You can't hope to attract new players and keep them when you can't get final changes out far enough in advance of an age starting. People these days are used to most other games communicating changes, no matter how small, well in advance of them being deployed to production.
Bashar - This statement is a bit out of line. Grow up.Originally Posted by Bashar
New players normally enter the game having seen the stats for only a couple minutes. I like getting them early, but freeze time is certainly enough time to get what's what. Everyone has same amount of time to look at it before protection starts anyway. Atleast as long as your done with recruiting.
Honor was originally intended as a t/m thing, due to t/ms complaining about how they couldn't compete on the land charts against attackers - this was also when no one wanted to fight in wars.
Province honor is a nub trap for attackers, always has been. I can't understand why heavy attackers get so worked up over their province honor... only on a global kingdom level does honor matter for attackers in the long term.
Again, if people don't want to break Faeries because there are better options, that doesn't make the race OVERPOWERD!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Faeries as they're designed are supposed to be unbreakable. Why do people want to argue about Faeries being OVERPOWERD!?!?!?!?!?!?!? without suggesting a way to make Faeries a viable attacking option? That's the problem, the fact that you have a race that's designed to not get hit - even though they do get hit and can get hit, in war and out. Taking down Faeries is something with a high initial cost, that pays off much later when a kingdom has no provinces safe from attacks and no provinces that are safe from ops.
Is having unbreakable provinces that can op with impunity a good thing for the game? That's the question that should be asked, not trying to make arbitrary nerfs while maintaining Faery's role as a dedicated t/m, making them ineffective at everything. I think it's only a problem with kingdoms running all Faeries... in warring kingdoms, running Faeries is a choice to have a province that can't be touched easily, sacrificing some offensive output for defense. The game shouldn't be a total offense-fest that comes down to who is able to send out their armies faster... that's a boring-ass game, based on the ages where that was the case.
I'll just add 2c on fae topic.
I feel its too hard to op cause of self spells. Tweakin faes mod tpa/wpa is missin the point imo.
Atm its setup as best all round t/m, extreme deff level and almost unopable if played right. Remove Reflect magic, Magic shield and Clear sight from it. It will become suspectable to well played and equaly pumped elfs/halfers in thier respectivge specialty just as its suspectable to well played heavy hitter in theirs.
CS is particulary important as it gets EXTREMELY effective on hight tpa provinces.
Nooblet, you're right. Faeries are designed to be UB, if not UB, better options to attack someone else. If enough wts and tpa is decent, a rogue would find faeries not worth their stealth if failing every other time. While mystics (nonfaery) have no shot and not worthwhile to waste mana trying to fb a faery mystic. And attackers can't break them 24 hrs into war. Those that can, have better options on a hybrid, orc, whatever.
So to sum it up, a race designed to be immune to attackers, rogues, mystics, while sitting there pretty to t/m people to death isn't OP. That was last age, now with 10% pop penalty gone it made them 10% more powerful. What the heck are we flaming about ... don't get it ....
I don't see a viable kingdom without a few faeries. But I can see a kingdom being viable without any other race ... Maybe thats an indicator of how "op" a class is.
Please, let me know if you're a top kingdom and plan on not running a few faeries, I would love to know why ....
Last edited by paulnguyen1229; 05-08-2012 at 22:17.
This is hogwash. Honor/fame was used originally to encourage hitting within nw range rather than bottom feeding which used to be the way to grow. Honor is great for attackers, it just requires a balanced province. It is only a trap if you play in a weak kingdom where you will be singled out for having honor.
No, having provinces that are nearly invincible is not good for the game. This has been stressed repeatedly by most great kingdoms (bio, sanct, rage, ghetto cats, snakes have all said something to the effect). The idea that people wouldn't run t/ms if they could get hit is absolutely absurd. For like 25 of the last 30 ages they were always breakable and people ran them. Wars between equally matched kingdoms are more often decided by ops and Econ advantage than by an attacking advantage. Often being a better attacker just makes you landfat.
At the end of the day it doesn't really affect top kingdoms that much if a race is overpowered other than making the game boring and stale as many run identical set ups. Most good kingdoms can see when a race is overly strong and use it to the best advantage.
