Lower kd sizes

[Thunder TA]

Sorry but i dont play in or near the top anymore nor want to. You have yet to make a single point that shows where making kingdom sizes at 20 will do anything to ( help ,save ,insert any word you want here ) new players still wont have a clue joining even what the top kds are anyway.ghettoes will still have 8-10 people and the only think that will change is those removed by force from their full kingdoms will

a) Quit and their kingdoms will also along with friends making even less kingdoms

b) Go to other games " like ' utopia.

The more people leave the faster this game dies. Every suggestion to run off even 300 more people to me looks like it has alternative motives. The more that leave the more other games grow.

[WolfDGrey]

b) Go to other games " like ' utopia.

Yes I do play battlefields. That doesn't stop me to play Utopia or to try to help Utopia.

The more people leave the faster this game dies. Every suggestion to run off even 300 more people to me looks like it has alternative motives. The more that leave the more other games grow.

By not lowering kingdom sizes we loose more people than 300. Your argument is also a false dilemma, but the problem is that you posted it seriously while palem was sarcastic. Way to go.

[Korp]

By not lowering kingdom sizes we loose more people than 300.

Right, like you can prove that not lowering kd size has a direct relation to people would leaving.

[Luc]

Right, like you can prove that not lowering kd size has a direct relation to people would leaving.

No, he can't. And you can't prove him wrong either.

False dichotomy (since you love the straw man you should learn more logical fallacies)... MAYBE this suggestion would affect mostly the top because MAYBE they would be the ones kicking 5 players and so understandably MAYBE they aren't happy about it. Another reason is that it is totally an unnecessary change since it wouldn't increase competition at all as I've already identified the real cause of lack of competition in another thread.

You seem to confuse your own opinions with the truth. If we thought you had identified the real cause, we wouldn't still be here arguing. You believe it won't increase competition, and we believe it will. Neither side can show any proof. We don't buy your arguments, and you don't buy ours, and that's why we're not getting anywhere. Or maybe you think you're obviously right and we're just dumb?

Luc: they dont make money because they cant code a game.what game stays in Beta or alpha for over 2 years ? the game is dumbed down enough.making it even worse wont bring in new people but will send more away to alternative games.as more go to the alternative games guess where the new players will also go.it wont be here because the game will have even less players much like UK .

Wrong. They don't make money because there aren't enough players to get enough from advertising to do more than cover the server costs. It has nothing to do with there being some bugs in the game. People were leaving fast long before that. Fixing the bugs is not gonna bring back 5k players to make the game pay for itself and a dev's attentions again.

[Korp]

No, he can't. And you can't prove him wrong either.

I dont know about you, but where I come from we use facts when we argue and not speculations. But if go by your logic there is no point in aruging at all cause nothing can ever be proven according to you. But, lets look at what he wrote again, he claimed didnt say "I think" but claimed that if not lowering the kingdom size people will leave. People have been leaving the game for quite some time and it certainly havent been due to kingdom size. That suddenly it will be due to kingdoms being 25 and not 20 is not a plausible argument. Your above line is quite childish.

They don't make money because there aren't enough players to get enough from advertising to do more than cover the server costs.

And why isnt there enough players? ...

[Thunder TA]

Wolf :
your throwing what you wish out. No where can you honestly say 1 person has quit because kingdoms are at 25 people as they have always been.new people come and go as always.


Palem:
wrong, a working game gets players. when they took over players started coming back. thats been proven,when the new code was brought in people came back also. when it didnt work people left. simple.

both of you can continue to say game issues are not causing people to leave.thats fine. new games that have been coded in a couple of months that work better are gaining players daily. they are advertising and correcting bugs. its the product that sells .bad working products get replaced with better working ones.

[Luc]

I dont know about you, but where I come from we use facts when we argue and not speculations. But if go by your logic there is no point in aruging at all cause nothing can ever be proven according to you. But, lets look at what he wrote again, he claimed didnt say "I think" but claimed that if not lowering the kingdom size people will leave. People have been leaving the game for quite some time and it certainly havent been due to kingdom size. That suddenly it will be due to kingdoms being 25 and not 20 is not a plausible argument. Your above line is quite childish.

It's reasonable to think 25 player kd's is part of the reason why people leave. I know several people who quit because they thought it was boring that you had to fight the same kd's over and over because you could never fill the kd and move up a level. Many good leaders have also left because they couldn't fill the kd. They got to around 20 and then they gave up.

Claiming that 25 player kd has no effect at all is what I think is childish.

And why isnt there enough players? ...

Because the game is boring as hell. The same kd's end up in the same positions every age, most of the kd's are not full, and you always fight the same people. Among the other reasons

[WolfDGrey]

Wolf :
your throwing what you wish out. No where can you honestly say 1 person has quit because kingdoms are at 25 people as they have always been.

Nowhere you can claim they don't. Fact is that the current state of the game makes people leave. We are less than 7k here. And yes, boredom and status quo makes people leave.

new people come and go as always.

