Simians Vs Sanc, HoH or Rage

[Elit]

It pretty clearly isn't the same situation if neither kingdom had any intention of legitimately fighting. Stop spewing nonsense.

Situation is same. How you define "legitimately fighting"? When Rage have advantage they can decide who have "right" to fight with them but when Simians are in disadvantage they dont have right to pick his target? How many hits did Simians in return Sanc for hit cow and dragons? How many sing they gave for plan to "legitimately fighting" with sanc to make sanc wave them after send his army out?
Yes maybe you are right..its not same situation. Bio didn't double hostile rage but sanctuary double Simians.

[Mal]

Situation is same. How you define "legitimately fighting"? When Rage have advantage they can decide who have "right" to fight with them but when Simians are in disadvantage they dont have right to pick his target? How many hits did Simians in return Sanc for hit cow and dragons? How many sing they gave for plan to "legitimately fighting" with sanc to make sanc wave them after send his army out?
Yes maybe you are right..its not same situation. Bio didn't double hostile rage but sanctuary double Simians.

A legitimate fight involves not abusing game mechanics to avoid giving a button. If BiO had given Rage a button followed by Rage ignoring them THAT would be close to an analogous situation.

Simians noticed Sanctuary causing them to train up, Sanctuary started the conflict with a cow hit and dragon and told them not to hit anyone else. It is so far apart in this case its absurd. You spew propaganda.

And no, to answer your question, you have no right to run from a kingdom who you noticed once they have begun the conflict. "The rules" are more like guidelines, they are constantly massaged/broken, Simians tried to treat them as absolute and game them. As I mentioned earlier in the thread Ghettocats is being gangbanged over less, all Simians had to do was fight Sanctuary and there would have been no double hostile (they were well informed what would happen). The situation with Rage was totally different because you actively sought out a gangbang against them, intention matters too. No one in HoH intended to fight Simians until they were waved, no one in Sanctuary intended to double hostile.

[Luc]

My take on this:

From the Simians camp:
1. We still have a shot at crowning, or at least making it a lot harder for some others to do it. How do we accomplish that?
2. Well, we need to slow them all down as much as possible, or we need to farm a lot of land ourselves instead. Hmmm...
3. Ok, well, the weakest kd up there is HoH, and ABS won't hesitate to throw them under the bus...
4. Alright, so we should notice all the 3 up in the top, that way they either have to convert "just in case" (which slows them down), or they will give us HoH to farm so the others can keep growing. Awesome!

Simians then notice all 3 without actually wanting to fight anyone but HoH, but of course make it look like they're open to fighting anyone (so the others will slow down and convert at least a bit).

In comes Sanctuary, actually taking Simians by surprise, wanting to fight them, and being capable of seriously hurting Simians bank. This wasn't what Simians were expecting at all, so they quickly go ahead with their "original" plan in hitting HoH, hoping to escape from Sanctuary. Sanctuary outplayed Simians, and now Simians are trying hard to not have to face them.

Swooping in comes all the people with irrational ABS-hate, immediately taking Simian's side regardless of what they've done, and the ABS people try to defend themselves (which is pretty much a waste of time, because the haters will not ever listen).

I.e. it looks very clear to anyone who's objective that Simians are using HoH as an excuse to get away from Sanctuary. They noticed 3 kd's because they thought they were smart, but they turned out to be wrong in their assumptions and are now scrambling to get away from the mistake they made. I have no doubt they really would prefer to war HoH, but that's irrelevant because of their other actions. They used notices to try to force other kd's to play a certain way, and then expect to get to pick who to fight too? Ridiculous.

Conclusion: Simians gets the lamer award in this conflict for pretending they've been mistreated. They came up with a plan and tried to run with it, but it failed. They should just acknowledge that it failed, learn from it and keep on playing and everything would be fine. But they don't (at least Anri doesn't, and he's their public figure), and so they make themselves look like a bunch of morons again. Sanctuary did exactly what anyone with a brain would've done, and anyone who argues otherwise is a full blown hypocrite.

NOTE: I'm not affiliated with ABS in any way. I don't play in any of their kd's (as a matter of fact I have no province at all right now) and don't have any ties to any of their leaders whatsoever. I've never played in Simians or any of their allied kd's either.

On the FSU side of things: the problem with the anti-abs kd's has never been a lack of skill. They fail to beat ABS because they act like a bunch of selfish 12 year olds. It's been happening like that for a long long time, history just repeating itself. I was a part of it several years ago, but gave it up pretty quickly when ppl acted the way they did. ABS needs to be challenged, and beaten up completely every now and then, but this is not the way to do it.

[MrC-TheAncients]

So many ppl here spam out their w/e opinions on how bad/lame Simians are. Wtf is wrong with so many forum nubs thinking they know wtf is going on. Be glad ppl, that a kd like Simians are around to make **** more interesting for everyone. Even abs like having someone to play with, otherwise the game would be boring and uninteresting for em. In my perfect world, i would love to see the anti abs kds get their shizzle together and make a more organised strike at abs - right now its too easy for abs to control how things go. Sanc gets a wave in on Sims before they go to war with HoH & HoH even had size advantage before war broke out - thats not even a fair fight. Even if Simians come out as winners, either sanc or rage will come running in for sloppy 2nds. How is that in any way exciting to watch? ..... :/ I support kds like BiO & Simians - good active kds who dont take **** lying down. Pls, hold hands next age and give abs a real run for their money. Spanx!

