A number of mechanics suggestions

[Bishop]

Separation is fine, its pretty essential really. We dont have any issues with it. The problem we do have is small kds getting declared on and nailed by massively larger kds, this was quite a common problem.

I seriously doubt that the top kds will now be unable to successfully play to chart because kingdoms that are, at a minimum, 30% smaller than them can dictate their age with ease. This hasn't happened with a wider declare range and I don't see it happening now. The argument that with a 50% range you could declare on them is just quite a lot of bull****, the gains would not outweigh dicing and would result in a net loss of acres so kingdoms that wanted to win would never declare down to 30-50% smaller than them.

Anyway, lets go with the idea that there is a valid point here - the tighter declare range allows kingdoms that are 30% smaller than you to mess about with you a lot. Why are you now unable to deter them?

[Scavenger]

Because they are rather sitting on low draft and not spend the effort.
Edit: Oops I mean they have to sit on low draft.

[Sheister]

yes, they resent that we force them to actually train some army in order to defend themselves so they can't run rushed 24/7 and instead have to settle for intensive. Life is so cruel.

[Elit]

Anyway, lets go with the idea that there is a valid point here - the tighter declare range allows kingdoms that are 30% smaller than you to mess about with you a lot. Why are you now unable to deter them?

Normally 99% from server wont have problem with kds 30% smaller, but atm there is good room for abuse it from another good kds. When you ignore people who say its can be abused they will abuse it. This people are masters on any abuse. They have number kingdoms advantage already. If they start run "friends" too will be so much.

[DHaran]

I'm giving up on this thread because it's just being overrun by people who have no clue what they're talking about and I don't have the stomach to be nice about it. It's unfortunate because jdorje, elit, and therock have forgotten more than these people will ever know about Utopia. I hope you guys manage to get your points through this crapshoot of nubery.

[Scavenger]

Normally 99% from server wont have problem with kds 30% smaller, but atm there is good room for abuse it from another good kds. When you ignore people who say its can be abused they will abuse it. This people are masters on any abuse. They have number kingdoms advantage already. If they start run "friends" too will be so much.

Is hitting up with a gain advantage but much lower econ and (logically!) militairy abuse? If the bigger kd was trained up like any normal kd it would be multitapping verses singles. Seems quite fair no?

nubery.

Lets call this a classic argument.

[Sheister]

because that attitude is what makes the game grow.... good show Dharan.

It is not nubery, it is not having no clue. It is the truth. Every thing they say is that they want to do only the most efficient thing in the game, so mechanics must be changed so that war is the most efficient thing and so that they can more efficiently beat on smaller KDs. Well, sorry, that is a load of bull. They try to come at the argument from the other side saying that smaller kingdoms are abusing them to such a degree that they a re handicapped in their race for #1, which is clearly bull as they are always in the fight for it anyway, so even if it is a problem (which I do not believe) it clearly is not a large problem and it is one they can easily circumvent through their most venerated tactic, diplomacy.

So, just as small KD's crying about being beat on by large ones are told "learn diplomacy, learn to play" (which they have and now the whining from the top is happening, all they did was what you told them to do.) the answer here is the same. Right back at you boys. Learn to play, learn diplomacy.

Treat smaller kingdoms with respect and not as farms and you will have fewer problems with them. You are creating your own problems and you are too blinded by your own 1337ness to see it.

[DHaran]

The only classic argument happening here is that of the scrub, who complains about how others play to win without really understanding why it's the right way to play given a set of circumstances or mechanics.

The difference here is and always shall be this: players who only know one type of play are arguing with those who knows ALL types of play. It's laughable how sure they are of themselves that they know everything.

I'll tell you what hurts the games Sheister, people like you who don't take opportunity to learn from legends like jdorje when they actually participate in forum discussions. This is why elite players stay away, because they have to deal with people who don't understand much of what they're trying to discuss.

[Scavenger]

nevermind

[Sheister]

Not so Dharan. The majority of players of this game do not come on here to read what dorje writes. But they do experience what his KD and the other "top" KD call efficient farming which is, hitting those who can't hit back. They experience threats in their inboxes. They experience bullying and browbeating and intimidation in a game that is supposed to just be fun. So, all those elite KD's who are more experienced in handling that kind of thing are rightly carrying the burden when us nubs can't handle it as well. Again, if the elitists can't take us nubs, I recommend that a more elite server for those 10 kd's is developed where they can all agree to dice and not war until they are all ready.

I am not complaining about how they play to win. They are free to go for it. I want them to and good for them. I object to the concept that there is a "right" way to play this or any other game that is made for people to enjoy however they please. You also presume a lot about me when you assume I only know "one way" to play. Just because I find a particular method repugnant does not mean I can't do it.

[DHaran]

Thank you for demonstrating my point in its entirety with that ridiculous post. Once again, the scrub mentality is in full display.

Introducing.... the Scrub.

[Scavenger]

So... are you just throwing around qualifications or are you discussing something?

[Sheister]

no, his point is that if we do not try to crown, then we are unqualified to discuss the game. It is a very good thing Dharan is not in charge of this game or else it would die even more quickly.

but while we are on the subject Dharan:

"A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about."

I guess there is a little bit of scrub in every elite player too.....and their 48 hr notice CFs and all the rest of that crud. Oh wait! Were you saying that *****ing about this supposed "NW problem" means they are scrubs?

[Elit]

Sheister, if you get 10k people who never played before utopia there will be again top/midle/low rank kds. Its natural same like sun go up every morning and down every night. Last few ages there was major changes but i didunt bother to care much. But after read TheRock post about explore i got a lot respect to him.
From game was removed FWr 2 ages ago and explore formula was changed. This combined have very huge effect. Basically in all past ages there was 2 main option for use your kd land pool. 1. run cow 2 explore all kd. Second is possible only if you prepare all your kd for explore make it and go in fwr. Now you cant FWr legit and use pool with all your kd is very hard. For this Cows are become much more important for all kds who compete for n1 land. Look like explore cost is so high on bigger size and for this they run 2-3 cows per kd, make use pool more effective. Its ok but now there i dis balance. First you must up cow if you want to compete for n1 because explore all kd is not possible. Losing this strategy option is huge problem for have more variations. This explore cost affect not only top kds but small kd too. A lot t/m use to explore. Same for chained provinces.

This need tune too. I dont need arguments how ppl shold war not explore. If there is option in game its need to work proper.

I wish to hear constructive comments about declare peace option. Its can be good for all kds in any range.

[Sheister]

Peace Option: May be workable, but IIRC as it was used before it was kind of what fort is now (or at least some aspects of it), or am I thinking of a different game. I thought back in the 20's we had a peace relations option.