Debauchery...

[flutterby]

Even so, when it comes time to prove my guilt, those signs would be shown. Where are the specifications about what is and isn't a fake war?

EDIT: nvm, I guess Bishop decides what is OK and what isn't, depending on his mood (which is mostly grumpy)

Bishop is never grumpy with me but.. unlike you I can admit when I'm wrong. <3

No offense Bishop can you tell us what rules we broke and so we and the whole utopian community knows what can/can not be done in this game with a link thank you,and i did remember even past kingdoms who so called "faked" war were only removed of their previous win,but you took the step of removing all our wins,so can i say that our previous 7 wars were fake wars?

Bishop has this wonderful phrase... it goes something like... if you question whether something is legal or not... just assume it's not. Every other kingdom in the game knows what constitutes as a fake war. As for the wars being taken away, be glad the whole kingdom wasn't deleted or that accounts weren't banned.

[Pillz]

Then the war against ED was fake as well, and they should suffer the same punishment as Debauchery

Why? Debauchery was caught in a fake war. The monarchs of both kingdoms were deleted. Debauchery obviously orchestrated this fake war with the goal of winning the War Win crown in mind. There is no telling which wars of their were or were not rigged, and thus the fairest course of action is to remove all their wins.

Although I completely disagree with this bull**** policy, and Korp is a flake for siding with Bishop.

[Palem]

Last time I remember a kd being actioned for fake warring they lost all their war wins. I think it was 7 that they gathered from having someone create a random prov and give them the button.

[Zauper]

Then the war against ED was fake as well, and they should suffer the same punishment as Debauchery

This is ok, we'll let you delete parth. He likes that kind of punishment <3

SillyRabbit: The issue with defining what a fake war is or isn't, is that then you have people abusing the definition because they find a way around it. It's like georgette said; you know one when you see one.

I guess I should ask you this: what defines a war, in your mind?

[SillyRabbit]

I like how Zauper has finally gotten active. Once we won the war, he disappeared. Then we get a prov deleted and he is all of a sudden the active troll he once was

[peteyb22]

I would be astonished if anywhere close to 100% of the war wins that currently sit on kingdom's pages came from those kingdoms just having straight up wars and then at some point the opposing kingdom suddenly decides "Ok, let's withdraw".

Be astonished... 5/6 WW, all 5 of those wins were exactly as you just described. And our loss was the same way for our side.

[anti-fun]

So can i have "every other kingdom in the game" tell us what constitutes a fake war? So much stuff being talked here but nothing concrete was being talked bout what constitutes a fake war.

[flutterby]

You could, or you could just use common sense. Either way it looks like it's going to be a challenge for you.

[THX1912]

Why? Debauchery was caught in a fake war. The monarchs of both kingdoms were deleted. Debauchery obviously orchestrated this fake war with the goal of winning the War Win crown in mind. There is no telling which wars of their were or were not rigged, and thus the fairest course of action is to remove all their wins.

Although I completely disagree with this bull**** policy, and Korp is a flake for siding with Bishop.

1st: they already had a 2win lead in the rankings before that war. Why orchestrate a fake war when they had the crown already?

2nd: If bishop could dig evidence to prove one was fake, why couldn't he do it for all the others?

Last time I remember a kd being actioned for fake warring they lost all their war wins. I think it was 7 that they gathered from having someone create a random prov and give them the button.

Yeah, they used someone to infiltrate other KDs, all their wars were rigged, and all wins were deleted. Makes sense. Debauchery's lost doesn't. They didn't just loose all wins, they lost all wars!! It's not 0/8, it's 0/0!

[Zauper]

I like how Zauper has finally gotten active. Once we won the war, he disappeared. Then we get a prov deleted and he is all of a sudden the active troll he once was

I like how you can't answer the question.

If it helps, I just got back from vacation (last night, around 4 PM) after working 4 straight 80+ hour weeks prior.

[pmyraje]

Be astonished... 5/6 WW, all 5 of those wins were exactly as you just described. And our loss was the same way for our side.

Well ok, when the other ~300 kingdoms all confirm the same while keeping a straight face and hastily hiding their IRC logs then I'll be astonished. I didn't mean I'll be astonished if one kingdom can popup and say all their wins were from wars without any terms.

[Bishop]

Oh look, the "make rules explicit so we can avoid them on technicalities" argument.

No, instead you should cop yourselves on.

Well ok, when the other ~300 kingdoms all confirm the same while keeping a straight face and hastily hiding their IRC logs then I'll be astonished. I didn't mean I'll be astonished if one kingdom can popup and say all their wins were from wars without any terms.

This thread isn't about ~300 other kingdoms and what they may or may not have done.

[Alazne]

I am feeling very strange about all this. On the one hand, I am glad it happened, on the other I am sorry for Debauchery, because it looks to me that you were a truly good warring kingdom (could beat very good kds) but were silly enough to make too many mistakes thinking "everybody does this" (this is what I understand reading pmyraje), and while too many eyes were set on you.

Have you read my thread "ww and honor in good state now"? I don't know of your kingdom, but some of the kingdoms you beat have beaten mine and I've considered them very clean kingdoms. Well, do you know what a coincidence? When I was writing that thread, it seems that your kingdom from inside a war was stealing lots of gold from my kingdom in eowcf. I didn't know because after being stolen 300,000 gold I told him that I had read some people steal, he was still confident that could not happen (yes, some people are not thinking others will play dirty), and maybe that's why he didn't want me to know when he got stolen LOTS of gold.

I mean, I could be delusional thinking war kingdoms play clean, but perhaps in the end it was you who were delusional thinking they play dirty and that's the way to do things and that took you to your last little mistake (that's what it looks to me).

I don't know Bob.




More clear: my kingdom has always be defenseless in eowcf trusting others will respect their time to recover, and it has to be YOUR KINGDOM, the hero of war wins, that spoils that idea from them and steal millions. Nobody else had done it before. This is to make you see that not everybody plays dirty.

[DHaran]

If you don't have the common sense to understand why trading acres for a win is a problem, we can't help you.

[pmyraje]

I should clarify, I'm not in Debauchery, but I am in the kingdom they warred which I can't be bothered to scroll up to remember how to spell! In general deletion of the monarch is a fairly just punishment for breaking clear rules. From my first hand knowledge of the war and its progress it doesn't massively surprise me that our war was interpreted that way. The definition of "fake" certainly surprises me, but I guess that has evolved over the years. Used to be a fake war meant no hits or carefully coordinated weak hits rather than lots of attacks, but with a change of war strategy half way through. Our monarch getting deleted is a shame for him and it was a blow to our kingdom, but it's end of age and he'll be back next age wise enough to hopefully avoid even going near the murky line of opinion as to what counts as a "fake war".

Agreeing terms beforehand is just generally bad and I'm not going to pretend I wasn't pee'd off when I arrived home from work to find we were suddenly in war with the kingdom we'd all agreed to definitely not war the previous time I was logged on, but the idea that the terms of the war were any different from those of a huge number of wars is conveniently naive. Whether their monarch promised ours we would gain acres or whether he made our monarch think that just so we'd agree to war or whether it wasn't discussed at all or what exact "terms" were discussed I have no idea. All I know is it was an odd war, but from the perspective of a province taking part in the war and ending it 50,000 peasants short of max pop and down a large number of troops the term "fake" is amusing to say the least!

I am happy with the "I know it if I see it" argument if it were true and people "see" any pre-war terms as being "fake". Sadly they don't. And we know that perfectly well because the kids keep changing their KD names to things like "War agreed. STFO" (funny how today there are no kingdoms advertising their fake-ness quite so obviously!)