Chasity OVERPOWERED

[Palem]

Our job is to moderate the forums and make sure everyone is following the rules. You're getting other player's feedback, that's all.

[DjTeddySpin]

Then you're not giving me player's feedbacks, you're constructing a merry-go-round.

[Luc]

Negligible cos you dont spam MV obviously - stop being obtuse Luc :p

Eh? Why would you have to spam chastity if you don't have to spam MV? Chastity is simple to cast, unlike MV. You can chastity half a kd with the runes you generally need to MV 1 or 2 players. MV is in the best case scenario like 5 times more expensive than Chastity, and in the worst case it doesn't work at all. Does that seem like a reasonable counter to you? In practice, chastity is as easily removed as riots, meaning not at all. At the same time, chastity can be a lot more powerful than riots, and is significantly cheaper and easier. How does that make sense?

"And again, having no pop growth because of a simple ass spell is no fun" <-- being "affected" isnt the same as it being overpowered, which is the point of this entire thread

The whole point is that chastity does too much damage for the cost and difficulty, something that's been repeated to you several times, and you have yet to respond to it. A minor adjustment to the rune cost will make 0 difference, because the whole point is that you don't really need to spam the spell at all. Completely stopping someone's population is powerful, and it shouldn't be almost as easy as getting a cb used to be (for any half decent a/m or t/m), it's ridiculous.

Again, overpowered is not about something giving you an auto-win for the age, it's about what you get for what it costs and how easy it is to counter.

[Bishop]

Did someone just make a veiled "do your job" post at me? I was unaware I was not entitled to an opinion here - in fact I know I'm entitled to one just as I am entitled to instantly ban people that tell me to "do my job". Cool isn't it?

[Bishop]

Eh? Why would you have to spam chastity if you don't have to spam MV?

Idk, you were the one on about covering a kd in chastity, not me.

The whole point is that chastity does too much damage for the cost and difficulty, something that's been repeated to you several times, and you have yet to respond to it. A minor adjustment to the rune cost will make 0 difference, because the whole point is that you don't really need to spam the spell at all. Completely stopping someone's population is powerful, and it shouldn't be almost as easy as getting a cb used to be (for any half decent a/m or t/m), it's ridiculous.

I see you, like Palem, don't read my posts either :(

[Palem]

Bishop: Making friends since July 2008 lol

[DjTeddySpin]

Did someone just make a veiled "do your job" post at me? I was unaware I was not entitled to an opinion here - in fact I know I'm entitled to one just as I am entitled to instantly ban people that tell me to "do my job". Cool isn't it?

Oh of course you're entitled to opinions! Posting and contribution doesn't seem to come hand in hand though.

[DHaran]

He doesn't have to do anything but moderate, so not sure what that "do your job" crap meant, lol.

[Bishop]

Ho Ho Ho - i dont have a sense of humour - you wont get another warning from me.

[DjTeddySpin]

He doesn't have to do anything but moderate, so not sure what that "do your job" crap meant, lol.

Correct me if I am wrong, he has contacts with the devs and most probably has a say in the changes? If he doesn't fine, I am not gonna waste my time on this either.

PS. i didn't tell him to 'do his job'. the sentence ended with a question mark and addressed to myself from the very start.

[Luc]

Idk, you were the one on about covering a kd in chastity, not me.

I see you, like Palem, don't read my posts either :(

I've read all your posts in this thread, and they're all variations on the theme "You can MV it" and "It's only super awesome if you also depop". Responses to those arguments are "MV is only a theoretical counter, because in practice it's infeasible" and "The op doesn't have to give you a tripple crown to be overpowered, because OP is about benefit vs costs".

The MV argument is silly, because it's ridiculously costly and ineffective to the degree where it's not really a counter at all. Ergo the MV argument is useless.

Chastity is both easy to cast and low cost in runes. The casting difficulty is what matters, because an increase in rune cost will have little to no effect when you never fail with the spell anyway, at least not when it's a small rune cost to start with (unlike for MV). Unless you're planning to increase the cost by a lot (and judging by how you seem to think chastity is rather crappy, you're not) it's not a solution. Start playing in warring kingdoms again and you won't enjoy how easy it is for them to keep you at 2 peasants per acre, something that shouldn't be easy at all, because it really does serious damage.

[Palem]

Correct me if I am wrong, he has contacts with the devs and most probably has a say in the changes? If he doesn't fine, I am not gonna waste my time on this either.

Bishop has just as much say in the changes as you do.

[DjTeddySpin]

The MV argument is silly, because it's ridiculously costly and ineffective to the degree where it's not really a counter at all. Ergo the MV argument is useless.

Exactly. And repeated many times.

Just MV.
Its like storms.
Just kidnap.
Runes are negligible
I don't feel chastity is op

These are the kind of posts that we all see in this thread. It provides absolutely zero explanation or statistics to prove anything. So far only Palem and a few others responded with any kind of detailed calculations or actually try to prove something.

[Ethan]

"OP is about benefit vs costs" - Luc, and others I think

What level? Does having to pick 1 of two races count as a cost? How much of a cost? Gnome used to have a built in cost because it was a fairly lame attacker, but you have to have some to be intel *****s - do you count that as a cost?

It sounds as though your argument is that there is a "right" choice about using chastity *if you can* (as in, if you can, use it). I'd counter the main cost is supposed to be offloaded into the choice of race that has access to it. I disagree with this method of balancing in general (in particular for large items like perfect intel or chastity), but some of it is necessary to give races their own flavor.


I'd also contend that the game benefits from greater strategic variety - hence the general good balance around NW gains, and sci curve works fairly well, and buildings are generally good. (If it takes a major in mathematics to get *approximations* of *some* building's relative strengths for *certain* provinces... I'd call that a pretty close call.) Whereas casting Fog, or MP, or Chastity, or PF if you can... is really just "duh". Even NS vs. prop vs. kidnap vs. steal has some interesting choices at times... but if you've got Fog, keep it up in war, and if you've got chastity, keep coverage in war, and always PF the chain target. Not a lot of interesting choices there.

I feel we can almost always rebalanced the races ok after fiddling with spells or other items like that - so get the other stuff, then (re)balance races as a last step.

[DjTeddySpin]

Bishop has just as much say in the changes as you do.

That very very assuring. Thanks.