Simians Vs Sanc, HoH or Rage

[AquaSeaFoam]

This boils down to which kingdom gets to pick who they fight in a 3 fish fight. I have always advised my kingdoms and Absalom kingdoms that if a kingdom wants to fight you (and that kingdom is a worthy match) that you should not try and run from the fight by instead choosing a more suitable target quickly to avoid them. My kingdoms have never done that and we've instead stood and fought the kingdom wanting to fight us even when outmatched and even when it resulted in a month of mutual destruction. I've always advised other Absalom kingdoms to also play this way although at times not all have listened.

The first thing we all need to recognize is that this "1v1" stuff is indeed an artificial construct largely put in place by top kingdoms and alliances with Absalom being the most obvious early proponent of. The game lets multiple kingdoms fight one kingdom just fine. Looking at this aspect, it would be very foolish to wave another kingdom when another strong kingdom is in the process of fighting you and has made it clear that they intend to full wave you and have already sent you a dragon and hit your cow. To quickly instead hit another kingdom is really to try and abuse the artificial "rule" of not hitting into "hostiles".

I've always also been a proponent of using common sense and not abusing some set of artificial "rules" to take advantage of situations such as by dodging a fight by quickly waving a kingdom that you feel to be an easier match. Likewise it would be an abuse to have 4 kingdoms all do 7 hits on one and claim no hostile so it's fine just because none was given ingame.

Use common sense, don't abuse rules (especially artificial ones), and don't run from fights by quickly initiating easier ones and everyone will have less trouble. This statement goes for everyone abs or not.

[I_am_Spartacus]

Simians didn't 'wave another KD really quick to avoid hostile' - the KD waved (HoH) had been served notice and the wave was planned. Sanc has even stated that they did not intend to hit Simians into hostile while they where still in fort so there was no hostile to dodge. Given the nature of the conflict the left hand knew what the right hand was doing, so it's a clear 2 vs 1 powerplay which included waving into a hostile.

After HOH declared:

"<@Chuck|AFK> i have a war to plan now"

This insinuates that Simians had not originally planned to fight HOH or a strat would already be in place!! Popcorn on that!

[sexual harassment panda]

so what is the abs official stance on double dibbing????

it seems like there is double dibbing going on here. ive seen people get kicked out of social circles for too much double dibbing. you haveta get them their own ketchup.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Double dibbing is like putting your whole kingdom right in the dib. Look, from now on when you take a dib, just take one dib and end it.

[ShadowFox]

This boils down to which kingdom gets to pick who they fight in a 3 fish fight. I have always advised my kingdoms and Absalom kingdoms that if a kingdom wants to fight you (and that kingdom is a worthy match) that you should not try and run from the fight by instead choosing a more suitable target quickly to avoid them. My kingdoms have never done that and we've instead stood and fought the kingdom wanting to fight us even when outmatched and even when it resulted in a month of mutual destruction. I've always advised other Absalom kingdoms to also play this way although at times not all have listened.

The first thing we all need to recognize is that this "1v1" stuff is indeed an artificial construct largely put in place by top kingdoms and alliances with Absalom being the most obvious early proponent of. The game lets multiple kingdoms fight one kingdom just fine. Looking at this aspect, it would be very foolish to wave another kingdom when another strong kingdom is in the process of fighting you and has made it clear that they intend to full wave you and have already sent you a dragon and hit your cow. To quickly instead hit another kingdom is really to try and abuse the artificial "rule" of not hitting into "hostiles".

I've always also been a proponent of using common sense and not abusing some set of artificial "rules" to take advantage of situations such as by dodging a fight by quickly waving a kingdom that you feel to be an easier match. Likewise it would be an abuse to have 4 kingdoms all do 7 hits on one and claim no hostile so it's fine just because none was given ingame.

Use common sense, don't abuse rules (especially artificial ones), and don't run from fights by quickly initiating easier ones and everyone will have less trouble. This statement goes for everyone abs or not.

No you change the rules to suit you at the time.

It really is sad that Sanc had to try and pull this rather then wait for us to come oow with HoH.

