CR vs AMA

[jjofdenmark]

You left the GB in the name of fairness, but you joined the GB not in the name of fairness but the name of CR allows you acres and a war. As you said those acres are fair in alining you with CR, so you couldn't do it just for fair play. Simians was mad prior to you leaving, you can read back in this thread. Im sure more were upset behind the scenes but wanted to show a united front. AMA is a bear, and you realized you didn't have to out run the bear you just had to out run the people you were hiking with.

Well ... I guess .. and need to emphasize that I have no freaking clue, that us helping out in this shouldn't weaken us much if a war was to take place within a few weeks after this show is over. We did as stated not join this fair play action to gain acres (yes we got an arrangement to get those acres, but that was not the reason we started the fairplay thing in the first place). As I have pointed out we could have gained more and been in a way better shape if we hadn't. That does however not mean we're complete idiots and help CR restore completely and come out even stronger than they were before dealbreak and us even weaker.

And as for leaving hickers. C'mon! One of the hickers was a huge bear itself! Nesta made a freaking deal with the now quite wounded bear to back of for the rest of the age and leave all the hickers. But since some of the hickers had a need to kick it in the balls and leave when it was completely smached, we said go ahead, but we're out of here. It's better to make a deal with a wounded bear that can still walk away, than start kicking a wounded bear in the nuts. They tend to bite back! And they more you kick and remove it's ability to walk away, the harder it will bite! So yes. The hickers should have left with us in peace instead of insisting to kick bear balls.

[faegan]

You left the GB in the name of fairness, but you joined the GB not in the name of fairness but the name of CR allows you acres and a war. As you said those acres are fair in alining you with CR, so you couldn't do it just for fair play. Simians was mad prior to you leaving, you can read back in this thread. Im sure more were upset behind the scenes but wanted to show a united front. AMA is a bear, and you realized you didn't have to out run the bear you just had to out run the people you were hiking with.

I think the answer to why we were taking acres is in cJ or NesTa post up there somewhere.

[TheOne]

Pyro is backing out and going for crown now?
That is low... I don't think anyone can go lower than them now

Read page 90-110, I'm sure you will gain some insight on why we did so. Or if you're a little too busy, let me summarise for you in a few sentences. Nesta & Me disapproves of AMA's dealbreak on CR and hence joined the Fair Play Alliance to condone against this. We took part and show our stance that we do not agree with it. When AMA WD from CR war, Nesta & Me felt that the direction of th group wasnt towards fairplay anymore, but for another agenda. 5PKs + 2 severely crippled provinces already (and the numers are rising now). And with numerous sentiments and words said in the alliance channel. In addition, we managed to get a CF which AMA which we felt were fair, but the group didnt aree to it (though 12hrs after we left, they were looking to close the exact same deal again)

See http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...8#post15280918 for detailed explaination.

Does this mean that we are low? It is up to you to interpret on that. I would say that we did not make the easy choice (of which to continue bashing AMA w/ no proper agenda) but made the right/harder choice of which will potentially get us hated on

So why is pyro 6k larger than CR?

First, let me refer you to http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...8#post15281218 . It states the terms that all kingdoms that joined the alliance had to agree, which I will paste here again.

1) Havoc wars AMA. Only Pyro/Havoc are free to use all attacks. (As agreed by Parth/topsy). Others MUST Raze or bounce/massacre all hits into the war.
2) Havoc razes down to equal size of Pyro during eowcf after they have taken land bonus (Regardless on amount of acres gained in the war)
3) Pyro / Havoc are free to hit each other 96 hours after eowcf with AMA/Havoc has passed. This gives both kds 8 days preparation time which will start from the eow msg. Havoc must inform Pyro as soon as the war has ended. The 8 days start when AMA has WD from the war.
4) Any kingdom helping out in the gb is entitled to an EOACF with havoc or a 96 hour notice CF with Havoc. The kingdoms helping get to choose which deal they would prefer. The notice if 96 hours is chosen can't be given in war/eowcf or BEFORE Havoc vs pyro war takes place.

2) clearly shows that the group was agree-able on Havoc and Pyros ending on the same size, in fact, if Pyros were larger at the end of the war, we dont need to raze down acres. However, we were honourable enough to not take advantage of this 'loophole' and matched TMs with CRs gains (and also did our part of the razes) so that we end up on the same acres as CR post war. Maxi+Topsy also said it would be good if they didnt need to raze any acres.

After we decided to pull out of the gb group for reasons stated above (or see http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...8#post15280918), we are not going to lay around doing nothing and let our horny armies wait and rot. Nor are we going to let our explore pool decay....

