#2 province grande mucca deleted

[KuhaN]

nuahk it doesn't matter if the agreement they had was something the devs want to take action on going forward, it isn't a FW, and it wasn't announced they'd take action on it. What is this pumping freely crap people keep saying? Neither prov was safe to pump freely, they were fighting real wars, lol.

Bleh, im going to sleep. You win. Good night.

[Bishop]

You do understand that we're just venting at this point right? Bishop has made it clear that he just wants to bang his chest and wave his junk - there will be no reversal, there is no goal towards that cause. To that end, there is no case to me made. Personally I'm more interested in the precedence this sets and the implied BS.

That implies a level of involvement in this situation from me that doesn't exist.

[Godly]

I think we should discuss this some more, guys. 26 pages for one deleted noob isn't enough.

[Mansoor]

I don't believe it but I am going to support Bishop here.

how in the name of Allah can you be discussing this?

What has happened here. There are two big provinces, Ryan want crown, he has a this 8k acres or friends or whatever it is. They have a NAP. Ryan tell his shell kd to wave the orcs kd. Orc kd retals back and declares. Both orc and Ryan farming each others kd helping Ryan and the orc to even grow further.

Ask your selves this. My kingdom with a 10k acres province next age with 24 1k acres province wars my best friends kd which is 10k acres and rest are 1k acres. We start to war but me and my friend are napped and start hitting the small provinces and quad tap bottomfeed. Is this ok? Of course not, this is exactly what happened. Finally devs took some action to this cheating.

I would love to war my friends kd with a cow nap, and my kingdoms mate would accept it too as they get a BIG FAT cow and can grow back the acres loss. That is the whole point on winning, shift the acres upwards as much as you can so that small provinces can whore.

To see so many people including moderators defending Ryan and that other persons act is disgraceful and they should get rid of their moderator status asap. As Moderators you should see what is best for the game, not what is best for your friends.

What you Palem and Dharan are saying is that Rage of Abs and Fury of Abs can war eachother and still have cow nap, shifting acres up? Seriously???

Abs propaganda as its best....

[Scavenger]

Meh... the point is the provs had >50% of kd's nw wich makes them absolutely decisive (see also: automatic monarchy). If they NAP and war it's automaticly fake since the majority of both kds NW is NAPed and doesn't participate. No didn't read the thread.

[Scontan]

I don't believe it but I am going to support Bishop here.

how in the name of Allah can you be discussing this?

What has happened here. There are two big provinces, Ryan want crown, he has a this 8k acres or friends or whatever it is. They have a NAP. Ryan tell his shell kd to wave the orcs kd. Orc kd retals back and declares. Both orc and Ryan farming each others kd helping Ryan and the orc to even grow further.

Ask your selves this. My kingdom with a 10k acres province next age with 24 1k acres province wars my best friends kd which is 10k acres and rest are 1k acres. We start to war but me and my friend are napped and start hitting the small provinces and quad tap bottomfeed. Is this ok? Of course not, this is exactly what happened. Finally devs took some action to this cheating.

I would love to war my friends kd with a cow nap, and my kingdoms mate would accept it too as they get a BIG FAT cow and can grow back the acres loss. That is the whole point on winning, shift the acres upwards as much as you can so that small provinces can whore.

To see so many people including moderators defending Ryan and that other persons act is disgraceful and they should get rid of their moderator status asap. As Moderators you should see what is best for the game, not what is best for your friends.

What you Palem and Dharan are saying is that Rage of Abs and Fury of Abs can war eachother and still have cow nap, shifting acres up? Seriously???

Abs propaganda as its best....

Just as unlikely for Mansoor to agree with bishop...

+1

[DHaran]

I don't believe it but I am going to support Bishop here.

how in the name of Allah can you be discussing this?

What has happened here. There are two big provinces, Ryan want crown, he has a this 8k acres or friends or whatever it is. They have a NAP. Ryan tell his shell kd to wave the orcs kd. Orc kd retals back and declares. Both orc and Ryan farming each others kd helping Ryan and the orc to even grow further.

Ask your selves this. My kingdom with a 10k acres province next age with 24 1k acres province wars my best friends kd which is 10k acres and rest are 1k acres. We start to war but me and my friend are napped and start hitting the small provinces and quad tap bottomfeed. Is this ok? Of course not, this is exactly what happened. Finally devs took some action to this cheating.

I would love to war my friends kd with a cow nap, and my kingdoms mate would accept it too as they get a BIG FAT cow and can grow back the acres loss. That is the whole point on winning, shift the acres upwards as much as you can so that small provinces can whore.

To see so many people including moderators defending Ryan and that other persons act is disgraceful and they should get rid of their moderator status asap. As Moderators you should see what is best for the game, not what is best for your friends.

What you Palem and Dharan are saying is that Rage of Abs and Fury of Abs can war eachother and still have cow nap, shifting acres up? Seriously???

Abs propaganda as its best....

Newsflash, Palem and I are forum mods, not game support. We don't have to agree with anything, we just have to enforce forum rules. Not that hard of a concept that some people can't seem to grasp.

