rules on fake wars

[Bishop]

Who cares if mehul wasn't obvious? I'm telling you now. /yawn.

[DHaran]

does your 10 year old understand the intent of a war though? which answer is it, because i came up with 3 off the top of my head. Understanding a difference is one thing, not having anything to support a claim is another. FW is illegal because why? no reason. It's not in the rules that it's illegal, because, to me at least, the intent of war that Mehul put in the game is not obvious. It is implicit, sure, but new people won't know that. They'll see in the wiki the only thing about war is it's benefits. At that point most people think of the implications of the benefits and profits of war, motivations to go to war, since war is terrible. It is not obvious why war was put into this game. Does your 10 year old know why war was put into this game? That is what the rules speak of, not a difference of a fake and a real.

In the words of Emiya Shirou: There is no reason a fake cannot defeat a real"
^^ just like your post, Bishop, about your 10 year old, this quote has nothing to do with the topic, but it has 'fake' in it, so people might read in whatever they want.

I just read that whole post and determined you said exactly nothing.

[Palem]

does your 10 year old understand the intent of a war though? which answer is it, because i came up with 3 off the top of my head. Understanding a difference is one thing, not having anything to support a claim is another. FW is illegal because why? no reason. It's not in the rules that it's illegal, because, to me at least, the intent of war that Mehul put in the game is not obvious. It is implicit, sure, but new people won't know that. They'll see in the wiki the only thing about war is it's benefits. At that point most people think of the implications of the benefits and profits of war, motivations to go to war, since war is terrible. It is not obvious why war was put into this game. Does your 10 year old know why war was put into this game? That is what the rules speak of, not a difference of a fake and a real.

1.) It is in the rules, you're just choosing to question the legitimacy of such a ruling.
2.) Wars have a clear intention. Aside from the bonuses presented for hitting the kd you are at war with, there are various penalties for outside kds hitting into your war and there's penalties for you hitting outside your war. Science levels are limited, so it's not for pumping science. Dice and Explore are limited, so it's not for growing (at least in those senses). Questioning whether the "purpose" of a war is clear or not is a weak argument.
3.) It's not important why Mehul introduced war for a couple reasons. a) This isn't Mehul's game anymore and b) What matters is it's current intention.

[Nuriho]

1.) It is in the rules, you're just choosing to question the legitimacy of such a ruling.
2.) Wars have a clear intention. Aside from the bonuses presented for hitting the kd you are at war with, there are various penalties for outside kds hitting into your war and there's penalties for you hitting outside your war. Science levels are limited, so it's not for pumping science. Dice and Explore are limited, so it's not for growing (at least in those senses). Questioning whether the "purpose" of a war is clear or not is a weak argument.
3.) It's not important why Mehul introduced war for a couple reasons. a) This isn't Mehul's game anymore and b) What matters is it's current intention.

The thing is Palem, wars were added in this game with Mehul. The intention of war as programmed sure, then you have semantics of whose intention war is defined with. This is sean and Brian_'s game so it'd be theirs with that. But it's not in the rules. The rules clearly state in http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...647-Game-Rules that

2.e. Spirit of the Rules
Players attempting to manipulate rules and quirks of the game in ways obviously not intended may be subject to deletion. Because of their nature, these types of circumstances are considered on a case-by-case basis. Users should avoid actions they believe are against the spirit and intent of the game.
2.f. Fair & Honorable Play
The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.

yet what is meant by those? it's not clear enough for a precise definition. Where does it mention war? It mentions manipulate game in ways obviously not intended. But where does it state that wars were intended to beat up on other kingdoms? I thought wars were to help people grow, or maybe to have fun. Fake wars accomplish this, so .-. Besides, spirit of the rules says case-by-case and yet you want to carpet blanket all fake wars with no real mention.
Fair and honorable play mention war? maybe fake war can be construed, but with its current wording no. Fake war is not inappropriate language, manipulation of bug, nor act of deception/fraud.

