Age 54 Potential Changes Rev II

[lastunicorn]

A mere 200 acres difference in the median province's acreage would result in 20,000 less books per province and 600 less specs per acre. That's an awful lot of weight to place on a single province's size even if it is relative to the kingdom as a whole. There's going to be a ton of jockeying around that issue, but that wouldn't be an issue at all if the game used a mean. I accept if you think a median is better but it's definitely a big deal.

If the prov goes from 1200 to 1000 acres that's still 100,000 more bpa than you would have earned this age. Hitting the median provs will reduce bpa gains at end of war, just like max gaining would reduce them if it were changed to average acres.

[Persain]

or someone with a tiny chained prov get punished.

wait i read this again....how does median hurt someone with a chained prov at all compared to mean.. Point being that Mean=average...meadian= this

A mere 200 acres difference in the median province's acreage would result in 20,000 less books per province and 600 less specs per acre. That's an awful lot of weight to place on a single province's size even if it is relative to the kingdom as a whole. There's going to be a ton of jockeying around that issue, but that wouldn't be an issue at all if the game used a mean. I accept if you think a median is better but it's definitely a big deal.

and protecting a SINGLE prov in the dead center of land of your kd for 100-200 acre means alot in an orc kd where u get 600 leet credits for wining a war. Its alot easier to protect 1 player in the middle of your kd that to protect 100-200 acres across all your kd's prov and puts a giant focus on one player.

If the prov goes from 1200 to 1000 acres that's still 100,000 more bpa than you would have earned this age. Hitting the median provs will reduce bpa gains at end of war, just like max gaining would reduce them if it were changed to average acres.

yes but a single player looseing 200 acres causes the kd to lose 500,000 books and 15,000 spec credits. Thats enough books/credits to impact the concept of how you war.

Conquest.

Seems strange to have a race that by defintion wont be able to be hit for random attacks or be massacred if fully pumped, and thus MUST be conquested if you want to hurt them in nw range.

[Lordwarallied]

Please dont derail this thread with zercousy's idea to destroy the game.

He has to understand that,CounterOrder. 1 M off with one gen is one attack. 1 M off with 4 gens in 12-24 hours is 4-8 attacks. Simple math he wil have to understand. Versus anon who reduces all attacks possible.

[Ducktales]

Current humans are why attempting an A/T/M race doesn't work. No TPA/WPA bonuses severely hampers the usefulness of their damage penalty and makes them completely inferior to halfling (Cheaper, more effective thieves with extra stealth, who will easily hit the damage cap anyway) and Faery (Better DPA, TPA, WPA, and spellbook, despite the ~22% population difference)

Humans can't cow, they'll get absolutely annihilated by Halflings/Faeries and then hit by races with 9 offense elites vs. their 5/5 army. Humans really can't attack without getting crushed to the ground and may as well run all dspec, especially with their networth heavy elite. (If our cow were human, it'd never have survived the Simians war in such perfect shape and current human is drastically superior to new one)

Humans can be inferior thieves to halflings with less attacking ability or inferior thieves and mages to faeries with barely higher attacking ability.

I can't think of any use for human as its built right now, its among the weakest races I've ever seen and I've played Utopia for more than a decade. Either give the elite more defense or reduce its networth first and foremost (Basically, they're gnomes), but they need even more than that, unless you want to see Orcs/Uds doubletapping all home humans in networth range with a human that can barely single them back with their armies out.

I can't even think of how to fix the race right now. The best use is to launch a cow immediately and turtle for an entire month or two to not give ops to anyone. Only then does a human have any chance of being useful. (And chances are, it'll be FB'd immediately in your first real conflict unless you manage to get it really good WPA)

[DHaran]

If you think this Human is one of the weakest races of all time I question your experience. I'll take the +10% pop, FoK, ToG, WS, and a turtle elite. Fine with me. And if this is weak, then so was the 5/5 +10% pop halfers/gnomes that we've had for most of Utopia's history that somehow managed to do ok. I'd throw a Sage on this Human and have some fun. Weakest of all time would have to be totally unplayable like a few of those old DEs and Dwarves we had. This Human is totally playable.

[Palem]

Avian
-20% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage

- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables

Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW

slower, more thief oriented. I guess I can get behind this...

Dwarf
+ 10% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings

+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available

Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW

Love it.

Elves
+50% WPA
+1 mana in war
+ 1 defence specialist strength

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW

6/6 army, but super-duper mages. I guess I could get behind that...

Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW

I don't understand why you hate faery so much. With all of their bonuses, there is a better version of the same bonus out there. The only exception being their spell book and even that took a pretty serious hit by losing MS. Not only that, but you give them the two most absurdly awful penalties in the whole game. If you're going to force faery players into playing a dead role, the least you could do is make them king of their role.

For the love of god, loosen up that pop penalty please. That or give them their +50% WPA/TPA, or give them +50% op damage. Only one though...

Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 stealth
- 50% thief cost

-15% Birth Rate

Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 2/2
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW

Worst race, hands down. Doesn't make a very good TM. By comparison it doesn't make a very good hybrid.

Humans
+10% Population
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)

Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW

I guess humans are the new gnomes? I don't understand giving them ToG when their costs are so low. I still don't see any sense in them being more damaging TMs as Faery though...

Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits

-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage

Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW

Orc is so good it's not even funny.

