KT vs HaLL

[Asmodeus]

Sir Nasty why don't you change your arguement to say you are Anti-Alliance

you did say HaLL was being aggressive.. and i challenged you to say where we were the aggressor in this conflict?

and you cannot so you "deflect" the attention to what?

you say we do this to other kingdoms in the game ?

nice blind accusation there.

you say: "If nothing else.. 25 players, 1 kingdom, that is the game."

you're probably the same guy that wont surrender in a war you're losing.. just out of spite to ruin the other kingdom's age. and get pissed off when they have friends start razing you.

i have news for you friend.. the game is not just 1 kingdom 25 players anymore

there are and have been alliance for a long time.. mehul and then Omac have not removed them and they remain apart of the game. you're talking to someone who has been around for a long time.. and played With alliances.. and also played without them.


we all play for our own enjoyment.. the one point that you did have is that this is a game.
but let's not take away what each of us expect out of this "game" that we all put in different amounts of effort into.

now when you spend 1 hour on your prov 3 hours on spamming the forums every day.. that is what you get..

when i spend 5 minutes on my prov every tick for 10 hours a day .. and i spend 5 hours on my kingdom and 5 hours on my alliance.. obviously i expect alot more then you do from the game.. since you get your reward where you put your time in i guess :)

but yes.. from your "Post Fiend" status i can see that you're nothing but a thread jumper and topic humper.. and probably got owened by old HaLL back in the day. so you're jumping on the old noob wagon.

with that said.. i'll let you ride on cowboy :)

[gergnub]

FACT #12 Allanon posts bits and pieces of conversations together with a bunch of statements of propaganda to get people to hate HaLL.

I think HaLL is doing a mighty good by themself. But thats just me :)

[kkalle]

Haha, indeed fun! I love the "facts" that Asmodeus posted re Zauper's feelings. Haha, I bet if he had a log on Zaps feelings he would post them here too, as *proof* of course!

If I recall correctly (note I'm being humble) we really weren't scared of Force's killer or mostly any other killer at that time because unless they all worked together in a chain-raze, they were too small to really gain much off of Zauper due to size difference. So regarding Zap's relievement or him being scared or whatever you managed to print out - I think you are making a rather hasty judgement. And I wish you had decided to "crush" us then. Would have been much more fun than being double hostiled later! :) But I guess you care too much about your friends, your actions clearly show that.

Re the target you were going to provide for Lurg, I guess you missed the nuance of what Mr_Caid was saying and he never said "we will find a target of our own". He was saying that "Err. Man, your target sucks, heck we could find a better one in a couple minutes ourselves, Ill get back to you" It is a small passus and is fine too, as you obviously became Mr_Caid's friend by calling him friend twice. So very friendly of you Asmodeus! Almost deserve a snuggle for that.

As you know (and even remarked on), we consider HaLL breaking the nap/cf prior to us making any hits on HaLL banks. So maybe we can put that aside as it wont get you or anyone else anywhere. Odyssey leaving KT was due to two things, first and foremost, we found the HaLL-made apology too damn fun and it confirmed what we already knew of HaLL. No thanks, a beating is just a beating and it's not the first time we are banged by HaLL or other alliances. Secondly, we knew we were gonna need help and it seemed unlikely that KT would be willing to engage in a full awar of types. As we had to make that silly apology (which mostly reminds me of AA and some other alliance war way back and their apologies) or leave KT, the two combined made us leave KT and prepare for a beating.

Allanon was indeed in need of a scapegoat aka Zaup, and I feel sorry for him, because he was torn between short term and long term benefits and it ended up biting him in his ass. I am sure he has learned from it.

As for HaLL, haven't there always been some type of hatred against powerplaying alliances in general and HaLL in particular? Why? Well, in HaLL's case, there seem to be a number of people who really come across as being renegades and dumbfound and who together represent HaLL and make the rest of you look bad. Then of course you have your actions who speak aloud themselves, I mean, Odyssey is clearly the underdog here, it is 1 kd vs various segments of HaLL alliance. Any justification for alliance actions vs 1 kd is pretty much at a loss and I am sorry to say but your name/HaLL has been in the mud multiple ages prior to this age and will continue to be seen as an alliance who plays it dirty but I thought you guys had given up on trying to clean up your name? I gotta admit one thing tho, HaLL seem to be a bunch of doers, which I respect. Utopia would see more action if it had less talk and more doing.

