Simians Vs Sanctuary

[Anri]

Here is our sides summary:

** Summary **

Total Attacks Made: 380 (48166 acres)
-- Traditional March: 332 (44453 acres)
-- Conquest: 1 (66 acres)
-- Ambush: 40 (3647 acres)
-- Massacres: 1 (5385 people)
-- Failed Attacks: 6 (1.6% failure)
Total Attacks Suffered: 294 (47497 acres)
-- Traditional March: 271 (46710 acres)
-- Ambush: 11 (787 acres)
-- Failed Attacks: 12 (4.1% failure)


The Kingdom of (Simians)

Total acres exchanged: +669 acres (380/294)

[jdorje]

It says we are up in our summary and the LL gains are heavy to our side.

It should be obvious from the CE I posted that you are up in your summary. Simians does have 1-2k acres of LL done which I haven't mentioned. Sanc is about 92k acres with our incoming, simians probably around 89k.

Acres are not a measure of who is winning, however. The easiest effective indicator is networth. Simians was 850k nw more at war start - about 500k nw more if you consider our cow's incoming training. For the last 36 hours that number has hovered around 200-300k nw. By this measure Sanc got a slight edge at the start which has since held fairly even. If you want us to withdraw, get that number up to 1-1.5M. (This is the number that made it obvious to me that rage was winning when bio withdrew, being so skewed in rage's favor.)

Another interesting indicator is peasantry. Simians has 450-500k peasants currently. How much does sanc have?

Obviously both of these metrics are very econ-centric. Networth is a weighted sum of all current resources, though the weights are not guaranteed to be accurate. Peasantry is an indicator of future econ. Winning a long war is entirely about economy, and of course the way to get better economy is to get more acres and be able to pump on them. If you have unbreakables that grow unfettered that should be reflected in the networth. If your big provinces are just farms waiting to be chained when the other side thinks they are big enough, that too should be reflected in the networth. Of course most big provinces lie somewhere in between these two extremes.

Looking at these two kingdoms I cannot tell who is going to win. It's not the best-fought war of the age but it may be the closest.

[protector]

I feel i must adress the warring KDs in mid range as well.

You should grow and war KDs like us, if you think its easy. Were right here. Nothing stops you from growing to our range.
What i have experienced is that if a top KD is mid range you guys take a wave or at most retal war it. To scared of warring and lose a war.
Its really sad to see. And if some top KD gets farmed out of t10 it means they are having a bad age. It proves very little if you manage to beat such an KD.
The very next age they might organize and be in the very top again. What you need to do is compete to be t10 and warring.
I want to see Freekstyle and some others make a move towards t10. Nothing says you cant have 5-6 wars in t10.
Watch my KD the last couple of ages. If you want to compete with the best KDs you know what to do.
Only reason my KD is t10 is because were proving what you are talking about. These kds are tuff to war but they can be beaten. Watch BiO and Simians this age.
We are pure definition of warring kds and we dont back down for no one. You want a piece of the top and you want to get some rep. Come beat us next age.
Cant talk crap if your down there pwning average KDs or even ghettos. You come up here and try to have 5-6 WWs in top10 and then we talk again.

You dont want to talk about this with Simians or me. I been ghetto, i been mid size, i been honor whoring, i been whoring wws, i been in the top, we made banks, we made calfs, we beat nearly all so called top KDs at least once. We also lost to them at least once. We won acres from almost every single KD on this server, we never backed down from a fight even if we went into it knowing we cant win it, if your KD done 10.000 hits we done 200.000 hits and HUNDREDS of war.
You dont get to speak about what its like to be ghetto, top, mid range, honor whoring and what not if you have not experienced all of it. Like my KD have.

I challenge all of you to get range to these so called top KDs and prove your point.
First then you will earn my respect. Til then your nothing but a mid ranged KD that search for fights you only can win.

We go into each and every fight in the top never knowing the outcome. Because thats what keep game interesting. Sure im big talk and say we will win, but its hard and tuff competition.

We just throw ourselfs into the fights and do our best and go in with our mind set on winning and getting acres from all.

I want to see you grow some balls and do this. TRY! Im waiting for all of you next age.
Its getting boring to war the same top KDs over and over.
Come to our range and beat us, i wont cry if you do and prove to us that you are as good as you say. You will get my respect if you do. Til then you are just all talk.

Perhaps not every kingdom wants to have to deal with the political bull**** in the top? I'm sure it's more complicated in the top10 as it is in say 20-100th spot ;)

Another interesting indicator is peasantry. Simians has 450-500k peasants currently. How much does sanc have?

