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Thread: New Anticheat Measure Going Live Today

  1. #646
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    I am completely missing the webbrowser footprint option to check authenticity/uniqueness of a person. The only people who would have a problem would be the ones that use ONE computer and even that could be circumvented by logging out/in with another usename (on windows at least). Seriously, browser footprints are 99% unique, look into it. http://panopticlick.eff.org/

    Wait.....Bishop, you said that this only affects 3% of the playerbase... How many of those players actually donated and/or bought credits? I can't see a cheater buying credits.....defies the entire purpose of cheating...
    Last edited by faegan; 08-12-2011 at 09:22.

  2. #647
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    Unless they are at war it won't affect them much. Out of war, other that those who actually are cheating, would expect interaction to be minimal. In war when its 25 provinces vs 25 provinces interaction is a lot more common and necessary and thats where the problems are.

  3. #648
    I like to post Landro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    It clearly said it would be mid age.
    My kingdom was lucky enough to have just left our war when the new system kicked in but others weren't so lucky. Giving people a fair warning would have been nice. Something like "we going to implement the new system on 01/01/2012" (or some other date.) That would have given people some time to prepare for it. Maybe delay their war plans or something. I get the feeling some people were caught in the middle of a war and suddenly found out they were sitting ducks because they could hit anybody.
    This is my province. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My province is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
    My province, without me, is useless. Without my province, I am useless.
    I must attack hard with my province. I must attack harder than my enemy who is trying to pk me. I must pk him before he pk's me. I will...

  4. #649
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfrogs View Post
    If I remember correctly he did have a "flagger" that if multiple accounts were logged into from a single IP they'd be flagged and banned, I could be mistaken though as it has been more than a few years.


    It would though. Though a heuristic method, most of it could be automated and very targetted at the people who log into their partners accounts. We can agree that most of the people that are mutli-ing are not that smart, and if they're using the whitelist, they know they're running a high chance of being caught. Through my system, if more than 60% of the logins are from the same place and pretty much the same time, it's most likely a multi. If there are multiple logins in extremely short time periods at multiple IPs, almost definitely a multi. It's not perfect, but I'm trying to salvage something that I really think is a integral part of the game and would be a shame to do away with if you're looking to expand the game population.

    Hear me out with my logic, we have entered into an era where gaming is extremely social (see Farmville, Mafia, Vampire Wars) and it is not uncommon to see people playing the same game as a means of joint entertainment. Utopia is very much so like those games where it isn't something you have to dedicate 24 hours a day to, but instead, just a few hours every few days is enough to have a successful experience. You're eliminating a HUGE segment of potential players by saying that siblings, spouses, housemates, roommates, dorm-mates, and anyone who wants to play at a coffee shop cannot play together effectively (or at least in the same kingdom.) I have introduced probably a dozen players to the game by saying, "Hey, there's an open spot in my kingdom, let's set up an account for you and I can help you get going." If this wasn't possible, that's a dozen people that would have never even heard of the game.

    Granted, my fix isn't eliminating the problem of whitelist abuse, but instead, it automates it in a heuristic fashion which should take a lot of the work off of the admins and would still smart target abusers of the system.


    I have no idea to be honest, but that's also my point. Instead of doing away with the whitelist, why not modify the multi detection for people on the whitelist without doing away with it all together. If you're on IRC at all, drop by #dontdropthesoap and shoot me a message. I'll be around and I'd love to chat more about this.
    Utopia may be very social but it is not in the same genre as mafia wars etc. Utopia is a competitive PVP game and having access to multiple accounts gives a massive advantage as they can directly influence each other in ways that make it impossible for legitimate players to compete.

    The system you propose has no validation of who is accessing an account and (more importantly) does not remove the value to be gained from illegal behaviour. By blocking interactions we are trying to remove this value. It's important not to forget the main reason we added this block, the real targets are multies/farms and xloggers. Unfortunately a legit players behaviour, at times, can be indistinguishable from these people. The big difference is that legit players can work around this and still have fun. For a multi not begin able to access a farm is a huge deal.

    I feel I should also point out that we do in fact have heuristics for cheat detection.

    Finally, having a whitelist was a mistake. We didn't like it from day one but people asked for it so it was added.I have no problem saying that we should never have gone near it.

    Quote Originally Posted by faegan View Post
    I can't see a cheater buying credits.....defies the entire purpose of cheating...
    If only it were that simple :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Landro View Post
    My kingdom was lucky enough to have just left our war when the new system kicked in but others weren't so lucky. Giving people a fair warning would have been nice. Something like "we going to implement the new system on 01/01/2012" (or some other date.) That would have given people some time to prepare for it. Maybe delay their war plans or something. I get the feeling some people were caught in the middle of a war and suddenly found out they were sitting ducks because they could hit anybody.
    I'm not sure about this - you can only really test it by warring so advance notice may not have had any effect.
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page |
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  5. #650
    Regular Byakuya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faegan View Post
    I am completely missing the webbrowser footprint option to check authenticity/uniqueness of a person. The only people who would have a problem would be the ones that use ONE computer and even that could be circumvented by logging out/in with another usename (on windows at least). Seriously, browser footprints are 99% unique, look into it. http://panopticlick.eff.org/

    Wait.....Bishop, you said that this only affects 3% of the playerbase... How many of those players actually donated and/or bought credits? I can't see a cheater buying credits.....defies the entire purpose of cheating...

    Why is this ignored?

  6. #651
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Because webbrowser footprint doesnt address the issue.
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  7. #652
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Because webbrowser footprint doesnt address the issue.
    It addresses as much of the issue as IP based blocks, but it narrows it down a bit. Best way still is to use a whitelist with mandatory credits which compensate for mod-efforts (time spent on verifying).

  8. #653
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    It wont stop people logging into each others accounts as it doesn't do anything to remove incentive.

    "Best way still is to use a whitelist with mandatory credits which compensate for mod-efforts (time spent on verifying). "

    We aren't interested in charging people to allow them to cheat, which is what this will result in.
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page |
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  9. #654
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    We aren't interested in charging people to allow them to cheat, which is what this will result in.
    Actually, this is exactly what you are doing. I recall one of you saying that we should get another IP address to play from if (for example) students or couples who play would like to be able to interact with their provinces. The only difference is that you aren't the one that receives the money, but the ISP.

    Perhaps reconsider your business model here; ads are nice, but people paying to play is better!

  10. #655
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Ok, I will ask the devs what they think of charging people for support, since you insist.
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  11. #656
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Ok, I will ask the devs what they think of charging people for support, since you insist.
    Simple model should be sufficient. You can charge initial small fee for one extra province from certain IP and then still differentiate between users that log the specific provinces, based on the browser footprint.
    I have no idea how much Utopia receives from GoogleAds but I suspect it to be sufficient to maintain server(s), bandwidth and perhaps a small fee for developers. Maybe get one person involved in verification of white-listed provinces for a small fee to compensate them....

  12. #657
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Actually, we'd have to charge a fee every time you logged in and every time you performed an action ingame.

    Spoofing user agents is trivial btw ;)
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  13. #658
    Veteran faegan's Avatar
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    Perhaps this is going off-topic, but:
    Every time? why?

  14. #659
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    To verify that it is you that is logging in.
    Support email: utopiasupport@utopia-game.com <- please use this and don't just PM me| Account Deleted/Inactive | Utopia Facebook Page |
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  15. #660
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    Dear Bishop can we have the block removed on intra kd attacks? we are trying to raze someone out and the block triggered an access denied lol. Personally i dont think intra kds should trigger it

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