AMA vs sanct round 2

[AquaSeaFoam]

Yep guard14n,
Elit coordinates with BIO to 2v1/gb Rage and then calls out Rage challenging them in the forums and serves them notice. Rage prepares for Elit and fights him leading to Elit and BIO 2v1ing Rage as they planned. Note how Rage fought the kingdom who noticed them and didn't try and run yet Elit and BIO still 2v1'd using the FW they entered together to protect from the button.

Here Elit gets notice and tries to run by waving someone else instead.

Pointing out such things is obviously not what the Abs haters want known here while they try and claim that Elit and friends are saints.

[DHaran]

Of course they aren't saints, but Abs always tries to act like the better men yet find excuses to double hostile people.

[Elit]

Proteus, ASF propose few pages back to stop bring same old stories every time.
And we didn't wave you after you got wave from bio. All what we did is to retal and i got permission for it from ASF in advance :P
When you trade hits with another kd for 2 days and we full wave you after it, you can say you was doubled.

Yep guard14n,
Elit coordinates with BIO to 2v1/gb Rage and then calls out Rage challenging them in the forums and serves them notice. Rage prepares for Elit and fights him leading to Elit and BIO 2v1ing Rage as they planned. Note how Rage fought the kingdom who noticed them and didn't try and run yet Elit and BIO still 2v1'd using the FW they entered together to protect from the button.

Here Elit gets notice and tries to run by waving someone else instead.

Pointing out such things is obviously not what the Abs haters want known here while they try and claim that Elit and friends are saints.

Drop all lies. We never doubled you age 51. events was this order:

1. we gave you notice.
2. on notice date there was ops from both kds and trade 2 hits from both sides.
3. we had chat in irc and i told you situation is changed and we wont war you. You decide to stop all for 24h. I made it clear its wont change any.
4. Baka was mad on proteus and told many times he will mess with him so 24h later when there no more hits BIO lanch 7 hits on Rage.
5 Rage decide BIO is so small for get gains and full waved us.
6. Only kd in range+free for go in FWr was bio. We asked they agree for FWr.
7. We start retal, and bio made more hits now too.
8. Rage had much better gains from it because had much better sci and gained. Its why you decide to put your kd in 2vs1 situation.

You cant compare this story with situation now. And if you want to bring old stories to make it Fair we need to GB rage for ABS GB us. Do you think its will clear all and you/proteus will stop bring it every time?

[guard14n]

Proteus, ASF propose few pages back to stop bring same old stories every time.
And we didn't wave you after you got wave from bio. All what we did is to retal and i got permission for it from ASF in advance :P
When you trade hits with another kd for 2 days and we full wave you after it, you can say you was doubled.

Almost didnt get a word of what u said mate :D Love ur English :D

[goodz]

As if anyone is saying his notice wasn't legitimate. The double hostile is the issue.

Prot if you notice someone and they then wave someone outside of declare range you still wave them. They know a hostile is coming and shouldn't start another one. If them and sanc had been anywhere near the same size we would have waited.

In the top a notice is essentially a hostile.

Anyway all is done now. We see how goes from here.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Of course they aren't saints, but Abs always tries to act like the better men yet find excuses to double hostile people.

As we all know, there is an unwritten code of honor in the game that has been established, in part at Absalom's promotion of it, to let kingdoms fight fair 1v1 fights. There is nothing about this in the rules and the game initially actually didn't even have any protections or mechanisms to even discourage "non 1v1 play" but these were put in with time mainly at the request of players.

It has never been my belief that "honorable play" was intended to allow kingdoms to dodge such 1v1 fights yet over time this has frequently been exactly the case. Early ages you'd have to be an idiot to wave some other kingdom when you knew another was about to wave you. You would only expose yourself to the one about to wave and receive no protections at all.

After it became widely accepted to let kingdoms fight 1v1, many kingdoms realized "Hey, that kingdom over there that might beat us says they are about to wave us. Let's quick wave some other kingdom and tell them that they are dishonorable if they wave us like they said they were about to."

This was then extended into, "Let's also say we'll never cf the smaller kingdom we waved so that no one can ever wave us without being called dishonorable! We can even explore and pump while having imaginary protection form anyone touching us that we didn't choose ourselves to wave!"