Even if you have more, I'm sure their merchants produce more gold as your tacticians :p

[Persain]

Let me rephrase myself.

We were "freekstyle" but we progressed, learnt new things, warred new kds, became effective in whoring and adapting to the targets around us.

Btw the age where we had 0/6 wins was the age with 25 orcs where we said before age started that we would WD from all fights at min time and make sure we won acres in all fights.

k, let me rephrase that even when u guys go 0/6 its not really an easy fight, as per your strategy that age of purposely "loosing" wars. Which is y i still say u guys are one of the "best" kd in the game right now.. I.e where best is somewhat variable as im sure a few kds could beat u in war, a few kds could beat you in whoreing and even a few might beat u in activity but u guys do "everything". But that doesn't negate the fact that a few kds are better than u guy in a given role and that those kds are probably in the mid range. So when i ask about mid range (agree with you on the definition)

Mid range for me is right below t15 since they are nearly half our size and half our acres.
The mid range is spread from 4 mill nw to 7 mill networth pretty much.
Thats my definition of it. They are just oor from the top you know.
I am hoping that some KDs get inspired to at least try to compete in the top.

and hear other mid range kds say that rage isnt a very good kd or that they could take you, its because they define "good" as waring as more skillfull and look at bio as a prime example. Heck if they got up there in land they might be able to take u, but in the same way u guys like fighting in the top 10 nw, most of the mid range likes fighting in that size.

I look at my own kd for a "mid sized" waring kd. For example dating back to age 49ish i think we are something like 27/2 as far as war wins/losses go and the majority (exclude an oop war here and there) of those wars have been fought in your definition of mid range. And as of now we have no reason to leave the mid as its we can quickly find wars when we are ready (its a game we war when we have time), dont have to waste time early age dicing and dont have to deal with the top kds ego's (did u read the posts in the abs V bio thread...lol), and over the ages find a nice variety of different kds to war age-to-age. Sure it'd be fun to war u guys but its equally as fun to say war jerks or bio (when the finish the whoring), or freekstyle if we/when we line up in nw. In the mean time alot of the "players" in the mid are going to bad mouth the top becasue its easy and its not worth the time to prove the top wrong. (ie its easy to talk and not worth their time to grow and show)

With that said Anri good luck in war and the age and even better luck in

My way is to annoy them the best way i can so they get mad enough to grow and hunt us :)

becasue you'll really have to piss someone off to "waste" enough time to solely hunt your kd.


edit

Perhaps not every kingdom wants to have to deal with the political bull**** in the top? I'm sure it's more complicated in the top10 as it is in say 20-100th spot ;)

yup....as a current mid ranged kd thats another downer to geting up there in size as i have no desire to crown and thats alot of work to just war one "pro" kd. ie not worth my time.

[jdorje]

Even if you have more, I'm sure their merchants produce more gold as your tacticians :p

Correct. If one wants to get even more technical with the metric, one should compare the income mods on each peasant. In this case though it's not so easy. Simians peasantry breaks down to:
85k - on faery merchants
155k - on elf mystics
227k - on avian merchants
17k - somewhere else, or I'm bad at math, since the total is supposed to add up to 484k.
But what income mods do each have? The avian merchants have very unstable acres; what banks are they running? Are the faeries tog'ing? How much income science? And for that matter, how many total banks are in the kingdom to provide raw bank income?

As a side note, i would find it VERY interesting if the game developers would add "total income" as an entry on the kingdom page. The total gross income of all 25 provinces, that is. That would be extremely cool, and I cannot think of a single downside to it.

And despite the above arguments, I doubt that simians has more income than sanc. We have 150-200k peasantry on our merchants as well, and ours have bigger income mods by far. Being lazy, I don't have full intel on our kingdom so perhaps Anri can answer this one better.

[nookie]

why would it make you war just one top kd? you would have multiple top kds to war!

[citadela01]

You are biased anri. If nw ranges and cow size you and wicked mentioned earlier hoh and FS were roughly same size w/o the bank, hoh core was not fighting the uphill battle with aded malus of knrg on the side.

Any gains penalty should easily be countered by the fact hoh had what ... 35-40k bank ? thats huge money/solider maker right there that can feed up ub's like crazy while quading and preventing FS from craeating any ub provinces of their own (ub for the core at least obviously), allways traping more acres with their ub's and inevitably winning in the end. Only way FS should have gained in that war is by hit and run which acording to you guys wasnt the case and really isnt their style.

