About 3.8 liters per gallon, in my area it's roughly .97 a litre. I understand that we don't pay so much for it but I know our minimum wage is lower in my area.
I would figure out the difference but I have kids screeching over the volume of DBZ. :P
About 3.8 liters per gallon, in my area it's roughly .97 a litre. I understand that we don't pay so much for it but I know our minimum wage is lower in my area.
I would figure out the difference but I have kids screeching over the volume of DBZ. :P
Last edited by flutterby; 11-03-2012 at 22:05.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Originally Posted by VT2
<Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
<Bishop> We are just incompatible
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obviously you people that dont live in the US have no clue how many welfare programs we have here and what amount money it costs people. There are over 40million people on food stamps. Don't get me wrong, I understand people need a hand every once in a while but people live off this their whole life. Another thing you ignorant people have no clue is about the tax structure in the US. Over 48% of the people contribute NOTHING to income taxes and a lot of them actually get a REFUND even though they contribute NOTHING. Our corporate income tax rate is the HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. The government even taxes you and family when YOU DIE(aka a death tax). We pay approximately .48/gal of TAX to the federal government who do NOTHING but cause oil companies problems. Also, you people talking about "alternative energy" it is not feasible and cost twice as much if not more. Let me say this very clear for you ignorant people.....the GOVERNMENT, especially the current administration is doing NOTHING but making things HARDER for people and is trying to turn the US into Greece. Debate me with facts to prove me wrong NOT opinion. If you can.
Oh and Stoffi...you are so full of s**t about if you are born into poverty you will stay there. People born into poverty here CHOOSE to stay there and game the system. In what country do you know where someone in poverty has a flat screen TV hanging on the wall, driving around in a Cadillac carrying a cell phone. Yeah, sounds like poverty to me. Hard work and personal responsibility will get you out of poverty. Have facts please instead of conjecture and just flat out ignorance.
Last edited by Azartyn; 11-03-2012 at 22:42.
You disgrace your American fellows and help build up the stereotype the world has about Americans, the stereotype of the ignorant cowboy. "Who cares about knowledge, eh? We are the best anyways"
As Flutterby says, what about those that work two jobs and still have to go on welfare? There's 12.8 million unemployed people in the States, most of them unwillingly unemployed. 22% of all children in the US are poor children, despite having parents who work their arses off with 2 jobs and a wage no Western European would touch. I'd like to see you tell them that they have a choice.
In addition, The official poverty measure has been criticized for not accounting for several factors that can affect a family's economic well-being and for not having been updated, except for inflation, for four decades. Aka, the real figure is probably a lot higher.
The US can only be compared with former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe in this.
The notion about poor people being lazy was a term that lived through the Dark Ages and only just disappeared in the 19th century. But for people without history, it's hard to learn from past mistakes. Poor people in the US work several jobs but the minimum wage is just too low, they can't afford proper food, they can't afford healthcare, they can't afford to educate their children. What hope do they have? Their children will most likely end up in the same situation as themselves because you have to PAY to go to uni, and they are not likely to finish High School.
In Norway, university is free, you get 1100 dollars per month in scholarship/loan(you get the scholarship only if you pass the exams) by the government, investing in your education so that you may provide for it when you are finished, and help Norway prosper. We have no minimum wage but I don't know about any jobs which pay less than 20 dollars per hour, thus making the "poor" able to stay with us in society, paying taxes, buying goods, fueling the economy, lowering crime, etc.
We don't have crime except for junkies, Eastern Europeans gangs/groups who visit and certain immigrant groups who rape our daughters and rob our sons.
NO ONE CHOOSES to stay in poverty. NO ONE! It's a myth existing in your head and in many Americans' heads. Those of us who know a bit about society and history can see further than our own noses, not repeating the errors of those before us again and again, as you are.
And yes, many people don't pay enough taxes in the US. I'm sure you've heard about the Buffet Tax which Obama is trying to impose. The fact that Buffet's secretary has to pay a lot more than Buffet(in relative terms) is just wow....
Also, you don't know a lot about other countries if you think taxation is bad in the US. E.g. taxation of the dead is quite normal, and your company taxes are NOT high.