[TheRock]

Double dibbing is like putting your whole kingdom right in the dib. Look, from now on when you take a dib, just take one dib and end it.

You dib the way you want to dib, I'll dib the way I want to dib.

FYI: They're real and they're spectacular

[protector]

Prot, was it also "wrong" when your kingdom in the past followed through on waves they had initiated despite the target kingdom quickly waving someone else in hopes of avoiding fighting you?

Really so hard for you to answer straight up is it? Is Sanctuary wrong in your eyes or not? Or cant you speak openly because dorje would be butthurt in case you agreed with me?

And secondly, you might wanna be more specific as you might be argueing about situation which I never participated in. I've been in a few kingdoms, but most kingdoms I've been part of have been around for longer as I was there... You can't blame me for something I wasn't participating in.
I can't recall a wave I have done, other than the one on Sanctuary which I halted when they waved Pulse.

[protector]

And told ya HoH would fight. I'm surprised ASF is supporting this behavior :)

Im just curious what would have happened if this was 2 non-abs kds vs 1 Sanc.. we'd probably have mercy, rage and hoh hitting those 2 kingdoms now. Hypocrites.

[Chuck]

Rather difficult to keep same targets and such after taking a wave from Sanctuary with many of our armies out on HoH already.

After HOH declared:

"<@Chuck|AFK> i have a war to plan now"

This insinuates that Simians had not originally planned to fight HOH or a strat would already be in place!! Popcorn on that!

[Chuck]

I think its rather cute that many in here talk about Simians being at fault here. If Sanc had the balls to wave into our fortified stance, then perhaps we would be at war with them right now instead of HoH. They did not though...in fact, we did not end up causing HoH to be hostile with us until 37 minutes into the tick AFTER all CF's were cleared. Sanctuary had an entire tick PLUS 37 minutes into a second tick to wave Simians. The fact of the matter here is that Sanc lacks the balls to do that and instead wanted a free wave on us. They got their free land, but nothing is free in this game - we will find them when they are out waving someone else at a later date.

[princess]

Well I can starighten some stuff up.
Simians had planned on goign after HOH all along, it seems noticing 3 abs kds was a mistake but was to stop the other two from pumping and vulture after the war.
Simians went in fort a tic too late and could not come out of fortified til march 2, thus why simians never waved til march 2. In mean time sanc sent a dragon, rage started and cancelled theres after making a deal with simians. Sanc then hit simians cow which i still do not believe makes the two kds in a hostile situation, they are hostile acts not a hostile. Then simians continued to wave hoh and give them button thinking sanc would then back off and hoh would fight. if hoh had said they did not want o fight and wanted cf i think it would be fair of sanc to continue action. Hoh made no such agreement and actually did ops and prepared. Dorje was told that simians wanted to war hoh and to back off. sanc then finished its wave. Hoh then started a dragon showing they would war or up the hostile and sanc then hit again. Hoh declared and since noone has interferred.
I trust jdorje will wait til war is over to continue his battle with anri .

Issue here is when and when a kd is hostile. i believe it is determined by the giving of hostile relations and the presence of a button. I think all hits after this point are considered a double hostile. This idea of claiming noticing and sending of dragons and who hit who foirst is BS, the term hostile is written in the rules of the game as when a certain number of hits from one kd add up to a set amount of points. No other definition of hostile should be used except that which is in the game.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Really so hard for you to answer straight up is it?

I already did state my thoughts on this. Simians was first lame to notice Sanc and then to dodge them by quickly waving another kingdom *after* Sanc already sent them a dragon and hit their cow and said they'd full wave as soon as simians left fortified. This lame behavior put Sanc in position to either be nice guys and give up the fight they initiated after being noticed, thus screwing themselves, or responding to lameness with more lameness and continuing the fight. Sanc was lame back and continued the fight despite Simians attempts to dodge it by waving another kingdom after Sanc initiated a fight first.

Issue here is when and when a kd is hostile. i believe it is determined by the giving of hostile relations and the presence of a button. I think all hits after this point are considered a double hostile. This idea of claiming noticing and sending of dragons and who hit who foirst is BS, the term hostile is written in the rules of the game as when a certain number of hits from one kd add up to a set amount of points. No other definition of hostile should be used except that which is in the game.