I'll take a wild guess here and presume they lost cause their bank was fb'ed to bits and any stashes it had got FG'ed early before inevitable economy advantage took its tool. It shouldnt really happen since aparently FS core was 10-20% of banks nw so either bank was poorly managed or hoh chained too deep creating provinces with crazy wpa able to fb through nw diff.

But whatever ... I'll stop beating the dead horse since op of this thread is pretty interesting.

[flogger]

What I want outta dorje is some math on how much the extra peasants hurt your econ as far as overpop. That'd be some hardcore shiznit.

[flogger]

People have mocked our faery cow for some inexplicable reason,

BIO likely has different plans and politics than myself, but I mock the feary cow because as soon as it goes up, its a major danger to all friendly cows. BIO is in a position right now where it should be able to get any deal it wants with any kingdom, therefore it can isolate vs you and leave you with a 15-20k province that can't defend itself against an avian merchant cow and the largest kd base with which to support it with bounces if needed. It gives BIO a chance to put on 10k+ acres without even giving up ops.

Biggest obstacle is x:x and I got no clue who that is, Rock?

[citadela01]

nice post Persian

[Persain]

why would it make you war just one top kd? you would have multiple top kds to war!

True, but if u want to stay evenly pumped in nw/science and thus have a chance at winning your going to be lucky if u can get 5+ wars and most "waring" kds would find that low. And personally after being in a variety of kds over the ages the only kd that routinely doesnt fall into "mid range" that id even want to war is Simians, Ahri seems friendly enough ;). Overall just to many bad experiences with "pro" leaders in high nw kds to ever want to play there....though willing to go where the kd wants.

nice post Persian

Thanks

Edit
Either way back to the actual topic, im still curious as to whos going to win, it seems closer than i expected.

[jdorje]

What I want outta dorje is some math on how much the extra peasants hurt your econ as far as overpop. That'd be some hardcore shiznit.

None if you have town watch up! Stupid avian.

[nookie]

hmmm showing total kingdom income would make them targets for stealing gc?

[jdorje]

BIO likely has different plans and politics than myself, but I mock the feary cow because as soon as it goes up, its a major danger to all friendly cows. BIO is in a position right now where it should be able to get any deal it wants with any kingdom, therefore it can isolate vs you and leave you with a 15-20k province that can't defend itself against an avian merchant cow and the largest kd base with which to support it with bounces if needed. It gives BIO a chance to put on 10k+ acres without even giving up ops.

You misunderstand the explore rate. For bio to explore an avian merchant on low draft from 6k to 20k would take 3-4 weeks. The econ mods of human (+30%) or faery (+60%) translate directly to proportionally more explored acres. Pool is not the limiting factor.

But yes there is a risk when you have -50% offense and -10% population. On the other hand, if it were a human or dwarf, I'm rather confident simians would have chained it by now so that wouldn't work out so well either. Conquest is all the rage these days and their bigs have nobody else to hit, and they have 5 faery t/ms. We had a limited window of just a few days to grow a province from 2-3k up past inzo, os, bio, simians, and fratzia. Human would not have had a chance.

[Anri]

Dorje i like to point out a few facts here:

We did more then 1500-2000a LL, its getting closer to 3k LL.
You would have 50k pessies more then us if we remove your peasantry in your bank.
We have 21 MS on you right now.
We have 15 riots on you right now.
We have 12 greeds on you right now.
I am suprised that you dont know what kind of science we have or what kind of bank % we have.
We are merchants vs tacts i dont think it matters that much if you have 600k+ pessies and if we have 480k.
Judging by the riots, greed and MS we have pretty good coverage right now and your econ is not a huge concern.
We will not forget to get chasity on a few and FB next.
We have had bot missing for 30h this war. Its a big factor since we could not cover your KD with ops while bot was down. We did NM waves much because of it.
Like Flogger pointed out the NM waves does not work in this war.
We had to use lots of mana/stealth to get the coverage, we will make sure we keep this coverage and higher and also FB some more.
I am having a hard time beleiving that your orcs can maintain your army.
We are in this for to win.
Its weekend, its my work weekend. I am gonna spam sms entire weekend to keep KD active.
You should consider if you want to have a beer and relax yourself before your orcs has no real army and will start losing acres to us.
We changed tactic and our networth will drop faster then ours from here on out.
I will war you til we reach a clear winner. We will WD if you create a big nw gap and start farming acres.
It is a very close war and both kds are doing an mediocre war, but activity is picking up on our side.
I expect before the weekend is over we will have control of this war and should have you guys talking about WDing with a max gain wave.

Enjoy :)