I don't recall another OOP mercy war.

[topsy's revenge]

Warring oop on no acres is never a good idea unless your only planning on warring for the age. We didn't get our war with BB or Pyro last age so need to make up for it!

[Godly]

They assumed we would want 2 waves, I think. We didn't. There wasn't much left to take anyways as our hostile wave was very good.

I told council that despite my objections to waving, if they offer CF, don't be stupid and ask for another wave and I would be on board with it.

Overall, Pyro did a decent job at staying in the war given the circumstances of being underprepared. If our kingdoms were swapped, we would have won in their shoes after the Bishoping. However, before the Bishoping, no one could have won in their shoes. So thats why zauper is saying it's incorrect to declare. Not sure they had much of a choice though.

[flogger]

Its a prisonners dilemma, you'll never get waved OOP if your enemy is trying to chart and knows they'll declare just to hurt you as well. Waving pyros or AMAs doesn't seem like good strategy.

[Zauper]

Its a prisonners dilemma, you'll never get waved OOP if your enemy is trying to chart and knows they'll declare just to hurt you as well. Waving pyros or AMAs doesn't seem like good strategy.

I think the age Godly is referring to, you guys waved sanc, not mercy, right oop and crowned ;p

The reality is, pre-bishoping, we could have reasonably expected to be +3k at mintime considering the pace at which we could have generated safe provs, +8k acres including WW bonus is a pretty strong advantage early.

(It's worth mentioning that I actually thought it was a total ghetto, not pyro AMA or BB)

[KuhaN]

Two members of a criminal gang are arrested
and imprisoned. Each prisoner is in solitary
confinement with no means of speaking to or
exchanging messages with the other. The
police admit they don't have enough
evidence to convict the pair on the principal charge. They plan to sentence both to a year
in prison on a lesser charge. Simultaneously,
the police offer each prisoner a Faustian bargain. Each prisoner is given the opportunity either to betray the other, by
testifying that the other committed the crime,
or to cooperate with the other by remaining
silent. Here's how it goes: If A and B both betray the other, each of them serves 2 years in prison If A betrays B but B remains silent, A will be set free and B will serve 3 years in prison (and
vice versa) If A and B both remain silent, both of them will only serve 1 year in prison (on the lesser
charge) It's implied that the prisoners will have no
opportunity to reward or punish their partner
other than the prison sentences they get, and
that their decision won't affect their reputation in
future. Because betraying a partner offers a
greater reward than cooperating with them, all purely rational self-interested prisoners would
betray the other, and so the only possible
outcome for two purely rational prisoners is for them to betray each other.[1] The interesting part of this result is that pursuing individual
reward logically leads both of the prisoners to
betray, when they would get a better reward if
they both cooperated. In reality, humans display
a systematic bias towards cooperative behavior
in this and similar games, much more so than predicted by simple models of "rational" self- interested action.[2][3][4][5] A model based on a different kind of rationality, where people
forecast how the game would be played if they
formed coalitions and then they maximize their
forecasts, has been shown to make better
predictions of the rate of cooperation in this and
similar games given only the payoffs of the game.

[munk]

How to lighten the mood:

[21:39] <prehensile> Now, important question. I have almost 5k runes and Mage's Fury expiring in 20 mins. Do I a) moar FB b) send for ToG since he complained when I FBd earlier c) Other. Answers on a postcard please.
[21:39] <flizzo|work> the answer
[21:39] <flizzo|work> is prolapse
[21:39] <Helluva> C
[21:39] <flizzo|work> what was the question again
[21:40] <Benjamin> d: Homotider
[21:40] <prehensile> what is 6 times 9
[21:40] <prehensile> was the question
[21:40] <flizzo|work> ALL WRONG
[21:40] <Felonious> ew!
[21:40] <topsy> pre
[21:40] <topsy> just hold runes
[21:40] <flizzo|work> "what do you get if you multiply six by nine"
[21:40] <Felonious> I didn't know wot prolapse meant
[21:40] <Felonious> and jus looked it up
[21:40] <Felonious> ...ugh
[21:41] <prehensile> FORTY TWO
[21:41] <flizzo|work> OMG
[21:41] <flizzo|work> I JUST PROLAPSED SOMEONE BEFORE MUNK
[21:41] <prehensile> ok topsy
[21:41] <munk> WWHAAAT
[21:41] <flizzo|work> why does that not show up in my mcf
[21:41] <flizzo|work> munk
[21:41] <munk> NOOOOOO
[21:41] <flizzo|work> mcf needs to include a prolapse category
[21:41] <prehensile> Deana still has MF up right to the (probable) bitter end anyway
[21:41] <munk> Felonious
[21:41] <munk> check out this funny cartoon with prolapse
[21:41] <munk> MEMEDOMAIN.com/meme/5SVN/double-prolapse/image.png
[21:41] <Felonious> I'm skurred
[21:42] <munk> its just cartoon Felonious
[21:42] <Benjamin> oh man
[21:42] <Benjamin> i fell for it
[21:42] <Benjamin> never again
[21:42] <munk> HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
[21:42] <Benjamin> you are a twisted **** munk
[21:42] <munk> you are too easy
[21:42] <Felonious> OMG
[21:42] <Benjamin> i should have known
[21:42] <Felonious> blah
[21:42] <Felonious> ./ignore munk
[21:42] <Helluva> rofl
[21:43] <Helluva> felonious got prolapsed?
[21:43] <Helluva> cmoooon
[21:43] <haplo> thank god i didnt click the link