Hard work and personal responsibility will NOT get you out of poverty and poverty is now at its highest in a long time. They just need some social mobility.
That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.
America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.
ABS vs Rangers
Yes, it will be harder to succeed, but not impossible, so it's not a myth.That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.
America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.
Imo, America is the greatest country ever.
Yes, all great countries fall down eventually. That's something we'll have to deal with in the future if it's inevitable.
And the "99% of the population" bit is where the problem lies. Survival of the fittest buddy, and the unfit die. There is a population crisis going on in the planet, obviously Earth will not be able to sustain billions of people for too long. Better get off your ass and start acting, instead of wasting your time on here *****ing.
It's a cruel world we live in.
"Go back to the gym because you f'king suck at utopia, noob." -Godly
My classic black theme for Utopia - Updated 5/13/15
Greatest strategy thread/question of all-time.
Natural Selection nuts make me laugh.
They watch all those action movies and then figure that the fitness of someone is measured by how well they would survive in the jungle with a spear (or some modern variation).
I wonder how geniuses like Einstein or Newton would have fared under those standards.
If you look at some of the greatest systems on the planet (the human body included), they include parts that could not survive on their own, but that thrive as a group.
Isolationism was never our strong suit. Hundreds of species fare way better as lone wolves than we do.
Our most significant technical or social advances are the fruit of contributions from hundreds of individuals.
Yes, there is a natural selection, but where you err is in it's scope. Survival for a specie as social as human beings is not measured at the individual level, but at a group level.
Can we get our act together, capitalize everyone's strengths and help them overcome their weaknesses?
When someone that is a valuable member of your society needs a hand, will you prop him up or laugh in his face and call him weak?
First of all, you have no idea what I'm doing so you can't rightly assume that I'm sitting on my ass doing nothing (my profession does require a lot of sitting however so I'll make you right on the first half of your statement).
Second, debating about my viewpoints is a lot different from *****ing.
Last edited by Magn; 13-03-2012 at 20:58.
So im supposed to help people that cannot help themselves? No thanks. And those technological innovations came from less than 1% of the population.
I recommend reading this book by Ayn Rand: "Atlas Shrugged".
After you finish reading it come back to me, it might take you awhile though. Remember to read the entire book, not just a page and then be judgemental about it because you didnt agree with the first page.
Also, one last thing, if i deem a person is valuable to me and to society then obviously i would help this person. However, the problem is that i dont see too many people as valuable to society or to myself.
Would i ever give money to a homeless beggar on the streets? Never in my life.
Last edited by KuhaN; 13-03-2012 at 21:12.
"Go back to the gym because you f'king suck at utopia, noob." -Godly
My classic black theme for Utopia - Updated 5/13/15
Greatest strategy thread/question of all-time.
Yes and no. The top of the line innovation, yes.
But if you add up the sum of all innovations (great and small) that allows us to do things like build city buses, bridges or create operating systems, then you can include 10% at the very least.
And I wouldn't diss out the remainder either.
You need people to do things like cleanup the streets, build your house, deliver mail, etc, etc. Without people to fulfill those functions, "great thinkers" would be bogged down by a lot of low level chores and wouldn't be able to "invent" anything.
Dude, I need to read at least 4 more technical books just to get my work done with the degree of polish that want, not to mention a long list of books to read for my own personal curiosity and self-improvement.
I don't agree with laissez-faire capitalism. Never have. Never will.
1200 pages is a lot of reading for something you fundamentally disagree with.
Most philosophers I've read so far have imparted their philosophy quite well in far fewer pages.
And perhaps that is the problem... a very deeply rooted pessimism embodied by the devaluation of the worth of your own race.
The idea that you should never give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but rather demand upfront that they produce something of value or be worthless.
If you take this philosophy to it's logical conclusion, you might as well throw babies off cliffs, because they won't produce anything of value for quite some time and there is no guarantee that they ever will.
I don't see how such an attitude would inspire future generations to be the best they can be.
I've never felt inspired by it.
People need to believe in something greater than themselves.
