#2 province grande mucca deleted

[Palem]

In one thread your pulling the innocent card because you couldn't break him. Now you're playing the "I was bluffing" card.

One or the other.

[Bishop]

I never referred to it as a fake war? That looks like a request for war with a proposal of potential bluff terms.

Wrong quote sunshine

"And who says he wasn't going to hit the guy anyway?"
^^ Ryan.

Again, out of context.

Interested in a war? It could be beneficial for both of us... I'll agree to not hit you and then we're both free to bottomfeed and grow while our kds duke it out ;)

[I_am_Spartacus]

Encouraging people to break the games rules is actionable.

Which rule am I encouraging him to break? Is warring not allowed anymore?

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.php?title=Game_Rules

[Bishop]

Stop squirming.

[I_am_Spartacus]

In one thread your pulling the innocent card because you couldn't break him. Now you're playing the "I was bluffing" card.

One or the other.

Uh those are the same card. Not being able to break him is exactly why it's a bluff war term. Not being in dragon range is exactly why it's a bluff war term.

If you can't understand that then wow.

[DHaran]

Allow me to respond, since you seem keen to move away ;) Stating " i am going to break teh games rules (eg make multiple accounts and attack you)" will result in action whether you do it or not.

Using clear and well known rules as an example of how to break an unclear and unknown rule is fail. FW and prov NAPs are not the same thing and never have been. Feel free to announce that prov NAPs are now considered a FW, prior to this they weren't, then you have the precedent for deletions.

[Blaine]

I guess there is reason why my question won't get an answer. There is none that would make sense.

[I_am_Spartacus]

I still haven't got an answer to this: Why was deletion better solution to, lets say, warning or suspension? What did anybody gain from ruining someones 3 months of work over such a minor offense, that ppl have been doing for years. My kingdom is now dying because you took only thing keeping us going. We have thread in the forum "what role/race will you play next age" and already some have answered "I won't be here next age". (I'm from the kingdom Astrael was deleted from)

It wasn't a better solution. That just isn't a topic of interest because the case for any action is flimsy and whimsical in the first place.

[Bishop]

Using clear and well known rules as an example of how to break an unclear and unknown rule is fail. FW and prov NAPs are not the same thing and never have been. Feel free to announce that prov NAPs are now considered a FW, prior to this they weren't, then you have the precedent for deletions.

1 prov or 25, we dont care. Arranging a war where you dont hit is fake.

Blaine - Its been asked and answered already, the first infraction and punishment was always going to be harsh.

[ZodZilla]

Using clear and well known rules as an example of how to break an unclear and unknown rule is fail. FW and prov NAPs are not the same thing and never have been. Feel free to announce that prov NAPs are now considered a FW, prior to this they weren't, then you have the precedent for deletions.

This.

[Bishop]

Yawn, nn folks.

[DHaran]

Interested in a war? It could be beneficial for both of us... I'll agree to not hit you and then we're both free to bottomfeed and grow while our kds duke it out ;)

If that is indeed Ryan's exact message, I still don't see anything about breaking rules in there. He is agreeing to not do something that he can't do anyway, so how is that a problem? Nothing about this will ever make sense to me, because there is no sense behind it. So you have an agreement to not do something that is already not possible and not in the interest of either of them, and you have a war that without that agreement would be viewed as legal.

I must still be missing something.

1 prov or 25, we dont care. Arranging a war where you dont hit is fake.

Both were hitting the enemy provinces they could break. You entire case is flawed from top to bottom.

[Blaine]

Well, my point here is that they would acknowledge the error made here and do better in the future. To me that's all that matters now. To me this whole thing is beginning to look like "Hey, it's our game, we are the tyrants here and we do things simple because we can and don't care what community things of it." It's quite sad since this game is much about the community after all..

Some wise man once said "Everybody make mistakes, but those who learn from them are better for it" Admission of ones mistakes is a virtue.

[DHaran]

Until this point, everything I can recall has pointed to game mechanic abuse being subject to suspension and account abuse (xlog, multi) being subject to deletion. Vacation mode abuse is pretty similar to FW abuse, yet all of those have resulted only in suspensions. Why was this case subject to immediate deletion?

We should set a standard for how abuses get handled, not decide on the spot which way to go.

[ThrEma]

It's all my fault! I am Astarael, monarch of the other ghettokingdom, and you can all blame this on me!
I was the one using this war to farm, I was the one using this war for protection against Force.
While I really wanted my kingdommates to get some nice warexperience, I let them take some beating while I quietly grow for my own personal achievements.
It all started when I was fighting Hall of Force. Of course I didn't stand a chance, getting ganged 1k+ acres a day.
I can retaliate, but only once each day to stay in normal relationship. When my money ran out and barren lands began piling up, I know I couldn't hold on much longer.
So when grande mucca offered me a war, I saw my way out. Even better when he offered a nap between us.
That way I can rebuild in the war. As this is my first time being a king, I don't know anything about agreements.
I had to learn about cease fires the hard way this age. After many broken ones Anri eventually told me about the eoa cease fires.
So I didn't know how an agreement in war would work and wished grande mucca would hold his word to it.
I even asked him if I needed to tell my kingdommates to nap him, just so he wouldn't hit me.
Because he's out of range anyway it wouldn't matter in this war and his reply was also the same: no need.
The war time was set at 72-96 hours and we started hitting forth and back making good way to war.
After I got the warbutton, I double tapped Force once last time and entered war.
At first I was only thinking of rebuilding, because I am pretty out of range.
After setting up some warorders for my kingdommates, I really hoped we can get some warexperience and maybe even win this war.
But after seeing grande mucca quadruple tap someone getting quite some gains, I started to feel greedy.
I never thought people could get so much gains hitting someone so far out of net worth range.
So I also started tapping the chaintarget. I was amazed about the gains, thinking I might even get second place in orc this age. (without exploring or paradising!)
But most important was to get big and get out of range from Force. They were being waved at that moment and I saw my chance to get some safety if I can outgrow them.
But no, I was violating the rules.
I used this war for protection.
I used this war for farming.
And big chance it was Force reporting this war, because of me double tapping them.
So I am truly sorry Ryan. I played a big part causing your deletion.

I have accepted my deletion, but if it's possible, give Ryan his account back. He was just having an honest and fair war.

You don't need to be sorry Astarael. I don't see it as your fault.
You used the war for protection, but according to Golden Maw, you guys were actively looking for war.
The protection is just a bonus for warring. For example, if a kingdom has double hostility and enters war with 1, they get protection against the other.
That's normal and if you are actively participating, then it's not a fake war.
You used the war to farm? Well, making no attacks at all would be more considered a fake war.
You participated in the war, hitting the chaintarget. The growth is natural.
It is grande muccas offer that caused your deletion.
You can't break him and as an orc, I doubt you could do any ops. So the agreement has no impact on your waractions at all.
The only thing is, would you have gone into war with him without the deal? Because that's what it's all about, to be able to grow with zero risks in this war.
But you were amazed by the wargains, right? So you would have thought grande mucca was out of range to serious hurt you anyway.
That means the deal only played a small role into entering war with them. (my assumption)
And not to mention he could have broken the agreement afterall, backstabbing like some people said. And it was a 2 province nap, so their t/ms can really hurt you.
So that was in noway a zero risks free to grow situation for you.
And ultimately you got deleted because of accepting someones waroffer. Tricked into war? More like tricked into death.
I guess you are pretty new to this game and to be the first deleted for something this grey under fake war is sad.
Hope you won't quit the game though.