Also, what the heck happened to your/HaLL's age anyway? Didn't stoffi proclaim that he was going after Absalom this age? I guess there is some time left still but fact is that you have spent most of this age jibbering with one kd. I guess Odyssey really did piss you guys off, or maybe its just Zauper haha.

[Zauper]

you want Facts ?

I approached Allanon with this offer because of a friendship that he has had with myself and Darkmoore for some time. Zauper was next on our our list of banks to take down. and when that idiot lurg flamed me in PMs after i hit him.. that's when i realized what kd it was and zauper was in Allanon's group.

They say they wanted a retal on Force??!?!?

[10:22] <zapanap> DM, is there a way to throw up an ingame CF btwn us and 8:28?

Yes, an ingame CF to prevent anyone in my kingdom from logging in and hitting without coming on IRC. I'm sure that's a reason why we didn't retal. You know, it is very hard to break ingame CFs. My clicking finger is broken, afterall.

lol.. he was told several times he wasn't going to get a retal in Force or any HaLL kd and he still wanted the CF !!!

False.

you say that Darkmoore and Caid were the one that discussed the target issue?

FALSE!!!

Sorry, I forgot it was you who spoke to us, and you who hit.

log

Caid said he could find a better target to random. Not that it relieved your need to provide us with a retal. This was brought up at the CF negotiations, and it was agreed then that force would provide us with a retal. Remember when I said the log you posted would be prior to the negotiations? Ta-da, you went ahead and proved it.

Funny how you can give us terms when we were the one that approached you purely out of Friendship .. giving your Banks Asylum from the most powerful killer on the server at the time.

Zauper went along with this because he knew if he didn't he was going down.. and the first opportunity that he got.. he double crossed us!
some lame crap about us not keeping terms ???

Really? The 'most powerful killer' had the same offense as 2-3 killers in Freedom. The only difference is he had slightly more NW, which was probably made up for by the fact that his nwgrowth was minimal and he had no land incoming. On the other hand, I had 40-45% more NW than him, and was gaining 4-5k nw/hour on him. If he had razed me, he wouldn't have gotten more than one off.

Sorry, I wasn't afraid of your kd, or of your killer.

and you want some terms for Sonata and benM after you were told benM was NOT HaLL
and we would not make them give any retals.. or make them do anything..
you were made aware of that.. and you still went ahead with this Deal.. only later to claim that was still a term EVEN THOUGH we did NOT agree to it?

Yes, it was a term. It's been posted -- if benm was 'not hall', why were they included in the deal?

The term was that as proof you were 'new hall' rather than 'old hall', you had to take care of the situation.

Hurlin:
For what it's worth, I also told him to go ahead and make a deal with HaLL so he didn't get GB'd.

Path:
I'm not going to bother to read the logs. We both know that Allanon was given the choice of either acting like that and saying those things, or being GB'd by HaLL.

sidenote -- someone pointed to the snippet 'zauper is notorious for these kinds of things'.

I've never broken a deal before, but Darkmoore -- your leader -- has broken a NAP with me in the past. That makes me notorious? Interesting.

FACT #1 Zauper was scared of getting beaten down by big bad Force killer

False.

FACT #2 Zauper was quite relieved when Big bad force killer turns out to be friend of Allanon

False.

FACT #3 HaLL NEVER agreed to give zauper any retal for a hit that was made BEFORE the proposition ever occured.

False.

FACT #4 Zauper took the CF / NAP opportunity to safely convert himself

False, mostly. I continued playing as planned.

FACT #5 Zauper broke the NAP by hitting several HaLL banks.. some even in active hostiles.

The CF had been cancelled at that point, due to your failure to meet conditions.

FACT #6 Zauper got pwnt
FACT #7 Zauper left KT

True, and unrelated.