Which new people?

both of you can continue to say game issues are not causing people to leave.

Don't be a tard. Nodody said that. Stop twisting what people say.

they are advertising and correcting bugs. its the product that sells .bad working products get replaced with better working ones.

AGREED. (Partially. Because some times only the ad sells, the product is bad, yet still sells. There are countless examples for that.)

I dont know about you, but where I come from we use facts when we argue and not speculations.

- Fact: people are leaving because the status quo. Same kingdoms up, same kingdoms warring. Same kingdoms.
- Fact: Keeping the status quo SURELY WON'T HELP.
- Fact: More full kingdoms offer a richer gameplay, more excitement and more challenge.
- Fact: Most landwhores who are interested in keeping the status quo (read: ABS and alike) are against the suggestion regardless of arguments.
-Speculation: A stirrup, a mild change might help.

Right, like you can prove that not lowering kd size has a direct relation to people would leaving.

I can reasonably argue that the present state of the game makes people leave. I can reasonably argue that the game structure at the current state is boring. I can reasonably argue that lowering kingdom sizes affect allmost no players, as every kingdom change a few players during one age. That, you come back with the same old broken record, like a parrot, is another thing.

And I don;'t have to argue that it has a DIRECT RELATION, an INDIRECT RELATION trough boredom and status quo is just as good.

[lichemaster]

Because the game is boring as hell. The same kd's end up in the same positions every age, most of the kd's are not full, and you always fight the same people. Among the other reasons

Reducing kingdom size will not change any of this.

[Luc]

Reducing kingdom size will not change any of this.

Yes it will. Creating more full kd's will give more kd's a chance to compete, as a consequence learn from better kd's and become more competitive later. Lowering kd sizes will also make it easier to create new kd's, which is essential for being able to spread out the little knowledge of how to lead a good kd that's left in the game.

How can you possibly argue that having a full kd instead of an 80% full one doesn't increase your chances of competing? Not saying it will make you win the NW crown all of a sudden, but seriously?

When you've got a full kd, you can fight other full kd's without having a disadvantage in numbers right from the start. Meaning it's up to strategies and activity how well you do instead. Meaning you have a chance of learning about strategies if you happen to lose. Also, building a kd with 20 active players is easier than building a 25 player kd with 25 active players. So even if you lose, you have a great chance to learn something new, and also you've been able to do something new (fighting someone that you haven't fought several times before). The status quo is what makes people leave.

[lichemaster]

In my opinion it will make the game more boring as people would only have 19 mates max.

It will not give you new kingdoms to fight with because the positions will all be pretty much the same anyway.
It will not spread out any knowledge because people with knowledge that aren't leaders by now will not be leaders with 20 players either since they just don't want to.
Your disadvantage from numbers is highly overrated as it is balanced by networth, explore pool limits, etc.
You will not learn from competing with better kingdoms because if you aren't competing with them right now this change won't make you do it.

Agreed on the status quo and what we need to change it is more players and advertising.

[pmyraje]

I fail to see how this would have any radical effect on Utopia at all. It seems to be being put forwards as some magical way to improve the game, but for who? I don't see who benefits from this at all. A few KDs with over 25 players will get trimmed down to have 20 players. That is just about the only "fact" involved in the suggestion. Is this suddenly going to mean that disorganised kingdoms who have 20 players at the moment are suddenly going to start going to war with top kingdoms who would be even stronger with their weaker members removed?

If most kingdoms don't have anything like 25 players at the moment then that is as much an argument of how pointless this change would be as it is an argument that it will have little bad effect. Moving a few pebbles around a beach doesn't change anything. Reshuffling the entire of Utopia into tightly packed kingdoms, all of 20 people, might do, but very few people want so radical a solution.

[VT2]

It would have a massive effect on the game.
Since so few can even get 23 players, it's natural to limit the maximum to 20.

That way, all those that can somehow keep shells of 25 will not have an instant advantage over the majority of the game, and all those kings and queens who hate recruiting, and find being unpaid managers not worth it, will have a much, much easier time keeping their kingdoms filled, because 20 is indeed 5 less than 25.

"Reshuffling the entire of Utopia into tightly packed kingdoms, all of 20 people, might do, but very few people want so radical a solution. " What are you talking about?

[Thunder TA]

VT2 you would still have 17 people while the other had 20. it wont change your recruiting. Then the next step people will be screaming the kds with 20 people are to big and no one can get to 20 so what then ? a crusaide for kingdoms to be dropped to 15? 10 ? Once you open that box its hard to close it again.remember when the legal trading box got opened ,its hard to shut it.

[VT2]

It changes a lot of things.
I've told you why multiple times. Others have done the same.

Read the thread. Don't whine and moan when you're presented with arguments you can't beat down with claims of being elite, and everybody else being 'n00b,' or 'wanting to dumb the game down.'