Fair enough, not sure i agree but reasonable none the less.Originally Posted by Palem
Fair enough, not sure i agree but reasonable none the less.
Well I'm not saying that's what I would run, but it's certainly viable to deal with faeries.
Yes it did get buffed. By a nice margin too. Put the extra 2.5 pop per acre faeries got into elites.
pew pew. Absolutely none of my nubs speak for my kingdom.
Well how does Faery's defense stack up against offenses this age:
Faery v Avian: 8/7 = 1.14
Faery v Dwarf: 8/7 or 8/8 (with horses) = 1.14 or 1
Faery v Elf: 8/6 or 8/7 = 1.33 or 1.14
Faery v Halfling: 8/5 or 8/6 = 1.6 or 1.33
Faery v Human: same as halfling
Faery v Orc: 8/9 or 8/10 = 0.89 or 0.8
Faery v Undead: Same as orc
Age 55:
v Avian: 6/6 = 1
v Dwarf: 6/6 or 6/7 = 1 or .86
v Elf: 6/5 or 6/6 = 1.2 or 1
v Halfer: 6/4 or 6/5 = 1.5 or 1.2
v Human: same as halfer
v Orc: 6/7 or 6/8 = 0.86 or 0.75
v Undead: same as Orc
Every single attacking race got a relative offensive boost compared to Faery.
Add in mercs/prisoners. Assuming that you send max:
Age 54:
Avian: 8/7.6 = 1.05
Dwarf: 8/7.6 or 8/8.6 = 1.05 or 0.93
Elf: 8/6.6 or 8/7.6 = 1.21 or 1.05
Halfling/Human: 8/5.6 or 8/6.6 = 1.43 or 1.21
Orc/Undead: 8/9.6 or 8/10.6 = 0.83 or 0.75
Age 55:
Avian: 6/6.6 = 0.91
Dwarf: 6/6.6 or 6/7.6 = 0.91 or 0.79
Elf: 6/5.6 or 6/6.6 = 1.07 or 0.91
Halfling/Human: 6/4.6 or 6/5.6 = 1.30 or 1.07
Orc/Undead: 6/7.6 or 6/8.6 = 0.79 or 0.70
The only elite+merc+horse that doesn't beat Faery is the Halfling/Human. Elf doesn't beat them if you remove horses. The only races to beat them last age were Undead/Orcs (without needing to add in horses/mercs) and Dwarves with max horses and mercs.
Their defense/unit got nerfed so they compensated with the pop boost.
Last edited by Ordray; 01-08-2012 at 19:02.
Retired at one time but no longer retired.
Add onto that there are a lot more offensive bonuses than defensive ones and you have one breakable TM.
I was just about to add that :P
Retired at one time but no longer retired.
you compared the points but not the % of population dedicated to said role. if you take your numbers and give fearies a 20% boost to their def due to the removal of population negatives they still got a buff.
Ie it wasn't unreasonable for a feary to run 12.5 leet/acre now they can run 15/acre with only a small hit to their economy via wages.
Age 54 v 55:
v Avian: 1.14 v 1.2
v Dwarf: = 1.14 V 1.2
v Dwarf: = 1 v 1.032
v Elf: = 1.33 V 1.44
v Elf: = 1.44 V 1.2
v Halfer: = 1.6 V 1.8
v Halfer: = 1.33 V 1.44
v Human: same as halfer
v Orc: = .89 v 1.032
v Orc: = .8 v 0.9
Considering that only elf with horsies got an advantage over the last age.
From my current experience this age, it takes orc/undead warrior OR orc/undead with full horses to break an equal nw feary. That doesnt get easier next age.
Faery just lost their NW efficiency bonus as well, so breaking an equal NW Faery is now easier as well.
Retired at one time but no longer retired.
true a small hit however if you look at it in terms of nw/point of a fully trained feary
fearies take a .07 hit to nw efficiency of defense
While orc also took a .03 nw efficiency hit and goes from +breaking to not breaking.
Not convinced that small nw hit was enough to balance them out.
You guys do too much math - the game isn't static and in the end numbers can never tell the whole story. Calcs has their purpose (as does stuff like "a halfer can counter a faery cause of XXX") but in reality there are too many aspects at the same time for you to calc. The game is dynamic. I cannot prove to you in calcs how good faery are, nor do I really care what you think about faery (it's to my advantage if other kd's don't realize how necesarry they are). My comment was addressed to Bishop/devs in order to affect the currently proposed change.
Also, I think there is WAY too much focus on faery in here - mainly because Palem responds to every post containing the word faery (while still pretending this has nothing to do with TFC;)) and provoking a lot of responses. There are lots of other changes proposed including large changes to game mechanics - I think it would be good if people focused mainly on mechanic changes as that has much more effect over time.
In case it got lost in the spam my proposal remains to, instead of 10% land/honor chosen, give the winning kd a land/honor sum equivalent to 5% of enemy's land/honor both without enemy losing either. For motivation see page 16.
The math there is wrong Faery DPA should be (25-2.5-1-3-7.5)*6+7.5*4 = 96 raw DPA for 96 NW/ANext age
Feary: 25 pop 2.5 tpa 1 wpa 3 ppa 7.5 dpsec/acre
84 raw dpa at a cost of 84 nw/acre
=>1 def/nw
Orc: 25 pop 2.5 tpa 1 wpa 3 ppa 7.5 dpsec/acre
77 raw opa at a cost of 63.25 nw/acre
=>1.217 off/nw
But having a Faery at only 2.5 TPA and 1 WPA is ridiculous. 4-5 TPA/WPA is closer to what a T/M would have. Run 2.5 ds/a for dragon slaying. 69 dpa from elites + 10 dpa from specs = 79 raw dpa for 79 NW/A factoring in only 4 raw TPA/WPA.
Retired at one time but no longer retired.
thats what i get for copying that into note pad as i cant type in this text box at work.
Here let me fix that and yes i didn't count on dspecs for slaying, that wasnt the point, the point was that their nw/acre efficiency didn't drop that hard compared to an orc.
here
Current age:
Feary: 22.5 pop 4 tpa, 4 wpa, 3 ppa
=>11.5 epa => 92 raw dpa at a cost of 86.25 nw/acre
1.0666 def/nw
Orc: 25 pop 2.5 tpa 1 wpa 3 ppa 7.5 dpsec/acre=>
11epa => 99 raw opa at a cost of 79.75 nw/acre
1.241 off/nw
Next age
Feary: 25 pop 4 tpa, 4 wpa, 3 ppa =>14 epa
=> 84 raw dpa at a cost of 84 nw/acre
=>1 def/nw
Orc: 25 pop 2.5 tpa 1 wpa 3 ppa 7.5 dpsec/acre=> 11epa
=> 77 raw opa at a cost of 63.25 nw/acre
=>1.217 off/nw
If I said nothing faery would look like this...
Faery
+10% WPA
+10% TPA
-20% population
No honor bonuses
No offensive specs
1/5 elite. $1500, 275nw
Spellbook: All offensive spells
lol
People over react to faery a lot more than they over react to say Orc, or Avian which looks amazing for next age. I admittedly have a vested interest in Faery and don't want to see it completely dismantled into an absolutely unusable race.
Let's agree that faeries are overpowered, except to those who have a Faery Habit, forget about it and focus on the rest of the changes. It would be good if this wasn't TFC thread!
+1 i approve of that feary
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