If this mentality is never broken, kingdoms can be impossible for anyone to ever wave all age. A kingdom could keep a semi active ghetto hostile up all age, or simply get notice deals in place and then just initiate said hostile whenever notice is recieved and refuse to ever end it unless they get new notice deals. You can also go straight from one hostile to another, always choosing who you wave and ensuring they are an easy match. No kingdom can ever initiate with you.

1v1 play was never intended to be a means to dodge fair fights and without kingdoms sometimes following through and waving as they said they would, then kingdoms will continue to keep waving someone else whenever they get notice by a kingdom they didn't want to fight. Certainly a line has to be drawn somewhere on this behavior even if you might not agree that this was an appropriate place to draw the line. Havoc felt it was and in this case that is where the decision rested.

[guard14n]

As we all know, there is an unwritten code of honor in the game that has been established, in part at Absalom's promotion of it, to let kingdoms fight fair 1v1 fights. There is nothing about this in the rules and the game initially actually didn't even have any protections or mechanisms to even discourage "non 1v1 play" but these were put in with time mainly at the request of players.

It has never been my belief that "honorable play" was intended to allow kingdoms to dodge such 1v1 fights yet over time this has frequently been exactly the case. Early ages you'd have to be an idiot to wave some other kingdom when you knew another was about to wave you. You would only expose yourself to the one about to wave and receive no protections at all.

After it became widely accepted to let kingdoms fight 1v1, many kingdoms realized "Hey, that kingdom over there that might beat us says they are about to wave us. Let's quick wave some other kingdom and tell them that they are dishonorable if they wave us like they said they were about to."

This was then extended into, "Let's also say we'll never cf the smaller kingdom we waved so that no one can ever wave us without being called dishonorable! We can even explore and pump while having imaginary protection form anyone touching us that we didn't choose ourselves to wave!"

If this mentality is never broken, kingdoms can be impossible for anyone to ever wave all age. A kingdom could keep a semi active ghetto hostile up all age, or simply get notice deals in place and then just initiate said hostile whenever notice is recieved and refuse to ever end it unless they get new notice deals. You can also go straight from one hostile to another, always choosing who you wave and ensuring they are an easy match. No kingdom can ever initiate with you.

1v1 play was never intended to be a means to dodge fair fights and without kingdoms sometimes following through and waving as they said they would, then kingdoms will continue to keep waving someone else whenever they get notice by a kingdom they didn't want to fight. Certainly a line has to be drawn somewhere on this behavior even if you might not agree that this was an appropriate place to draw the line. Havoc felt it was and in this case that is where the decision rested.

The BS king strikes again :) In short u said Ama was scared of havoc and they waved sanc. A statement that has been proven false and one sided :D Sounds about right to use 6 paragraphs esse to say nothing :) Gj BS kingy ;) im a fan u know ! :)

[shakenbridge]

Almost didnt get a word of what u said mate :D Love ur English :D

The BS king strikes again :) In short u said Ama was scared of havoc and they waved sanc. A statement that has been proven false and one sided :D Sounds about right to use 6 paragraphs esse to say nothing :) Gj BS kingy ;) im a fan u know ! :)

I love "ur" english too. If you're going to argue that somebody's grasp of a language is insufficient, you should probably have a grasp of it yourself. I'd say quit while you're ahead, but I don't know if you ever were.

[AquaSeaFoam]

The BS king strikes again :) In short u said Ama was scared of havoc and they waved sanc. A statement that has been proven false and one sided :D Sounds about right to use 6 paragraphs esse to say nothing :) Gj BS kingy ;) im a fan u know ! :)

No, it has not in any way been "proven false" that Elit was trying to use Sanc to dodge notice with Havoc.

When Havoc noticed Elit, his initial response was, "We still don't have re-cf with sanctuary and they have dragon vs us. When its sloved we can get notice."

When Havoc pointed out that their deal did not require Elit to have cf deals with everyone else, just no active hostiles/wars at the time, Elit then quickly waved Sanc. He then again told them their notice was invalid. But the notice deal didn't have anything saying that they had to retract notice if the kingdom they noticed went and waved someone else after getting notice.

