CR vs AMA

[Nightmare_]

Fancy words for the KD that took 15k acres and then leave thier allies to get declared by AMA before a deal is made. Its like leaving a man behind in war to bleed out while you proceed to pump the acres you gained in GB to proceed and try to crown. No one else here took acres and left thier friends to die in war vs AMA. You can clearly see that RBL did not have range to fight AMA and needs help til a deal is reached. You pulling out was the most stupid move that could been made if you ask me and you should remove all those acres that you gained, no kd should ever gain in a GB. Talk about greedy self interest to crown. Its also worse when Rusty, Simians and RBL moved in to make the crown race fair for Pyro and CR. You decide to just **** on the KDs that saved your asses, i guess its all fine when you accomplished what you came for. Leave your allies to die and go pump.

But thats just my personal pov

Some of the comments you've made are justified, and I can't comment about those because I don't make the final decisions, but I will just address some of the questions/comments I have.

Apparently, after Pyros stopped hits for 12h and expressed some doubts, you approached Proteus with the proposal of cfing AMA (the KD you are gbing) and gbing Pyros instead. Please explain your rationale for this.
As far as the KDs that "saved [our] asses," Pyros wasn't the KD in trouble; Havoc was.

From what I've seen, the "Fair Play" Alliance demanded that AMA give complete concessions, with no room for compromise (even though both seem in the wrong here). The proposal that did end up being offered was merely for show, because the alliance knew elit would never agree to the offer. If you disagree with this, please explain the rationale behind making an offer that you knew would have no possibility of being agreed to or compromised upon. In my point of view, it was already assumed that elit would not take the offer, and you would just gb all of AMA's provinces under the guise of "they didn't accept our compromise".

[ABSLover]

Fancy words for the KD that took 15k acres and then leave thier allies to get declared by AMA before a deal is made. Its like leaving a man behind in war to bleed out while you proceed to pump the acres you gained in GB to proceed and try to crown. No one else here took acres and left thier friends to die in war vs AMA. You can clearly see that RBL did not have range to fight AMA and needs help til a deal is reached. You pulling out was the most stupid move that could been made if you ask me and you should remove all those acres that you gained, no kd should ever gain in a GB. Talk about greedy self interest to crown. Its also worse when Rusty, Simians and RBL moved in to make the crown race fair for Pyro and CR. You decide to just **** on the KDs that saved your asses, i guess its all fine when you accomplished what you came for. Leave your allies to die and go pump.

But thats just my personal pov

LOL! The Real Reason for the GB slowly starting to come out!

[ABSLover]

Hi guys,

Just a quick update for those that have missed it. Pyromaniacs has decided to pull out of this gb fairplay alliance abut 8-9hrs ago. This was a very tough and challenging to make, and we only made it after very thorough consideration among our council and sources close to our hearts. It is more important to do the right thing, than the easy thing. Please allow me to explain in short detail to why we have taken this stance.

Pyromaniacs do not condone dealbreaking and ****play. This is our rationale when we first joined in the GB on AMA. What AMA did is not right, they do admit it. And they know they will get GB. We worked together with Rage, Simians, CR and Rusty to 'punish' this dealbreak. This was done with CR declaring on AMA, and then we did external hits/razes. Till the end of war, the group managed to pk 5 provinces and severely hurt 2 others.

During the course of action, there were several people from different kingdomsthat came to talk to Nesta & Myself (not AMA members) and stated that it is fine to join in the GB, but there is such stuff as overdoing things. And adviced us to watch how much damage is being done. We acknowledge such input from outside parties.

When the war ended, Nesta & myself had a talk with each other, and we felt that there is enough punishment done to AMA and we also knew that CR isnt totally right in this situation (be it suspected razing of ama cows many days ago(which I personally feel may not be true) or threathening to 2v1 and hitting into any ama's hostile). We looked at AMA and saw 5 provinces dead and 2 close to being dead, and we see that there's an opportunity to do proper diplo with AMA. After spending some time on negotiations, Nesta finally managed to get a deal with AMA but this wasnt to the group's liking. The group then mentioned several ending scenarios that they would like to see to happen to AMA, and Nesta&myself do not agree on those stance.

We felt that the purpose of this group is to advocate against dealbreaking and to make a stance against it. However, Pyros do not feel that the group is in that direction anymore. Pyros feel tha the direction of the group is no longer heading towards the fairplay direction, and hence we made a decision to pull out.

These are the reasons why we decided to bow out and stay neutral.

PS: Unfortunately, Pyros was not able to take down AMA's cows as we were following advice and instruction from the group on what hits to make. We were told not to hit the two big cows.

Nice Post. The question is: What you gonna do with the Acres Gained from the GB?

[Minty]

Pyros has said multiple times that they were willing to raze their acres gained. The question is if Pyros raze their acres, should havoc? Will Pyros just hand over the crown to havoc if they choose to raze and havoc wont? It's not as easy as saying lets raze all those acres. There has to be diplomacy between havoc and pyros.

[Nightmare_]

Nice Post. The question is: What you gonna do with the Acres Gained from the GB?

