Merchant income dropped

[vlaM]

it was already stated that the bonus to banks doubles the % of land then calculates effectiveness from there. there was nothing to imply that it should breach the hard cap bonus of the building.

[CGG]

1% banks works BETTER than 2% banks. 50% banks for non merchant works how 15% banks work for a merchant.

[Hanoumatoi]

1% banks works BETTER than 2% banks. 50% banks for non merchant works how 15% banks work for a merchant.

What?

[Sulimo]

it was already stated that the bonus to banks doubles the % of land then calculates effectiveness from there. there was nothing to imply that it should breach the hard cap bonus of the building.

That was said indeed. But it was wrong. The way the bonuses are/were calculated was one of two options:

-Banks were simply twice as effective, so 2.5% per % of banks, automatically moving the cap to 62.5%
-Banks were counted at +100% BE, keeping the cap at 31.25% but then at a maximum of indeed around 15% of land as banks. (or more, obviously)

I found out later on that it was calculated as the first option, so of course I built a load of banks. Thanks for changing the rules while I'm playing.....

[Bishop]

That was said indeed. But it was wrong. The way the bonuses are/were calculated was one of two options:

-Banks were simply twice as effective, so 2.5% per % of banks, automatically moving the cap to 62.5%
-Banks were counted at +100% BE, keeping the cap at 31.25% but then at a maximum of indeed around 15% of land as banks. (or more, obviously)

I found out later on that it was calculated as the first option, so of course I built a load of banks. Thanks for changing the rules while I'm playing.....

you based your assumptions on a bug then, not a lot we can do about it.

[Hanoumatoi]

That was said indeed. But it was wrong. The way the bonuses are/were calculated was one of two options:

-Banks were simply twice as effective, so 2.5% per % of banks, automatically moving the cap to 62.5%
-Banks were counted at +100% BE, keeping the cap at 31.25% but then at a maximum of indeed around 15% of land as banks. (or more, obviously)

I found out later on that it was calculated as the first option, so of course I built a load of banks. Thanks for changing the rules while I'm playing.....

People seem very confused.

Double effectiveness means that it's like you had twice as many of them. So instead of having 10%, you get the benefit of 20%, not 25%, and not 2x the benefit of 10%.
Here's the math for all such modifiers:
Base: BaseValuePerPercent * PercentLand * (1-PercentLand)
Double effect: BaseValuePerPercent * 2 * PercentLand * (1-2*PercentLand)

[Sulimo]

If 10% banks would have counted as 20% banks, it wouldn't have had twice the effect. So it wasn't calculated that way. It might be now, I don't know.

[CGG]

so
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*.1*(1-.1) = 0.1125
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*2*.1*(1-.1) = 0.225

so 10% banks gives you 22.5% bonus, which would take...
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*.24*(1-.24) = 0.228

24% of normal banks.

The cap is based on basevaluepercent*25 or something.

If it was calced the way you want it then it would be
<CGG> 1.25*.2*(1-.2) = 0.2

20% bonus for 10% banks, instead of 22.5%

[Sulimo]

you based your assumptions on a bug then, not a lot we can do about it.

Well, posting the rules clearly, for one? I never read anyone from staff writing it would still have the same cap....

Anyway, so how do merchant's banks work now, then? do I get 22.5% income bonus from 10% banks at 100% BE, or 20% income bonus?

so
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*.1*(1-.1) = 0.1125
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*2*.1*(1-.1) = 0.225

so 10% banks gives you 22.5% bonus, which would take...
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*.24*(1-.24) = 0.228

24% of normal banks.

The cap is based on basevaluepercent*25 or something.

It doesn't really make sense to me to change the % of banks in only one part of the equation...1.25*20*(100-20)/100 would make more sense than 1.25*20*(100-10)/100. Also, how then do we calculate the hard cash doubling (25 gc per banks to 50 gc per bank)? You could do it % wise, but that's a long way around for a simple calculation

[Hanoumatoi]

so
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*.1*(1-.1) = 0.1125
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*2*.1*(1-.1) = 0.225

so 10% banks gives you 22.5% bonus, which would take...
[14:29] <CGG> 1.25*.24*(1-.24) = 0.228

24% of normal banks.

The cap is based on basevaluepercent*25 or something.

If it was calced the way you want it then it would be
<CGG> 1.25*.2*(1-.2) = 0.2

20% bonus for 10% banks, instead of 22.5%

Have you confirmed that math with in game income?

[Bishop]

Well, posting the rules clearly, for one? I never read anyone from staff writing it would still have the same cap....

look at orc gains mod, or plunder caps - you cant break hard caps. This is pretty standard afaik.

[CGG]

Yes. I confirm everything in game, which is why I'm not surprised that it acts how it acts. If you had applied your own formula to the game you would have seen that it didn't match.

I changed the number to 25 to get roughly the same bonus. 10% merchant banks give the bonus of 25% normal banks. 15% merchant banks give the bonus of 50% normal banks.

[vlaM]

"Also, how then do we calculate the hard cash doubling (25 gc per banks to 50 gc per bank)?"

%banks*land*25*be*2
or
#banks*25*be*2

doesn't seem that difficult.

also, check this link out: http://forums.joltonline.com/showthr...ential-changes
specifically this:
"x2 as effective on tds and banks, what does this mean: If you have 10% Banks, or TDs, the game will calc as if you had 20%"

you had fair warning. it was made clear how the effectiveness should be implemented.

[Fenleone]

1) The cap for banks is 31.25% income.

2) Your Buildings page doesn't include Race or Personality Effects.

3) So for a merchant if your buildings page lists income bonus from banks at less than 15.625% then simply multiply it by 2

4) For a Merchant if your buildings page lists income bonus from banks at more than 15.625% then you are at the cap of 31.25%

5) Assuming 100% Building Efficiency you will cap out bank effects at slightly less than 14.65% Banks

6) At lower BE the %Banks needed to hit cap goes up at higher BE it goes down.

7) See my previous post (or look it up on the wiki) to see how to calculate things.

[CGG]

It doesn't even calculate it like you have 20%. Its BETTER than was announced. You should be HAPPY.