[Elit]

A legitimate fight involves not abusing game mechanics to avoid giving a button. If BiO had given Rage a button followed by Rage ignoring them THAT would be close to an analogous situation.

More or less none make more full wave and gave button from begin. Make 7 hits is norm for many kds to start his war. Bio and sanc did same number hits. Why Sanctuary didn't gave button from begin?

Simians noticed Sanctuary causing them to train up, Sanctuary started the conflict with a cow hit...

Its fair trade. Free hit on cow is big advantage.

told them not to hit anyone else.

Its power play. You cant force KD x to do or not to do any only because you want it.

you have no right to run from a kingdom who you noticed once they have begun the conflict.

Wrong. You have right to notice any time when your cf deal expire. This don't mean you will wave/war them.

The situation with Rage was totally different because you actively sought out a gangbang against them, intention matters too.

Complete lie. If i want to GB rage will be same to what rage did on Dreams. They wanted to drop us from n1. So if i ever join in GB vs rage will be only to drop you from n1 spot too. Look very fair trade to me. GB you when you cant win age is simple stupid. Why to make it? "intention matters" but more important is what you doing. Right now i had zero GB organized in my history and ABS have many. Its raw facts.

[protector]

And no, to answer your question, you have no right to run from a kingdom who you noticed once they have begun the conflict.

Then why did Sanctuary run from Insolence a few ages ago? ;)
Don't point fingers at other peoples crimes when you have committed them yourselves very recently.

[I_am_Spartacus]

Well written Luc. That's on par with how the majority of sane non-biased people feel.

[tak3shi]

My take on this:

From the Simians camp:
1. We still have a shot at crowning, or at least making it a lot harder for some others to do it. How do we accomplish that?
2. Well, we need to slow them all down as much as possible, or we need to farm a lot of land ourselves instead. Hmmm...
3. Ok, well, the weakest kd up there is HoH, and ABS won't hesitate to throw them under the bus...
4. Alright, so we should notice all the 3 up in the top, that way they either have to convert "just in case" (which slows them down), or they will give us HoH to farm so the others can keep growing. Awesome!

Simians then notice all 3 without actually wanting to fight anyone but HoH, but of course make it look like they're open to fighting anyone (so the others will slow down and convert at least a bit).

In comes Sanctuary, actually taking Simians by surprise, wanting to fight them, and being capable of seriously hurting Simians bank. This wasn't what Simians were expecting at all, so they quickly go ahead with their "original" plan in hitting HoH, hoping to escape from Sanctuary. Sanctuary outplayed Simians, and now Simians are trying hard to not have to face them.

Swooping in comes all the people with irrational ABS-hate, immediately taking Simian's side regardless of what they've done, and the ABS people try to defend themselves (which is pretty much a waste of time, because the haters will not ever listen).

I.e. it looks very clear to anyone who's objective that Simians are using HoH as an excuse to get away from Sanctuary. They noticed 3 kd's because they thought they were smart, but they turned out to be wrong in their assumptions and are now scrambling to get away from the mistake they made. I have no doubt they really would prefer to war HoH, but that's irrelevant because of their other actions. They used notices to try to force other kd's to play a certain way, and then expect to get to pick who to fight too? Ridiculous.

Conclusion: Simians gets the lamer award in this conflict for pretending they've been mistreated. They came up with a plan and tried to run with it, but it failed. They should just acknowledge that it failed, learn from it and keep on playing and everything would be fine. But they don't (at least Anri doesn't, and he's their public figure), and so they make themselves look like a bunch of morons again. Sanctuary did exactly what anyone with a brain would've done, and anyone who argues otherwise is a full blown hypocrite.

NOTE: I'm not affiliated with ABS in any way. I don't play in any of their kd's (as a matter of fact I have no province at all right now) and don't have any ties to any of their leaders whatsoever. I've never played in Simians or any of their allied kd's either.

On the FSU side of things: the problem with the anti-abs kd's has never been a lack of skill. They fail to beat ABS because they act like a bunch of selfish 12 year olds. It's been happening like that for a long long time, history just repeating itself. I was a part of it several years ago, but gave it up pretty quickly when ppl acted the way they did. ABS needs to be challenged, and beaten up completely every now and then, but this is not the way to do it.

:) .

[citadela01]

I actually expected Simians to force all 3 kd‘s to train up and than either fullout wave 1 with dragon immediatelly when notice expires into fort, or stare back from fort and pick fight with whoever came after them. Desperate move but they were pretty much fcked anyway ... that seemed like only way to get away with noticing 3 kd‘s and keeping it on 1v1 lvl.

Waitin for Sanc to make a move first and than try to run and cry foul play is just plain dumb.