your #2 Palem says a bunch of things but you succeed in ignoring my whole argument and the reason for fake wars, to limit being hit. If you grow a lot or if you don't want to be hit, going to war is the best solution, assuming the other kingdom wants what you want. Clear intention there for war would be to keep what acres you have to the highest degree while you get ready to perform at your best. VERY clear intention, but is it the devs intention for war? no idea, never said anywhere officially, like say, in the wiki about the rules or about war.
your #3, b) What matters is it's current intention., is what my whole thing is about. You're ignoring the intention for war as the way to go to war to limit hits on yourself. It's not in rules that limiting hits via war is disallowed since it IS my intention, maybe not the devs, but i don't know their intentions for war. All I know is that in the wiki it says that I have the ability to limit hits on me via war through negative gains.

Who cares if mehul wasn't obvious? I'm telling you now. /yawn.

You are just a moderator. Only person 'official' I've seen say that you're more is yourself. Means nothing. Yes, you claim to be a game admin. When were those invented? No literature on that. To the point, the rules are vague Bishop, and it's the rules you want to enforce. The law is semantics, and the rules are very vague. For all i know attacking you is not in the spirit of the rules and i can get punished for it. It's plain Tyranny.

[John Snowstorm]

Devs make the rules.

Frankly it doesn't matter what you think. They have very clearly told you NOW what the intention of the mechanic is and other use is abuse.

Even if it used to be an intended use of the mechanic, nowhere does it state that the devs can't change the intended functions of mechanics. They can change anything in the game and make any game action against the rules.

Changes to this Agreement and the Game

We reserve the right to modify this Agreement and any aspect of the Game, with or without prior notice. Your continued use of the Game following any revision to this Agreement constitutes your complete and irrevocable acceptance of any and all such changes.

[Ordray]

You are just a moderator. Only person 'official' I've seen say that you're more is yourself. Means nothing. Yes, you claim to be a game admin. When were those invented? No literature on that. To the point, the rules are vague Bishop, and it's the rules you want to enforce. The law is semantics, and the rules are very vague. For all i know attacking you is not in the spirit of the rules and i can get punished for it. It's plain Tyranny.

lmao I hadn't been reading this thread, but I might just have to go back if there are more gems like this one in here.

[ElusiveWitch]

Here's an idea for people like uhmmm ... some of the less understanding folk.

In big red letters put a Rule up that says ... "RULE: Fake war is from this point forward ...illegal and against game rules. It will get you X, Y, Z'd"

There. There's the rule for the less understanding folk ... should fix the problem, yes?

[UnBan Hurlin]

But that's what Nuriho is saying no where in the rule list does it state what is a fake war and penalty's for participating in one.

and "spirit of the game" has always been a bull**** excuse ........ remember black ops ? that was considered against "spirit of the game" ....... so was icq :P

[ElusiveWitch]

*slaps forehead* ... I'm out.

Bishop - Blessings to you. You're gonna need them!

[John Snowstorm]

But that's what Nuriho is saying no where in the rule list does it state what is a fake war and penalty's for participating in one.

and "spirit of the game" has always been a bull**** excuse ........ remember black ops ? that was considered against "spirit of the game" ....... so was icq :P

I remember black ops, that POS with terrible hit detection and laggy 'wanted' style shoot round corners bullets.

Roll on MWIII!

[Alsadius]

So 13 years later, fake wars are getting banned? Well then.

Frankly, I'm not sure I see the issue here. Were they too good? Were top KDs spending all their time in a FW, just to pump acres that way? Or did it just offend someone's sensibilities?

[UnBan Hurlin]

I remember black ops, that POS with terrible hit detection and laggy 'wanted' style shoot round corners bullets.

Roll on MWIII!

3 hours BF3 pre DL starts ............

[E_Boko]

lol ive used FW but if they are banned they are banned. jeez whats the whole argument for. find another way to pump now is all.

[DDodge]

Survive and adapt

[shy]

I dont mind fake wars but when big kingdoms abuse it & uses it to rape other kingdoms for land while hiding in fake wars, its not right.
Sanctuary Absalom is a pathetic excuse for a tag kingdom. Msged monarch and responsible province & get no reply & continue to bottom feed. I say we should delete the lot of them.