Why do you think organized religion has worked so well?
Last edited by Magn; 18-03-2012 at 07:05.
I'm glad to see you are not that naive.
It IS harder to succeed in the US than in most other Western countries, thus robbing the country of its former slogans saying how easy it is to be selfmade. Upwards mobility can be extremely difficult in the US, unlike e.g. Norway where everyone got the same chances of education and NON-poverty(except if your parents are heroin addicts/plain bad).
So yeah, it is a MYTH that the US is so much easier to make it in than in other countries. I'd never work in the US ever because of the poor employment conditions(and that's often the general opinion), and I will soon be having a MA in English and a teacher's license.
Caaaaalm down....
22% of all children in the US grow up in poverty, yes, and it would seem as if your ignorance is coming out here. Poor by US standards, not African standards. And in Africa, even the poor got cell phones... Also, as I said, millions of millions of Americans work several jobs, they work around the clock and they spend their money on FOOD for their family. Your picture of the poor man in the US has no roots in reality, you live in the 19th century claiming the poor waste aaaaall their money on luxury goods and are poor because they "choose to be".
I reckon you are around 16-20 years old or something, but my advice to you is to go to University when you are old enough and volunteer for a poor-aid program or something, so that you may see how it really is.
Keep your legs closed you say, but the Republicans are against prevention and abortions. Prevention and abortion is quite possibly the best crime/poverty fighter out there because most of the babies aborted are "unwanted" and for a reason. Around 15-20 years after the US made abortion legal, huge results on the crime statistics were seen, as in Australia and Romania as well.
The US economy is in as much negative balance as certain European countries, but can survive it much better.
1) Get your facts straight. The top 5% pay 58.7%(2009) of all income taxes. That just goes to show the huge social differences that exist in the US, a class divided society reminding us about the UK early 20th century. (If you know anything about that)
50% pay very little because they don't earn much money. I was hoping that would ring some bells with you, but apparently not....
2) That's just how it is, and why prevention and abortion must be made available. It will cost less to give it freely than to let the children be born into poverty and crime. It's that like here as well, people coming from poor conditions are often the ones getting babies early.
3) Well, those poor people aren't just going to sit on their arses all day long. They will get jobs(jobs paying more than 6 dollars, which is useless), commit less crime due to less need and their children will get a much, much better start to society and have a much better chance of growing up to be something else than a trailer trash criminal.
Yes, the Buffet tax. He never paid 33% tax, his company did and the money stays with company. If he wants money from the company, he should pay normal taxes like everyone else.
I'm just glad I wasn't born into a lower half American family. I would never be able to go to University and make something out of myself and I would probably end up in some poor arse 6 dollars per hour job, if even that, whilst living in a trailer or a dump.
Also, fix your attitude. You strike me as a young, angry boy who lacks the ability to debate. Stop calling people names, stop using caps, stop debating like a 12 year old.
Not all ofc, but numbers don't lie. Just a few years ago, there was a survey amongst FOX NEWS viewers whether or not they believed Iraq had WMD's. This was many years after the invasion ofc, only a few years ago. Somewhere around 2/3 thought Iraq had WMD's....
Hail ignorance and they seem to vote Republican.
It's true enough for Norwegian media to print it in newspapers. Also, as I said before this, other surveys suggest the very same thing, 50% of Americans aren't very bright.
Also, please prove YOUR claims. In addition, youtube is no source unless the video is made by a credible source.
Ofc Americans care about religion. A poll about presidential candidates showed that the WORST possible thing a presidential candidate could be was ATHEIST, which was worse than being gay. (And let's face it, many, many republicans hate gays really bad) Also, the republican presidential campaign can be summarised in 3 words, God, Gays and Guns. It seems to be a competition in who is the most Christian.
So yeah, religion is essential.
Keeping people in poverty will only limit yourselves. Let their children have a real chance to grow up and be something and you will see a huge difference benefitting everyone, even the rich.
Last edited by stoffi; 14-03-2012 at 19:43.