[MrC-TheAncients]

Simians was directly told Sanc was fighting them. Sanc initiated before Simians started. Simians was informed they would not be fighting HoH. After hiding for an hour in fort, and temporarily *untagging* hostile vs. HoH, Simians decided that the best course of active was to hit HoH and whine for support, knowing that Sanc was going to be the one fighting them and knowing Sanc would wave them when they dropped fort no matter what.

Anri was afraid of Sanc, chose to get himself into a "double hostile", and is now whining for his life and trying to be a martyr. We chose who was going to fight you. Whether you disagreed or not was not our problem. You knew you'd be waved the moment you left fort.

The only poor play here belongs to Anri for waving a kingdom that obviously had no intentions to fight his out of pure fear.

It's fun to watch him squirm, though.

Life is easy and talk is cheap when you're 3 vs 1 in the top. Ppl need to effing chill and enjoy the show instead. I have more respect for KDs doing **** on their own, then ppl playing in the biggest alliance in the game, always having other kds same size backing them. aabs side have same number of kds, but always way smaller in size.

[tak3shi]

Simians Situation is almost same what was few ages ago for rage. Proteus still keep talk he was doubled. If its true now simians is doubled from sanc. Only difference is rage had huge advantage and simians dont have. For this to put his kd on propose 2vs1 was stupid.

asf, we still didn't finish our talk in irc but don't pm me 2-5 am my time. I'm retired and don't talk all night more.

you're really dumb bigot, rage vs dreams was already in the notice. BIO hitting out of nowhere just because they want to fsu rage was in no way similar to Simians noticing 3 kd's, though i agree that hitting out after u've been waved is stupid, Baka in no way hid the fact of his dislike for Proteus and has posted numerous times they would fsu any kd Proteus played in irregardless of rules. U're next in line after Anri, it's a shame i had some respect for you in the past, now it's like your whole family and dog got killed by abs and u're vengeance is poured without any sensible notions.

[tak3shi]

sanc claimed us by making one hit when we intended for pretty much a month to war HoH.
We gave HoH button. If sanc had balls they would have given us the button. That defines a hostile relation. There is no dibbs, you can certainly not hit a KD that gave another KD the button just cause you want to war that KD. Finish the wave and now let HoH declare. Pure powerplaying. Its okey thou, cause we know what abs think now. We can treat them the same way in the future. We gonna put dibbs on sanctuary every time they go war/hostile.

We all know you're scared of sanctuary. Now just admit it, tell dorje you're pissing your pants that you dont wanna war them cos u'll get farmed out and give Sanc the crown then maybe he'll have pity on you and let you fight hoh. :)

[tak3shi]

we were just about to leave fort stance when u sent us a dragon!
We are going to fight HoH. Go the **** away you caused enough damage by sending a dragon on HoHs behalf. HoH bull**** talked us for a good month. Back down Dorje!!!
I wont have you double hostile us and interfering. Our dragon vs HoH and our tagg shows we want to war HoH. When u back down we are hitting them. So move along....

Cry, shouldn't have noticed sanc now should u? Maybe if you noticed only hoh, you wouldn't get yourself into this ****ty mess. Now little boy after you pee all over the floor and ruin the carpet, no use crying.

[Elit]

you're really dumb bigot, rage vs dreams was already in the notice. BIO hitting out of nowhere just because they want to fsu rage was in no way similar to Simians noticing 3 kd's, though i agree that hitting out after u've been waved is stupid, Baka in no way hid the fact of his dislike for Proteus and has posted numerous times they would fsu and kd Proteus played in irregardless of rules. U're next in line after Anri, it's a shame i had some respect for you in the past, now it's like your whole family and dog got killed by abs and u're vengeance is poured without any sensible notions.

If you have arguments use them, don't call people with names.

Rage and Dreams had notice yes, and after its expire there was no hostile. rage send dragon and did 2 hits/get 2 hits. After it we had talk with asf. I told him clear we wont war. For 24h both kds had zero hits in/out. So from there you have zero chance for escalate it to war. Yes baka made it clear he don't like Proteus and he will hit rage. Its was another good reason for us to not war rage. Imagine if there was war and BIO start hit rage oow what complain will come from abs and how they will say its all was planed from me?
Do you remember 2-3 ages ago when all big kds got target share big faery semi cow in ghetto. He suicide in war and WD after it. From all top kds only rage was brave enough to wave alone province oow in post war from real war. Later this province did all what he can= ops on rage. And its turned to flogger fail because he "coordinated it". Accuse people to be guilty for something what never happen is new ABS politic for play. Yes BIO and baka wanted to play it more dirty vs Rage but its turned different. From other side Sanctuary did wave on kd who just waved another kd, and sanctuary didn't got any hits. This is clear double hostile.

About simians gave all 3 kds notice same time. Its was hell stupid. If they want to notice all 3 kds they need to put at lest 4-5h window and start his wave on hoh before expire notice with rest 2.

[MrC-TheAncients]

Cry, shouldn't have noticed sanc now should u? Maybe if you noticed only hoh, you wouldn't get yourself into this ****ty mess. Now little boy after you pee all over the floor and ruin the carpet, no use crying.

Takeshi, biased much are we? What would have happened if Sims didn't give notice to Sanc? Ima gonna venture a guess and say Sanc would have given notice to Sims, so end result would have been the same.