Getting fun~! but I think Pyro won't get out unscathed from their cowardly action.

Wonder what they will do to Pyro

If the group thinks that we did something wrong, unfortunately, Nesta & Myself and most of the kingdom do not think so... So if the group intends to do something bad on Pyros, I hope that they at least decide on that only after the dust have settled, and then see things clearly again... and if they still hate us, then #YOLO!

Yea, I am not involved in any of it. I just curious why Pyro said they would raze down to size and now have even backed out of that :)

"You see, their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other."

I dont know who have you heard saying that we will raze down in acres, maybe some Pyromaniacs Minions (Despicable Me EE OHH EYEE ORHHH!) posted in forums that we would, but as far as I am concerned, there was no explicit promise that was binded to us razing down our acres. However, please see the below

For those that said Pyros agreed to raze those acres gained:, you are trying to spin a story that we agreed to raze before joining the conflict. these are the terms that all kingdoms that joined the alliance had to agree

1) Havoc wars AMA. Only Pyro/Havoc are free to use all attacks. (As agreed by Parth/topsy). Others MUST Raze or bounce/massacre all hits into the war.
2) Havoc razes down to equal size of Pyro during eowcf after they have taken land bonus (Regardless on amount of acres gained in the war)
3) Pyro / Havoc are free to hit each other 96 hours after eowcf with AMA/Havoc has passed. This gives both kds 8 days preparation time which will start from the eow msg. Havoc must inform Pyro as soon as the war has ended. The 8 days start when AMA has WD from the war.
4) Any kingdom helping out in the gb is entitled to an EOACF with havoc or a 96 hour notice CF with Havoc. The kingdoms helping get to choose which deal they would prefer. The notice if 96 hours is chosen can't be given in war/eowcf or BEFORE Havoc vs pyro war takes place.

1)+2) clearly shows that we dont need to raze any acres. In fact, like I mentioned earlier, we could have easily nett 30+k acres (instead of ~13k) if we just trad all the way. And we only did 4 cow hits (deep into war protection, for a total of ~2.9k acres i think. or less).. and the reason why AMA still has those banks is because CR instructed us to focus on razing killing provs+hitting elves.

If you want to say that we agreed to raze acres, you should at least STATE that it was mentioned at around 8-9hrs before we officially pulled out, and that is not a certainty given how things have panned out during the next 8-9hrs and external advice we have received. And that was mentioned at the point in time and then we decided to continue razing for another 8-9hrs before we pulled out.

At least get your timings right + facts right before stating things, because as far as I can see, people are painting that Pyros agreed to raze acres at the start

-cJ

I respect Pyro's decission to step out of the GB due to Ama/pb having suffered enough, but I can't respect leaving your buddies hanging like that. You enter a GB with x number of KDs, so you fight with them until the situation has been resolved. You can't leave the others with open relations vs ama, well knowing they will get declared on. You gained 13-14k off the backs of Ama, leave your GB party prematurely, keep and pump into your new GB acres. Thats not fair to anyone, and I doubt you will get on amas good side cuz you already gbed them + gained a ****ton of their acres.

We dont need to get on AMA's good side :) Nor do we need to make decisions that would get into everyone's good books if we do not think it is fair.

I see Pyro have at lest one smart person.

That person is called cJ

Pyro only helped when they were allowed to TM into the war and gain acres. When they were told they were to Raze AMA's banks they swiftly backed out the GB.

Not true. Review the timeline of things that happened over the past few days.

Why does AMA like pyro so much? Giving 4 big cow hits and now CF. If pyro war CR, CR needs to be 15k or smaller or AMA will raze into war? Also 'saves' them from simians early age?

Wasent pyro with PP and CR in this preage anti-AMA alliance? Or did cJ lick enuff AMA ass over the last week or so?

I am not a prostitute. And I will repeat myself again, I still think AMA dealbreaking was wrong, but the fairplay alliance direction was not in the direction of fairplay anymore, and hence we pulled out of it after the group rejected a CF deal which we felt was fair to both parties.

A lowsy 12-13k acres on your cows. Seriously? That is 1 free cow. How many acres did Simians and RBL get? CR back to where they were 2 weeks prior. (But with no cows instead of the 3 best cows on the server)

Honestly I was quite sour on the Pyros early this age. I thought them very nub, but that was a mistake. They understand the BS and ****play required to win a crown and they are going all out at it. It seems everyone enjoys the game of thrones mentality.

From what Nesta counted, we nett 12.9k acres from TMs when we hit into conflict. This is nothing for a middle-late age war. And as mentioned above, we were allowed to do TMs into the war + razes.