ABS vs Rangers
We need to discuss on IRC or MSN or something. Would be interesting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<Bishop> I don't dislike Ezzerland
<Bishop> We are just incompatible
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<~Palem> I read that as "snuffleupegas gropes Palem" twice lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still think it's an age issue (regarding the religion bit).
"Go back to the gym because you f'king suck at utopia, noob." -Godly
My classic black theme for Utopia - Updated 5/13/15
Greatest strategy thread/question of all-time.
you know, you have many claims and many suggestions, you want to know why Americans are the way they are? They look to their government to fix things and rely on them to solve their problems; despite the fact, we are a community resolved around volunteerism and god. We are very giving and happy place, if you only look at the negatives of us as a generality then its all you can comprehend to see, compensating to assume that in that 50% the other 50% is similar and the same to one and alike. While this brings room for rebuttal and opposition I suggest and ask for an opinion. But i would just guess your common knowledge of our country will just put this into the back burner yet again and you be looking like the almighty brain you are. Situational awareness is a difference compared to the studies and smarts of books and universities; moreover, just like you stated before not all Americans have the opportunity of free education so in a way. I feel as though you say we just lay down and accept our fates and die slowly while letting our government run our lives, which is what america has come to. so tell me, is this what you think?
Lets address this issue by issue on what you think you know.
I will say you are right that it is harder now to "self made" but not for the reasons you want to cite. You have no idea of the tax structure in this country although you think you know everything about it. People will not start a new business in this country because the government has regulated the people into the ground and the tax structure does not generate business, it stifles it and causes what you see happening today known as "outsourcing" Also, the manufacturing in the country that used to be here no longer exists because the unions have priced themselves out of the market. (See Carter years when he started importing Chinese steel) but I don't see you spouting anything about the way the Chinese treat/pay their people. Nope, not a peep.
I don't have time to give you a real US history lesson..not some re-written liberal professor history version.
Funny how millions and millions of Americans work several jobs when the real unemployment rate in this country is around 15%. Not Obama's fake numbers. Go look up the difference between U3 and U6 numbers and compare. So your statement is a bald faced lie but thats what you liberals do. Facts suck for you people. Here is a link since I doubt you will actually take the time to look it up.
http://portalseven.com/employment/un...nt_rate_u6.jsp
I am 47 years old and I have seen more things in my life than your ignorant, insulting, little liberal mind has ever seen. You do not know me so don't be condescending you snot nose little brat. What pi$$es me off is people like you who THINK they know everything about this county and haven't set foot in it but only watch bought and paid for news stations like MSNBC or CNN.
Again, your ignorance makes me laugh. And now I see exactly why you are the way you are. You are one of the bleeding heart liberals. The republican are not against prevention or abortions. They are against tax dollars paying for it. The religious conservative is against it but there are democrats that are religious and against it as well. Condoms cost $1.00 and Wal-Mart, CVS you can get birth control pills for $9-15 a month. If you cant afford one of those two methods you dont need to be having kids.
Wait...you want to associate crime and abortion. OMG! you are a liberal.
Why are you using numbers two years old?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...res/50480226/1
The 10% of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70% of federal income taxes, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Oh, so he just shat his billions of dollars? He worked for it and then invested it...TWO different types of taxes. Wage tax and capital gains tax. taxed twice. Also, why didn't you read my statement about his company Berkshire Hathaway fight the IRS to pay $1b in back taxes? Because it didnt fit your side of the debate. Actually..its Ignorance.
This statement right here shows your total ignorance of the US tax code. And your liberal little mind did not read what I wrote. Please do so before making yourself look foolish again. Actually because you have a hard time with comprehension I will sum it up. He was taxes TWICE on the money.
The US spends more on education per student then any other country in the world. So what you think you know you do not.
The democrats started a war on poverty back in the 1960 and since the income gap has gotten worse. Again, you know nothing of which you speak.
How do we spend so much? In 2005, $620 billion was spent on more than eighty welfare programs funded by federal, state, and local governments. But low-income persons receive benefits from other government programs that are not designated as welfare programs. Most notably, they receive benefits from Social Security, Medicare, and the public school system.