Actually, this isn't the issue. The issue is that the rules of the game do not offer any protection in a "hostile". Many top kingdoms have agreed that fair 1v1 fights are most fun and thus have generally avoided gangbangs, intentional 2v1's etc. Trying to use this generosity as a method to run from a fair 1v1 fight by quickly picking a different fight after getting a dragon and a cow hit and a notice of intention to full wave is an abuse. The desire for fair 1v1 play was always intended to stop kingdoms from teaming up to take down one kingdom, but was never intended ot be a means for a kingdom to escape fights that were being initiated.

Again, if you want to act like a kingdom that just sent you a dragona nd ht your cow and told you they'd full wave you as soon as you exited fortified was not fighting you, then you can act that way. But if a kingdom doing that to you isn't fighting you than that's essentually saying that it's fine for many kingdoms to all do that to you at the same time. Is it fine for 4 kingdoms to send you dragons and each do 7 hits on you? I'd say this is not fine even though there would not be any hostile and thus no "double hostile" by your ingame definition.

Im just curious what would have happened if this was 2 non-abs kds vs 1 Sanc.. we'd probably have mercy, rage and hoh hitting those 2 kingdoms now. Hypocrites.

This has happened before. In the times I can recall, I basically told the Abs kingdom that they were idiots for trying to dodge a fight by waving another kingdom when another one was already starting a fight with them. No retribution occurred. I'm pretty sure your former kingdom was once the waving kingdom that an Abs kingdom tried unsuccessfully to dodge but your kingdom just full waved them anyway and was not punished for it. In addition, I already pasted how last age when Inso was waving Rage while Rage was waving BIO that Rage stopped hits on BIO and fought Inso instead. This is exactly what I said I advocate and is not hypocritical. BTW, how's your current 2v1 or 3v1 or whatever going? Hypocrite.

[wartague]

Why u crying over a random, Anri? Damn. Wonder what would happen if we waved.

Dude don't go ruin our gains....let us have our fun with the monkeys. :P

[jdorje]

Didn't you b*tches whine at us when we hit you after you noticed us during hostile with Pulse?

Not the same situation at all. And although I wasn't happy with how that went down, it was only a minor power play.

1. Sanc noticed pulse.
2. Ceasefire ended, pulse sat in fortified (no limitation on duration).
3. Two days go by. Sanc gives up on pulse and instead notices inzo.
4. Hours before inzo cf ends, pulse leaves fortified and hits us a few times (odd since we had already told inzo we'd re-cf if pulse would fight us, which had been declined).
5. We retal pulse.
6. Inzo hits us 2x + 1x per day.

Inzo was in the wrong, but a few randoms isn't really anything to worry over so we didn't. This situation is quite clear cut since (1) simians noticed us (2) we announced our intention to fight them and told them not to wave anyone else, and hit their cow, and sent a dragon (3) they waved someone else anyway. It would be like if we'd waved inzo after pulse had started hitting us - we'd have invited a double-team onto ourselves. That's exactly what happened to simians.

There is another related situation to this, interesting since some current simians leaders were involved.

1. Sanc and fratzia were in a staring contest (i think we noticed them, not sure).
2. Neither side would hit; sanc instead noticed funshow (fratzia ally at the time) who was imminently farmable.
3. Funshow ceasefire expired and we waved them.
4. Marcel came to me and said they'd wave us if we waved funshow (a reasonable statement, but unfortunately we'd already half-completed our wave).
5. Fratzia waved us. We agreed we'd war them in exchange for some concessions with respect to the double team. We declared.
6. Funshow then waved us into the war.

Looking at it objectively though it's possible simians made the smart move. As it is they only gave us one free wave, while if it had gone to war they stood to lose a lot more. Nobody likes to fight a kingdom that has 9 unbreakables and 500m gc on hand. On the other hand since they've made no attempt at diplomacy, who knows what could happen afterwards.

The big winner here, of course, is rage.

[flogger]

BTW, how's your current 2v1 or 3v1 or whatever going? Hypocrite.

FYI - There's no "1" on either side and hasn't been for almost a week now.