These 12.9k acres are NOT all cow acres. We nett about 3k+ of calf/cow acres on 5 calves, and we only did 4 calf/cow htis.

1. Simians got no acres/resources, but they got to tear AMA a new one
2. RBL gained ~3.5k acres on their cow and a war win
3. CR got to stay in top 5 with the promiss of an "Age winning War" with PyroManiaCs
4. PyroManiaCs got to keep 13k acres

With the exception of #2 above, all was part of the initial FPA goal.

Again, if PyroManiaCs had stayed out, could AMA really be stopped?

More disclaimer: above only my personal viewpoint

More More disclaimer: His viewpoint, which is unfortunately not accurate :(

-------------

And lastly, I would like to add that Pyromaniacs do not restrict our EEEE ORHHs from posting in the forums. Whoring is boring sometimes, and there needs to be some forum trolling+keyboard warring... However, unless the post comes from Nesta or Myself, they DO NOT represent the kingdom's view. Our council members (which I'mt thinking if there's any consequences if we reveal who they are..) do post once in a while, and their comments also holds some weight. Of course, our core members posts do hold weight too.


PS: Sorry for being fking rude in this post, but I just came back from a v.bad golf game.


-cJ

[Band of Horses]

Do some math on how much it would cost to put 1500 acres on your largest province. Do some more for 1300 and 1000 on cows 4 and 5. Those are extremely expensive acres to get, and now look at CR the huge disadvantage they have with the loss of their cows and you getting these free cow acres.

This shows me another graph that isnt usefull. I can see a bunch of cows being launched and both cows and core gaining acres in the GB.

Show me a graph that shows our cows gained all the acres instead of useless graphs that doesnt show this.

You have good graph reading ability. You can also read my previous post here quoted.

Side note, you should actually study these graphs that you see as not useful. You can learn a lot about whoring from them, I suggest looking at the CR one especially early age and how they put the cows up ect.

[Band of Horses]

Dear CJ,

Sorry to hear about your bad golf game. Golf > Utopia always!

4,000 on 4 cows (12 got screwed only got 200 acres) is what I am seeing. just for reference.

[Jazen]

cJ gotta stop playing golf! More Utopia less Golf! Golf = Drinking = bad decisions... therefore no golf.

[jjofdenmark]

Dear CJ,

Sorry to hear about your bad golf game. Golf > Utopia always!

4,000 on 4 cows (12 got screwed only got 200 acres) is what I am seeing. just for reference.

Well. Arni got to screw AMA over. That is in his book worth more acres than any KD has ever taken in the history of Utopia ;-)

[Folle]

You have good graph reading ability. You can also read my previous post here quoted.

Side note, you should actually study these graphs that you see as not useful. You can learn a lot about whoring from them, I suggest looking at the CR one especially early age and how they put the cows up ect.

And you seem unable to provide proof that cows gained "A lowsy 12-13k acres on your cows.".

Guess its not just me who cant find that info on those graphs.

Note: From what I can tell, Pyro have the biggest overall kd and the best cows as well. Maybe you should learn from Pyro instead of trying to sound smart? But then again, I might be really bad a reading charts as well...

[Palem]

Golf = Drinking = bad decisions... therefore no golf.

...I don't follow your line of reasoning...

[faegan]

=Elit]Originally Posted by Elit
I see Pyro have at lest one smart person.

That person is called cJ

Wrong. I have a +1 from Proteus, which beats your +1 of Elit, because Proteus >> Elit. Therefor if there is one smart person in Pyro, it's me.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[Elit]

Wrong. I have a +1 from Proteus, which beats your +1 of Elit, because Proteus >> Elit. Therefor if there is one smart person in Pyro, it's me.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

So much Spam from pyro n00bs. Can you limit your posting :P

[Palem]

This thread is at 129 pages. No point in limiting posting now...

[TommyB]

Note: From what I can tell, Pyro have the biggest overall kd and the best cows as well. Maybe you should learn from Pyro instead of trying to sound smart?

Congratulations, that is really awesome. Are you going to give Utopia 101 classes anytime soon?

[Chrystal Palace]

this is a war game. so maybe we should look at it from the war side of things. an alliance went in to a country to fix a problem. this country refuses to back down and keeps fighting. yet one main force of the alliance brokered a deal not for the alliance as a whole but to help out their own agenda. so to me this AMA now has a friend in pyro. will pyro become aligned with elit? will pyro try and screw over #teamBEN? who are pyros outside consultants? why did an ally break from the alliance if the hostile country is still fighting?

[Palem]

This is a strategy game, not a war game.