It?s equal to the total before-tax cash income of middle-income households. That?s right, we transfer to the low-income population an amount equal to the entire income of middle-income households, that is, households in the middle fifth (40th to 60th percentile) of the American income distribution.
If a trillion dollars were simply given to those counted as poor by the federal government (37 million in 2005), it would amount to $27,000 per person. That?s $81,000 for a family of three, HIGHER than the median income of all American families, and far greater than the poverty threshold of $15,577.
Again, Stoffi, these are 2005 before Obama put us $5T more in debt. I will tell you something you really need to think hard about. - Liberalism always generates the opposite of its stated intent. By the looks of things you want the government to take of people cradle to grave and that is not what this country was founded on. Give a man a hand, not a hand out which is exactly what the democrats is this country have done for the last 70 years. Got people dependent on them so they keep buying votes.
I will say this again for your closed mind. The government in this country IS the problem.
Last edited by Azartyn; 17-03-2012 at 22:54.
Stoffi, you do not have your facts straight whatsoever. 22% of children in this country are in poverty? Really? They have flat screeen TVs, cell phones, their parents have TWO CARS. Poverty huh? Really? How about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS and if you cant afford to have a baby KEEP YOUR DAMN LEGS CLOSED.
Again, have FACTS not what you THINK is correct.
Oh and if the European countries are SO much better then why are they all going bankrupt and trying to implement austerity measures? Greece, Portugal, Spain, France, England? Any of them ring a bell. What happens when you take someone's freebies away? They riot and throw Molotov cocktails at police officers. The ONLY strong country in the European union right now is Germany.
Stoffi...FACT - The US DOES have the HIGHEST CORPORATE tax rate in the WORLD. It used to be Japan but they just lowered theirs. Please get the truth before you make yourself look more foolish. I live here, I used to own a business here and I KNOW what I paid in taxes.
Let me ask you a few simple questions Stoffi, since you're such a genius and have the solution to all the worlds problems....
1. Why do 50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax and the top 5% pay 80% of ALL the taxes?
2. Why do single women keep having babies if they cant afford the ones they have now?
3. If so many people are in poverty...whats going to happen when they run out of OTHERS PEOPLES MONEY? Where do they get their money from then? Damn sure isnt the government. The government doesn't PRODUCE ANYTHING!!(except dependents) and FORCIBLY TAKES what people actually do WORK FOR.
I have some more questions for your brain, but lets see how well you answer these first.
OMG! I just reread your post...the BUFFET TAX? REALLY? LMFAO! Shows just how ignorant you really are. You must watch MSNBC. The taxes Buffet's secretary pays are INCOME TAXES. The taxes Warren Buffet pays are CAPITAL GAINS TAX(15%) from money he earned that was ALREADY TAXED at 33%. So Buffet is paying taxes on money he earns TWICE. *shakes head* Also, if Buffet was SO interested in paying taxes why is Berkshire Hathaway (Buffets Company) fighting so they dont have to pay like $1 billion in BACK taxes? Hypocrisy? I think so! Again, you show your ignorance.
Last edited by Azartyn; 12-03-2012 at 23:23.
You can easily be rich in America if you have no morals. You going to say that I am without facts, and, I am going to tell you that I've traveld the country and I have always struggled to find work. When I do find work I take it. But the work I find is never long lasting or stable. I've gone to soo many places in search of work... I've been turned down by every Walmart I've applied for. I've applied to at least 10 different ones and 2 of them I applied for over three years. You going to tell me I am without facts because I cannot prove anything, and, I'm going to respond that you are only calling me a liar, in a round a bout way. If I have anything (like the ability to type this information to you) its because I do work when I can work. The only people I see with a lot of money do things that would violate my morals.
I grow so tired of stereo typing people with beards calling them lazy and worthless bums. I think men without beards look like Women. But I would never give them trouble about this --deny them work. I am totally anti gay, but, I've had many gay friends that would never have known I was. I really believe in live and let live". I think as long as you are not doing something that effects the health of the those around you, drastically hurt the earth -- or some other major bad thing, you should be allowed to work, without being F%$ with. I do not think you should have to brown noise just to earn your daily needs.
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