The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed

- 25% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1000gc, 7.5NW

Meh, I have the feeling undead is only here because they didn't want to remove them this age. Why does Undead have chastity though? That's one thing I don't get.

[Budlightyear]

6/6 army, but super-duper mages. I guess I could get behind that...

I actually love this change. As it was, Elves were pretty mediocre hybrids... The main problem being balancing an offense with mage-like WPA and having enough TPA to defend runes, all without having any innate WPA/TPA bonuses. That meant they were second-rate Mages and poor attackers, even for a hybrid. An elf Mage essentially needed to be an M/t to protect runes already, which left little room for hybridization, and even then only at the expense of much lower effective WPA than Faeries and lower offense than most hybrids. So they could suck at two things or be good mages and barely attack.

The +50% WPA change actually allows them to be competitive as a Mage without having to spend so much population on their raw WPA. An elf/mystic will arguably be the best at duration-spells, but Faeries still have the upper hand with instant spells due to their 30% bonus, and Faeries still benefit from the fact that M/T compliment each other so well. So neither one is made useless, but they can synergize.

I like this change as is : )

As for Faeries, I can agree on loosening up the -10% pop bonus if they didn't have 3/8 elites... that allows them to maintain higher defense with a lower draft rate than any other race in the game. If it takes your army 25% less population to defend your land, compared to a 6-defense spec or elite, doesn't that already counter -10% population penalties overall? If Faeries didn't have those penalities they could be UB to all but the most aggressive, suicidal Orc/UD attackers their size.

Edit: I guess conquest would work for less-aggressive attacker builds trying to break a faery, but there are penalties to that as well - lower gains and higher losses- and the Faerie would still be UB to massacres from anyone but the most aggressive Orc/UD pure attackers his size.

I just don't like the idea of encouraging provinces that run UB strats. That's boring, and it ruins the game for attackers who have to sit on their thumbs and hope they don't get op'd. Being able to hit someone (with ops or attacks both) means you have to be able to get hit back just as easily!

[goodz]

Like the changes a lot, the better races can't turtle. Some fun races for warring kds, humans especially jump out as a good time. Human/Sage should be able to run a crazy wild a/t/m. Just wish honour was fixed some:p

Faerys can still be bounced, but imo would be better to give them a 7 point elite and +1 def spec that way they can kill dragons etc. Also I would reduce their elite value :P

Elves finally look fixed and should be a great time.

Dwarfs look to be one of the stronger races

Avians imo a little bit over nerfed. I mean you run 15% barracks on an avian and a dwarf, and the dwarf has QF vs the avians +20% faster and your looking at fairly similar attack times, I would consider giving avian +30% faster.

Orc looks over powered, do you really need 50% reduced losses from everything, 9 point elite, +20% gains, and elites with credits in an age when you get free credits when you win a war? I would remove the trains elites with credits bonus. Which I still think leaves them as one of the strongest races.

Halfling does suck. IMO they need a 6/6 elite to be viable, no pop bonus and 5/6 elite weak spell book. They can currently only really play a 100% thief...

Going to be a ton of anon hits or ambushes, funny that human got war spoils when all the other attacking races want it so bad :D

[I_am_Spartacus]

Oh wonderful, another round of Absalom orc kds. Core race wise Orc is noticeably superior but there's a reasonable case for elf or UD.

Dwarf needs higher BE bonus, and Avian needs the gains penalty removed or immunity to ambush/ws.

[Palem]

As for Faeries, I can agree on loosening up the -10% pop bonus if they didn't have 3/8 elites... that allows them to maintain higher defense with a lower draft rate than any other race in the game. If it takes your army 25% less population to defend your land, compared to a 6-defense spec or elite, doesn't that already counter -10% population penalties overall? If Faeries didn't have those penalities they could be UB to all but the most aggressive, suicidal Orc/UD attackers their size.

Edit: I guess conquest would work for less-aggressive attacker builds trying to break a faery, but there are penalties to that as well - lower gains and higher losses- and the Faerie would still be UB to massacres from anyone but the most aggressive Orc/UD pure attackers his size.

I just don't like the idea of encouraging provinces that run UB strats. That's boring, and it ruins the game for attackers who have to sit on their thumbs and hope they don't get op'd. Being able to hit someone (with ops or attacks both) means you have to be able to get hit back just as easily!

I guess you missed the part where faery lost 40% of their space efficiency? Space efficiency is the only reason faery works.

[goodz]

I guess you missed the part where faery lost 40% of their space efficiency? Space efficiency is the only reason faery works.

Faery was so broken this age. The nerf was required. I wouldn't mind them having +50% wpa/TPA if you nerf the elite. Halfling is so weak that the only real issue they have (runes being stolen) is not likely to happen because anyone running a halfer is to terrible to login

[Palem]

In all fairness. Faery wasn't OP. Faery with good Honor was OP.

[Tightpants]

Oh wonderful, another round of Absalom orc kds. Core race wise Orc is noticeably superior but there's a reasonable case for elf or UD.

Dwarf needs higher BE bonus, and Avian needs the gains penalty removed or immunity to ambush/ws.

What he said ^

Also, Avians need a real thievery bonus IMO, not a pretend one.

[Lordwarallied]

In all fairness. Faery wasn't OP. Faery with good Honor was OP.

all fearies i know have viscount min to Duke

[TRiV]

I don't understand why you want to remove MS from faeries? They are pretty one sided as it is ... why force them to run Mystics to get the MS, just weird.