FACT #8 Allanon came to HaLL crying a river
FACT #9 HaLL feels bad for Allanon and gave him 2 week CF
FACT #10 CF ended and Allanon was a juicy target and got hit a couple times
FACT #11 Allanon cries and thinks it's personal.
FACT #12 Allanon posts bits and pieces of conversations together with a bunch of statements of propaganda to get people to hate HaLL.
FACT #13 Allanon will never be friends with us again.. as he wont be givin any more opprtunities to drag our name through the mud.

You're doing a good job dragging your own name through the mud.

p.s. Your folks have been 'posting snippets' to make other people look bad since the start of this. Go ahead -- post the full log of everything.

Sir Nasty what you say makes no damn sense..

HaLL never did anything aggressive to Zauper or Allanon after a deal was made.. and even before only 1 random hit before we realized who they were.

Failed to follow through on the conditions of the deal. I view that as aggression. I view threatening to cancel the deal as being aggressive, as well.

it was zauper who broke NAP with aggressive actions.. and started attacking several different hall banks.. some even while they were in active hostile..

One was in a hostile, not tagged. Sorry, I don't CE before I random.

excuse me let me correct myself..
that 1 hit before deal was made was not random.. that was force getting ready to crush zauper's kd..
BEFORE we realized who they were..
and i will remind everyone that the only reason we approached them with a deal was because we realized that it was infact zauper's kd.. AND that zauper was in Allanon's group.

Really? Getting ready to crush my kd? With what, exactly? A random? Yeah, that's a helluva windup.

[Allanon KT]

let me clarify one thing before anyone else tries to say something about it. Yes, I used Zauper as a scapegoat. At Zauper's suggestion. When he informed me his kingdom was leaving KT, he told me not to stick my neck out for their sake. That means cutting our losses and finding a way out. And the only way out was by laying the responsibility for this on them. Do I regret having to make that decision?: Yes. Zauper is a good mate of mine, and has been since shortly after I got back to this game. But I had a responsibility to my kingdom and my alliance to end the conflict with HaLL asap, as there was no way realisticly we could stand and fight. We had no backup coming for various reasons, we had just two kingdoms in range that were prepared to fight, and no other way out. We couldn't even engage in hostiles or wars with other kingdoms without interference from HaLL.

And Asmodeus, you want to talk about friendship, what sort of friend invites me to merge our groups, makes a deal with us, and then sits back and lies to my face about the intention of the group's leader to break the deal? When I spoke to you about Darkmoore's conversation with me, you insisted that you guys had no intention of getting involved in an alliance war. Yet I was completely vindicated when during a preliminary draft of the uTimes article, I saw a direct quote from darkmoore state that he had said from the beginning you never intended to stay out of an alliance war! A quote that was only removed from the article after logs of the deal and of Darkmoore agreeing to it were provided to uTimes! HaLL lied to us from the very beginning, Asmodeus. You had intended to use the size of your group to try and force us into going along with your little scheme whilst securing yourselves from the two largest cows on the server at the time, cows that were pulling away fast from you and converting to attackers, and could ensure any cow you tried to send up without fwar and gbp as cover would end badly.

[MorbidAngel]

who's _ guy?

[MrCaid]

Morbid, who are you pointing at?

[Syntico]

I hath enjoyed reading.. some more please.

[MorbidAngel]

Morbid, who are you pointing at?

Someone's name in those logs is hidden intentionally. If he already posted private logs, do not alter them..

[Sir Nasty]

Asmodeus, your posts make me laugh.. not the funny laugh.. the kind of laughing you do when you are sitting there shaking your head thinking.. WTF is this guy on?

I was making 2 clear points.. One about Allanon but his post speaks the facts so I am not going to post on that subject again. (I can't tell his side of the story better than he can)
The second being that HaLL is an aggressive alliance. Yes... there are alliances.. generally though most are smart enough to know that if they don't respect the kingdom vs kingdom part of the game they will find themselves under fire pretty fast.
HaLL is power playing and simple math tells you that it is just a matter of time before
they piss off enough people and/or the wrong people with their power playing.