As for the rest of your post, as has been said many times, the devs taking action on this is not the main issue, it's that they took action on something that is not a fake war and called it a fake war. They deleted someone for something nobody knew was wrong and has been common for years. Deletion on the first offense in this scenario is the problem. It is not much different than vacation mode abuse and that will only get you suspended.

[protector]

Out of curiosity; would the people defending Ryan here, have made the same hassle for Hellrazor, if this would've happened to him? (Everyone knows he was doing the same thing when he was ghettoing)

I understand people have their opinion, but I fail to see why people continue to repeat themselves over and over and over again, while it was already said the decision stays as it is. I can see both sides having good arguments, but it wont change anything I believe.
You may as well speak to the wall closest to you; it'll have the same effect as posting here.

[Syntico]

Absalomalaikum prot~

[DHaran]

I don't know Ryan very well, so it being him has nothing to do with it for me. I would have made the same arguments for anyone, just because I think the confusion this created needs to be addressed, and the reaction was too harsh. Of course the decision won't be changed, but I think it should be clarified and handled differently. Suspension for VM abuse and deletion for FW abuse is a glaring difference in response to similar actions.

[E_Boko]

wow what garbage. nice to see the direction this game is going in

[vball23]

IMHO, this boils down to whether or not this scenario was already defined, even loosely, as against the rules. If it was, then the deletion is justified, end of story.

If not, then this action is akin to passing a law against something and then arresting people who did that something before the law was passed.

Also, you can't do something and then claim "I didn't know it was wrong." It is our obligation in society, and in this game, to know what is right and what it wrong. Again, it helps if the rules are clearly defined.

[Luc]

Maybe a real world example of something similar occurring with and without an agreement.
In business, if 2 companies decide to independently arrive at the same price to set their competing goods at for sale, then there is nothing illegal about that action, correct? Even if they stay at that same price forever, it's still legal because they're not working together to keep it there.

You see, if the first part of the example occurs (they independently decide on the same price (or there about)) it is completely legal, however a simple e-mail, letter, meeting, or phone call between the 2 companies in which they agree on a price for their competing products makes the same thing illegal.

Now, back to Utopia. If the 2 provinces hadn't intended to hit as part of their war strategy or hadn't been able to hit one another (I believe that it was said that neither could break the other, but I may have misread that) and had simply gone to war without sharing and agreeing that they would not do so, then their war would have been ruled a legitimate war. However, that's not what happened, if what I gathered from the few posts that I read is indeed correct.

Basically this + how many provs got deleted = all you need to know.

No, it's not really a fake war when it's just 2 provinces doing it toward each other, but that's just semantics. They got deleted because the devs don't want to promote using wars the way the cows did. They made an agreement that's against the spirit of the game, and got punished harshly for it. If they hadn't, people would immediately start thinking of ways they could do the same thing but cover their asses at the same time. Ryan probably didn't deserve getting deleted, but it's not nearly as controversial as some people try to make it (like Realest has pointed out several times already).

And also, please stop asking for clear rules etc. You all know it's impossible to set rigid rules for what's allowed and not allowed. It never works, because all situations are different, and need to be judged differently. It doesn't take much for anyone to figure out what's risky and not.

Also, stop acting like you think you know everything just because you've read a thread about it. The devs, and Bishop, have shown several times that it's their policy not to hand out all the information underlying their decisions. Bishop often leaves stuff out for that reason, even if not doing it would help him defend himself. Try to be objective.

[protector]

I don't know Ryan very well, so it being him has nothing to do with it for me. I would have made the same arguments for anyone, just because I think the confusion this created needs to be addressed, and the reaction was too harsh. Of course the decision won't be changed, but I think it should be clarified and handled differently. Suspension for VM abuse and deletion for FW abuse is a glaring difference in response to similar actions.

Well, possibly a better clarification wouldn't be bad. However, there are so many details to consider, that you'd have to include all of them. If you overlook one and someone abuses that one thing, you can't do anything about it.
I suppose Ryan has a point saying he couldn't break and wasn't in dragonrange and therefor offering them as terms, but I'm quite sure dev's are unaware wether he was being serious or wether it was just a sneaky attempt to get himself a war.

This isn't the first time though that we go from allowing one thing to another. VM abuse was done before without being actioned, and then suddenly it was.
The difference though is that VM abuse got provinces suspended and this got them deleted. I think a suspension would have sufficed as well... to broadcast a message that such things aren't tolerated.

[I_am_Spartacus]

I suppose Ryan has a point saying he couldn't break and wasn't in dragonrange and therefor offering them as terms, but I'm quite sure dev's are unaware wether he was being serious or wether it was just a sneaky attempt to get himself a war.

There's plenty of messages sent out to previous potential wars with fake terms in my messages and 2 prior wars based off of bluff terms from those messages. It would not be hard to go back a few more pages into my ingame msgs and see that. So it would be very easy for them to realize this was "just a sneaky attempt to get himself a war"