Back to halfers
Elves have a +1 defense spec which is a total of five. Halfers have only a four both in elites and spec. Humans, while having the same elite defensive value and four point spec do have an overall increase in population to compensate for it. Halfers do not. Without something, halfers will get crushed all age long.
Now to the op issue. It seems to me we have always had something op in Utopia, some more so than others. Finding that out and concentrating on it is part of the game. It does appear that the devs are trying to bring back more hybrids rather than just heavy attackers and faery T/Ms. It would be interesting if a fast suicider A/T Avian kd could NS an opposing kd down enough quickly enough to win a war. And there are other options.
So, let the strategy begin. It looks like these will be the final changes for races or close to it. The "final" changes will probably be more in the form of "filling in the blanks" about the war/relation system.
Dolgil Rosethorn
If it's broke, fix it.
If it's not, don't.
If you do not like the results, change your methods.
Quit making the same old mistakes. Make new ones.
I was around (sorta) when honor was introduced... it was very much a t/m thing. No one warred then. Outside of a few provinces that could game the honor system to their favor, most attackers were lucky to hold on to any rank.
I remember not too long ago t/ms were considered dead to the game, up until Faery was brought back. This was what, 2-3 years ago? And before that, back when raze destroyed acres and hybrid was nearly impossible to play due to ME being tied to draft rate, t/ms were only barely accepted due to offense levels being somewhat lower than they are now. Faeries were about as breakable then as they will be next age, due to the fundamental offense creep in the game being unchanged. Only issue is that the rest of the server gets doubletapped now as a matter of course, since attackers have way too little defense and offense has gone bananas. Faeries having so much more defense is a consequence of the level of offense creep in the game.No, having provinces that are nearly invincible is not good for the game. This has been stressed repeatedly by most great kingdoms (bio, sanct, rage, ghetto cats, snakes have all said something to the effect). The idea that people wouldn't run t/ms if they could get hit is absolutely absurd. For like 25 of the last 30 ages they were always breakable and people ran them. Wars between equally matched kingdoms are more often decided by ops and Econ advantage than by an attacking advantage. Often being a better attacker just makes you landfat.
I agree that it would be better for Faery's role to be redefined... probably as a turtle attacker with some economic drawbacks, similar to what human is now but with less offense and more t/m power/defense. That would turn off the debate and still leave t/m provinces a possibility. Halfer and Human would have to be tweaked.
Halfers have a 4/5 army...
The Faery thing, they should probably be toned down in ops strength, so that Elf/Halfer have more advantage in damage output, and Faery is relegated to more defense. Something like removing the spell strength bonus, nerfing wpa/tpa to +25%. Then it's a decision to run Faeries that have good defense and reasonable tpa/wpa, or Elf/Halfers that can attack more and have better damage output.
Or just rearrange the races on short notice, and let the chips fall where they may.
Last edited by nooblet; 05-08-2012 at 23:31.
I'd like to see aggression on halflings again to help compensate their short comings vs Elf. Elf has comparable op strength and a slightly stronger front loading army (higher offense, same defense). Halflings have the 2/2 soldiers, but having 3/1 soldiers would make their weaker offense worthwhile by having more durability/sustain during war.
I'd also like to see Faeries toned down their WPA/TPA mods to 15-25%. Having a mod *at all* is VERY strong, because it is compounded with science. Even 15% will make them notably stronger than any other race (barring Elves/Halfers).
Did you even read my post? Comprehension please. I said Fays were not OP but SPELLS were. Thanks for playing. Next contestant please. Not to mention the caps are being raised.
Faeries
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
+ 20% Sabotage damage*
+ 30% WPA and TPA
- 3 generals
Access to All Racial Spells
Elite: 3/6, 800gc, 6NW
Last edited by Azartyn; 06-08-2012 at 00:01.
Yes... are you.
An attacker needs 50% of your defense to break you.
Then one hit causes another, which causes another, which causes another, so on and so forth.
If I were running a normal kd not one spot would be reserved for a TM. TMs are useless, wastes of space. Their best qualities are that they're good honor and land dumps.
faeries (after 12 hours of war) can't be broken in any way. seems a bit imba.
Last edited by br3nt00; 06-08-2012 at 01:02.
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