Argue with it all you want but please stop telling me what I mean etc.. just quote my post and address it directly. You really go off on some wild tangents.

[MorbidAngel]

So what if they are agressive alliance? I personally prefer aggre over defensive onesas they bring more dramma in the game and make it interesting :D


Also, seeing fate is reading this i will add that Fate1316 is too gay to be emo

[Sir Nasty]

I almost said the same thing.. aggressive alliances are fun.. especially when they unite the rest of the server against them :)

[MrCaid]

Hmmm I don't know who the _ guy is.

But heck, in other logs they replace "Darkmoore" with "HaLL leadership" or something. Acting all cool and incognito.

[stoffi]

Holy crap what a useless discussion.


Let's drop the who said what and who did what.

There is 1 crucial action that made HaLL get angry with Zauper/KT.

______________________


Here it goes:

- Zauper BROKE a NAP with HaLL without warning and targetted HaLL banks.


I really don't care what reason Zauper had for breaking the NAP, the fact remains, he broke a NAP without warning and hit into active hostiles and wars.
When you are unsatisfied with a NAP deal, you tell the other part and you let them know "Hey, we will be cancelling the NAP in 48 hours because we are not satisfied with it". I mean, how f**king hard is that? Everyone knows this.
And no matter what Zauper claims, the fact remains, we HAD an official NAP going even though you might claim otherwise. If we did not have a NAP up, you should have gotten an Oscar when we discussed the NAP as it was already implemented. It was a NAP for HaLL's part and you certainly agreed or pretended to agree. Either way, you lied.

Allanon himself tried to explain Zauper that he can't just cancel a nap and hit right away, but Zauper got greedy and didn't wanna wait 48 hours. There were alot of HaLL banks without any offense around, and Zauper wanted their acres.

Allanon TRIED to act honorable, but Zauper's greed was too strong. And now Zauper is pissed because his greed came back and slapped him in the face. Bu-f**king-hu!

[Zauper]

Holy crap what a useless discussion.


Let's drop the who said what and who did what.

There is 1 crucial action that made HaLL get angry with Zauper/KT.

______________________


Here it goes:

- Zauper BROKE a NAP with HaLL without warning and targetted HaLL banks.

That's fine. HaLL is allowed to be mad that we cancelled a deal and hit them. We feel like HaLL broke the deal first. You don't -- good for you.

I really don't care what reason Zauper had for breaking the NAP, the fact remains, he broke a NAP without warning and hit into active hostiles and wars.

Hitting into a fake war is completely acceptable.

When you are unsatisfied with a NAP deal, you tell the other part and you let them know "Hey, we will be cancelling the NAP in 48 hours because we are not satisfied with it". I mean, how f**king hard is that? Everyone knows this.

Darkmoore doesn't know it. I gave HaLL more notice than Darkmoore gave me before breaking our NAP age 28.

And no matter what Zauper claims, the fact remains, we HAD an official NAP going even though you might claim otherwise. If we did not have a NAP up, you should have gotten an Oscar when we discussed the NAP as it was already implemented. It was a NAP for HaLL's part and you certainly agreed or pretended to agree. Either way, you lied.

I agreed. You broke the terms.

You could have said 'Hey Zauper, we have no intention of giving you the retal we agreed on.' and I would have said 'Fine, deal is off.'

You could have said 'Hey Zauper, all this bs about a 'new hall' is just that -- bs.' and I would have said 'Fine, deal is off.'

You didn't do either. You broke the terms, 'without notice'.

Allanon himself tried to explain Zauper that he can't just cancel a nap and hit right away, but Zauper got greedy and didn't wanna wait 48 hours. There were alot of HaLL banks without any offense around, and Zauper wanted their acres.

Allanon TRIED to act honorable, but Zauper's greed was too strong. And now Zauper is pissed because his greed came back and slapped him in the face. Bu-f**king-hu!

My policy in these situations is simple, Stoffi. I treat other players the way they treat me. Most people know that about me. When players have a history of unethical play towards me, I respond the same way. When the person doing the negotiations for you has broke a NAP with me with no warning in the past, why shouldn't I treat you the same way?