I will be frank with you and say that, razing down or not razing down has its own complications. If it were me, I would raze down. However, it's not quite so simple because it would imbalance the Havoc vs. Pyro conflict, and some people will not agree. Whether Pyros deserves to war Havoc on even ground is another matter that is open to debate.

It should also be noted that Pyros volunteered to raze their acres down and opt out of the alliance. Seems reasonable (depending on who you speak to), but the general response from "Fair Play" was that Pyros would be regarded as traitors for leaving anyway, and it was consequently discarded as an option.

[Anri]

Some of the comments you've made are justified, and I can't comment about those because I don't make the final decisions, but I will just address some of the questions/comments I have.

Apparently, after Pyros stopped hits for 12h and expressed some doubts, you approached Proteus with the proposal of cfing AMA (the KD you are gbing) and gbing Pyros instead. Please explain your rationale for this.
As far as the KDs that "saved [our] asses," Pyros wasn't the KD in trouble; Havoc was.

From what I've seen, the "Fair Play" Alliance demanded that AMA give complete concessions, with no room for compromise (even though both seem in the wrong here). The proposal that did end up being offered was merely for show, because the alliance knew elit would never agree to the offer. If you disagree with this, please explain the rationale behind making an offer that you knew would have no possibly of being agreed to or compromised upon. In my point of view, it was already assumed that elit would not take the offer, and you would just gb all of AMA's provinces under the guise of "they didn't accept our compromise".

Remove the acres gained or have them removed by force/gb. Yes, i stated this and i stand up for it!

I stated many times over we are willing to discuss terms with Elit if he has a sitt-down with us all. I was deeply annoyed yesterday when Pyro makes dip on the side because AMA threatens them and their lobbyist worked you over. I know damn well how it works when they send diplomats over you work on the weakest link in the group to have them crumble and give in. They totaly got to you there. By the looks to me you sell your allies and other kds involved short and was only in it for self interests to crown. You guys 15 uniques worth of razes and hitted for land most of the time, on banks etc, instead of hit targets you should have hit with razes in the mid-core section that now is the reason they could even declare RBL. On top of all of this you leave your friends to rott, the crown must shine very hard. This is yet another reason to why the entire top should just self-die and i agree with Elit that none deserves to win. Most certainly not Pyromaniacs. If you had hit like you should with razes only and made it hard it had been easier for everyone to just walk out. AMA would not been able to declare RBL and the pure force itself would probably have ended this sooner and maybe we could have made a deal. I hold you accountable in Pyromaniacs for many things that gone bad, but i must say i have not seen a bigger backstab by allies since Elit twisted his knife in Simians back. You have no ethics to fight along side your brothers. I feel so bad for RBL right now and they are even my own enemy.

[Soul_Hunter]

I suggest we let Simians win.

[Anri]

I suggest we let Simians win.

I suggest we give all acres to your province SoulHunter, all acres in t10

[Palem]

Remove the acres gained or have them removed by force/gb. Yes, i stated this and i stand up for it!

RBL too?

[DonJuan]

I personally think that razing/land dropping is counter productive but if Havoc is willing raze the same "dirty acres" they received then there should be no problem in the name of "fair play" ... I would suggest both parties keep it since it would end in the same result (similar size) and waste many days of arguing

[Anri]

I personally think that razing/land dropping is counter productive but if Havoc is willing raze the same "dirty acres" they received then there should be no problem in the name of "fair play" ... I would suggest both parties keep it since it would end in the same result (similar size) and waste many days of arguing

How is Havocs acres dirty? AMA dealbroke them and waved them, they took back what was thiers from the start.

[Anri]

RBL too?

RBL got declared and AMA knew gb was ongoing so they cant be expected to raze in war and they gotta fight ofc

[jjofdenmark]

It's funny the reactions to us pulling out is what we'll do with those lowsy acres. Says more about how things are done for acres in the top over what is right and fair and how this game should be played. Pulling out can, as you might see on the reactions, cost us. So be it.

@Arni: You claim we leave you hanging?!? You know of the deal Nesta made and you turned it down. So don't even start on who left who hanging! Turning down that says everything about the agenda here! I'm happy and proud that Our leadership decided to pull out and now ever more proud to serve them! As as for saving our asses .. Hmm .. We don't really feel that much saved more that screwed over. We were indeed looking forward to a good fight vs AMA. That was fracked up due to the dealbrek. We have been cheated from a good fight before. But when it's done with a dealbreak that could make the whole dealmaking worthless and the top a ticking timebomb .. well ... We felt we had to take part of stabilizing that. I think it is fair to make deals again at some point. Overdoing it however ......

As for the acres. We were to war AMA before all of this started. So for the past week all we have gained are those lowsy 15K acres. The alternative would have been either a WW bonus and war acres or a royal ***** slapping from AMA and quite less acres. How things turned out those acres however lost their value, since they might be a small way to the crown noone wanna touch after this whole drama.

[ABSLover]

How is Havocs acres dirty? AMA dealbroke them and waved them, they took back what was thiers from the start.

So you saying Havoc can keep the acres while Pyro should raze since they backstabbed your fake fair play alliance?

Everyone was right! You are funny guy!

[Anri]

Ok, proceed and remove the acres and i might acctually beleive you