As has been said many times, Sanctury has generally made it known including on these forums that they were open to a cf with Elit. havoc told Elit in advance they would notice him as soon as his post war was over (and did.) Elit never made any effort to cf sanc and rejected any cf attempts Sanc made.

I'm not saying Elit was scared of Havoc. I think Elit felt it was a tough fight that wasn't a sure win so he wanted to buy some time to use his stocked up pool and pump on it which would have then made it impossible for Havoc to have any chance. He thought he was going for the "sure thing" by dodging notice to use his pool, but instead he exposed himself to a worse position.

[guard14n]

I love "ur" english too. If you're going to argue that somebody's grasp of a language is insufficient, you should probably have a grasp of it yourself. I'd say quit while you're ahead, but I don't know if you ever were.

Something wrong with my English mate ? If u want we can try several other languages that may make u feel more comfortable :) Let me humor u - tell me exactly whats wrong with it excluding that i use chat words like "ur" "u" etc etc :) Humor me too and tell me pls :)

[Elit]

Again so much talk. When i say we dont had any reason to dodge havoc mean we don't had it. Bet Havoc if sanctuary didn't interfere wont be any hard at all.
Notice is notice and hostile is hostile. We had very intesive hostile with Sanctuary. There is no excuse to wave us in this hostile don't matter what excuses you will use.
How i told already its will be return same way to both kds when its going to hurt them most.

[shakenbridge]

Something wrong with my English mate ? If u want we can try several other languages that may make u feel more comfortable :) Let me humor u - tell me exactly whats wrong with it excluding that i use chat words like "ur" "u" etc etc :) Humor me too and tell me pls :)

You're criticizing somebody for not using the English language properly and then abbreviating a three-letter word? That's what is wrong with your English. If you want to get your point across and have people give a crap about your opinion, you should present it in a way that doesn't make people want to slap you.

[guard14n]

No, it has not in any way been "proven false" that Elit was trying to use Sanc to dodge notice with Havoc.

When Havoc noticed Elit, his initial response was, "We still don't have re-cf with sanctuary and they have dragon vs us. When its sloved we can get notice."

When Havoc pointed out that their deal did not require Elit to have cf deals with everyone else, just no active hostiles/wars at the time, Elit then quickly waved Sanc. He then again told them their notice was invalid. But the notice deal didn't have anything saying that they had to retract notice if the kingdom they noticed went and waved someone else after getting notice.

As far as i recall Elit posted a convo that stated the leader of Mercy agreed to the part that if a war accures they cant notice untill a re-cf was made. And even so the right thing to do was wait and pump rather than double hostile AMA. Any way u look at it the situation was made by u guys and any excuse u make is mute by this point. Sanc DID rob AMA at the time of notice, Havoc knew about the stealing, Sanc did FB/FG and attack ama and there was clear hostile, Havoc did waved AMA regardless, Havoc and Sanc are part of ABS. I smell a dead body in ABS's closet :D

[Palem]

Here's the problem ASF, regardless of all the other facts MA and Sanc were hostile with each other and Havoc waved in. That's a powerplay no matter how you want to try to dice it up.

Did Elit do stupid things? Yes
Did Abs do some scummy things? Yes


The thing I find particularly distressing is that while you 3 kds claim to be in an alliance, you can't seem to control each other. Sanctuary knew Havoc was next in line to take on MA. Let's ignore the stealing for a second and just focus on the hits. If MA waves into Sanc and Havoc waves MA, there's absolutely no issue. MA tried to dodge and failed.

So you have Sanc ignoring Havoc's situation and Havoc ignoring Sanc's hostile. The only reasonable explaination is that Sanc was stalling for Havoc to pump another bank up and then found themselves in a situation they couldn't get out of without things getting messy, which doesn't make Abs look any better.

[AquaSeaFoam]

As far as i recall Elit posted a convo that stated the leader of Mercy agreed to the part that if a war accures they cant notice untill a re-cf was made.

No, you're mistaken on that. Elit thought that this was the case at first, but when the logs were examined it was not the case and the notice was valid.